Ebay vintage engine sales

[MtB]

How well would a radiator-cooled system work in the confined space of an engine room?

 

Remove the radiator and connect the pipes to one's skin tank. virtually no extra work when fitting it into a NB.

[Jrtm]

Few bukh dv20 on ebay with boxes and even a 4lw gardener going quite cheap i thought

1k for each engine

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/BUKH-DV20-Marine-Diesel-Engine-/282305383232?nav=SEARCH

 

There is another but dirty but at 1k

 

4lw

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gardner-4LW-marine-engine-and-gearbox-/122289696811?nav=SEARCHif sell at that will be very cheap

[Jrtm]

 

 

 

Thanks BBB

 

Gosh that looks a bargain at £1700 as already has a marine transmission fitted (the hard bit).

 

 

 

Lister FR2

No probs hasnt got electric start though

[MtB]

No probs hasnt got electric start though

 

Good point.

 

Mind you, a ring gear can be purchased, the flywheel machined and the gear heat-shrunk on. And a starter purchased and a bracket fabricated. Probably cost about £3k...

[alan_fincher]

 

Remove the radiator and connect the pipes to one's skin tank. virtually no extra work when fitting it into a NB.

 

Assumes one has a skin tank, though!

 

(2 boats, zero skin tanks!)

[MtB]

 

Assumes one has a skin tank, though!

 

(2 boats, zero skin tanks!)

 

 

True, but most boats have skin tanks. Not particularly difficult to convert the FR2 to raw water cooling even if purchased by someone remiss enough to have forgotten to have skin tanks fitted last time their boat was docked for major repairs...

[alan_fincher]

 

 

True, but most boats have skin tanks. Not particularly difficult to convert the FR2 to raw water cooling even if purchased by someone remiss enough to have forgotten to have skin tanks fitted last time their boat was docked for major repairs...

 

Would it necessarily be true that most narrow boats with something like an FR2 in have skin tanks?

 

Serious question, I don't actually know the answer to.

 

I guess nearly all "modern builds" with "vintage" water cooled engines do, but how many genuine ex working boats have actually had skin tanks fitted?

 

My feeling is that in something like a GUCCCo boat still with engine room and original fuel tanks it would be a fairly massive retrofit. I don't know of any that have, though I'm sure there must be some.

 

All the arrangements for water cooling and mud boxes are long since gone from both out boats, so I rather appreciate the fact that both have air cooled engines.

[MtB]

 

Would it necessarily be true that most narrow boats with something like an FR2 in have skin tanks?

 

Serious question, I don't actually know the answer to.

 

 

Nor do I.

 

The FR2 doesn't strike me as the sort of engine that a cargo carrying NB would have been powered by anyway. Were they widely used in riveted iron motors carrying cargos for a living? I suspect not, and more likely fitted into boats at the end of their carrying days. Camping boats etc. I think I've only ever seen an FR2 in a fabricated steel stern.

[Athy]

 

 

Nor do I.

 

The FR2 doesn't strike me as the sort of engine that a cargo carrying NB would have been powered by anyway. Were they widely used in riveted iron motors carrying cargos for a living? I suspect not, and more likely fitted into boats at the end of their carrying days. Camping boats etc. I think I've only ever seen an FR2 in a fabricated steel stern.

I think they were introduced only about 1954, so towards the end of the mass carrying era, yes.

[alan_fincher]

 

 

Nor do I.

 

The FR2 doesn't strike me as the sort of engine that a cargo carrying NB would have been powered by anyway. Were they widely used in riveted iron motors carrying cargos for a living? I suspect not, and more likely fitted into boats at the end of their carrying days. Camping boats etc. I think I've only ever seen an FR2 in a fabricated steel stern.

 

 

I think they were introduced only about 1954, so towards the end of the mass carrying era, yes.

 

I also doubt they found much, if any, use in carrying days, although I'm sure some have found their way into ex-working boats since.

 

Even JPs I don't think would have been found too often before long distance carrying ended in 1970, but large numbers are fitted now. I don't recall ever seeing one other than raw water cooled in an ex working-boat.

 

Most of the mass re-engining of the 1950s & 1960s carried out by BW was with air cooled Petters or Armstrong Siddeleys, (the latter marinised by Parsons, and marketed as such).

 

Even the now ubiquitous air-cooled Lister H series engines were I think little used before 1970, although all the 3 final motors that Blue Line replaced wooden motors with in the late 1960s all had HA2s or HA3s. Flamingo acquired a reconditioned HA2 in 1968, but, by then, like the Blue Line boats, would only be in regular trade for a couple more years.

 

One source quotes these Lister Production dates....

 

JP 1930 - 1952

FR 1954 - 1964

HA/HB 1958 - 1970

 

Others give slight variations to this, but all are within a year or so of each other, I think

[BEngo]

BW replaced the Josher Bolinders, mainly in the N orthern Fleet, with FR3's as the semi diesels became too tired to keep them going.

 

N

[Giant]

One source quotes these Lister Production dates....

 

JP 1930 - 1952

FR 1954 - 1964

HA/HB 1958 - 1970

 

Others give slight variations to this, but all are within a year or so of each other, I think

 

We have a JP3M dated 1957. Can't be the original as the boat was built in '53 though, so it may have been specially ordered from Lister as a replacement after some mishap.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Giant

[zenataomm]

The Freedom series were nicknamed as being the engine that nearly broke Lister.

 

Everytime they thought they'd got it right, they had to throw another shed load of money at it.

It was not a profitable product.

[Jrtm]

 

 

True, but most boats have skin tanks. Not particularly difficult to convert the FR2 to raw water cooling even if purchased by someone remiss enough to have forgotten to have skin tanks fitted last time their boat was docked for major repairs...

Are you avalable to fit skin tanks to mine? It would save me a lot of hassle.

 

On the subject squire had a fr3 from a fishing boat when converted from a joey, now has a fr2 has always had skin tanks although when first done they ran 2 1 1/2- 2 inch pipe out the side down the back swim and then back and back threw the side,

Edited December 31, 2016 by billybobbooth

[MoominPapa]

 

 

Nor do I.

 

The FR2 doesn't strike me as the sort of engine that a cargo carrying NB would have been powered by anyway. Were they widely used in riveted iron motors carrying cargos for a living? I suspect not, and more likely fitted into boats at the end of their carrying days. Camping boats etc. I think I've only ever seen an FR2 in a fabricated steel stern.

Mendip, of "Chocolate Charlie" fame, has an FR2 fitted which dates from before the end of its carrying days.

 

MP.

Edited December 31, 2016 by MoominPapa

[archie57]

BW replaced the Josher Bolinders, mainly in the N orthern Fleet, with FR3's as the semi diesels became too tired to keep them going.

 

N

I think the FR3s went in to SE division fleet (as did some Armstrongs) - Northern boats were re-engined with Armstrongs and Lister HAs - plus the CE or FR as in Mendip (any others with CEs?)

Edited January 2, 2017 by archie57

[pete harrison]

During the 1950's 'British Waterways' modernised the engines of both their carrying and maintenance fleets (I am only referring to narrow boats here).

 

Lister FR3's were only fitted into their Southern maintenance boats, although one or two of these were subsequently transferred to the North. A few southern maintenance boats were alternatively fitted with Parsons Merganser's or Peregrine's dependant upon the duty of the boat, and later with Lister H series engines.

 

Lister FR2's were only fitted to a couple of the Northern Western (Southern) Division carrying fleet boats, with a couple of others fitted with Lister JP2's. A few motors in the north kept their Bolinders until the end of trade, with the remainder being modernised with Parsons Merganser's or Lister HA2's.

 

The carrying fleet of the South Eastern Division were mostly modernised with Petter PD2's, supplemented by a couple of Parson Merganser's - but a few kept their original engine types until coming out of trade.

 

I have done a considerable amount of research into motor narrow boats and I think I can account for almost every engine modernisation during this period. Other carriers modernised their boats with similar engines (some with discarded Bolinder semi's and National 2DM's), but about a dozen acquired cold start Bolinder BM1051 / 1052 / 1053's and even fewer (4) single cylinder Seffles - both of which were distributed by Willow Wren Canal Carrying Company. 'Barlow's' favoured modernising with Lister JP2's and Gardner 2L2's - and I could go on and on and on

Edited January 2, 2017 by pete harrison

[stagedamager]

Please do Pete. It's fascinating.

[archie57]

Pete - Regarding the FR3s - as you know the "Jaguar" had one fitted 1956 while still a traffic boat and Mr Humphries kept it until 1958 in the SE fleet until he had the "Phobos" ( which he much preferred!)

[Ray T]

Pete - Regarding the FR3s - as you know the "Jaguar" had one fitted 1956 while still a traffic boat and Mr Humphries kept it until 1958 in the SE fleet until he had the "Phobos" ( which he much preferred!)

 

Is this a Mr Humphries I know or the other Humphries, i.e. Bucky?

[archie57]

The late Ernie Humphries, also a one-time Longford resident!

[Ray T]

The late Ernie Humphries, also a one-time Longford resident!

 

Sorry about the 20 questions, any relation to either of them?

[pete harrison]

Pete - Regarding the FR3s - as you know the "Jaguar" had one fitted 1956 while still a traffic boat and Mr Humphries kept it until 1958 in the SE fleet until he had the "Phobos" ( which he much preferred!)

I had not noticed that before, probably because I have not been asked to compile a specific history for JAGUAR.

 

As you say the Lister FR3 was fitted into JAGUAR in May 1956 at Saltley, and I have a Bulls Bridge document stating that JAGUAR was not operational on 22 April 1958. I have a 'British Waterways' fleet list dated 10 January 1958 but unfortunately it only details former G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. boats, the previous fleet list in my collection being dated 02 July 1957 listing JAGUAR as being paired with ACTIS with the steerer as E. Humphries. Contrary to the Bulls Bridge document of 22 April 1958 I have this same pair listed on the fleet list dated 20 May 1958 - then missing from further fleet lists suggesting it was transferred to mainrenance in 1958.

 

I am probably guilty of assuming that the date of JAGUAR's engine change coincided with it becoming a maintenance boat as generally Northern District maintenance boats were docked at Saltley.

Edited January 2, 2017 by pete harrison

[Jrtm]

Mendip, of "Chocolate Charlie" fame, has an FR2 fitted which dates from before the end of its carrying days.

 

MP.

The last time i went out on mendip it had a jp2 fitted that was before they did the restoration work a few years back as far as i know still has this engine fitted. Edited January 4, 2017 by billybobbooth

[Jrtm]

I had not noticed that before, probably because I have not been asked to compile a specific history for JAGUAR.

 

As you say the Lister FR3 was fitted into JAGUAR in May 1956 at Saltley, and I have a Bulls Bridge document stating that JAGUAR was not operational on 22 April 1958. I have a 'British Waterways' fleet list dated 10 January 1958 but unfortunately it only details former G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. boats, the previous fleet list in my collection being dated 02 July 1957 listing JAGUAR as being paired with ACTIS with the steerer as E. Humphries. Contrary to the Bulls Bridge document of 22 April 1958 I have this same pair listed on the fleet list dated 20 May 1958 - then missing from further fleet lists suggesting it was transferred to mainrenance in 1958.

 

I am probably guilty of assuming that the date of JAGUAR's engine change coincided with it becoming a maintenance boat as generally Northern District maintenance boats were docked at Saltley.

Am i correct in thinking jag has a 1052 fitted now?