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Boat Size question


Billi

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Thanks everyone - (esp. Alan de Enfield for the long post). Hmm... got a lot to think about... oh and I did do a short intake of breath before writing those unmentionable words Blackrose but had to to give you the full picture ;) I REALLY would struggle on a narrow boat though seriously. I'd be living full time on it you see.

 

Amazingly supportive group you all are. Thank you.

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It sounds to me that you need a widebeam 'narrow'boat of about 12ft width by about 60ft long. This will enable you to explore nearly all the canals in comfort. The problem of getting from the Southern canals to the Northern canals (only a narrow (6ft 10ins) connection) can be overcome by doing all of one system then doing the other, to get from one to the other you can either have the boat transported by road or do a 'short' sea voyage - others can advise on this possibility if you are interested!

All the best!

 

John

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Okay so what would I need for the following... my absolute minimum living design needs are 2 double bedrooms and one study, small communal space, galley, and main toilet. I would be on the canals in England - say the Leeds to Liverpool to start off with (I don't know anything about the UK canal systems yet - got a lot of reading up to do) and would not be wanting to transport by road etc to get to other canals. What would I need now? Also, what is the difference between "wide beam" and "narrow boat" and what is a "wide beam narrow boat" and how does that impact the length of boat in relation to my needs. :blink: I'm really grateful for the help. Thank you.

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Okay so what would I need for the following... my absolute minimum living design needs are 2 double bedrooms and one study, small communal space, galley, and main toilet. I would be on the canals in England - say the Leeds to Liverpool to start off with (I don't know anything about the UK canal systems yet - got a lot of reading up to do) and would not be wanting to transport by road etc to get to other canals. What would I need now? Also, what is the difference between "wide beam" and "narrow boat" and what is a "wide beam narrow boat" and how does that impact the length of boat in relation to my needs. :blink: I'm really grateful for the help. Thank you.

 

 

Okay, if you really do want to travel north and south without trucking the boat or going round via the cost you need to be down at 7 feet beam, the definition of a narrow boat, because of this flight of locks in leicestershire

 

foxton%20lock%204.jpg

 

and a similar set 20 miles south. If you are more than 7 feet the only alternative is via the norfolk coast or, if you are really mad, round the outside of wales,

 

If you can live with either being lifted round this twenty miles obstacle then 10 feet or 12 feet beam is good. 10 feet would allow you access to the Anglian Rivers up to Cambridge and Bedford, 12 feet would go pretty much on all the other broad waterways, keep the length down to 57-60 feet so you can go through the leeds and liverpool canal

 

a narrow boat is 7 feet wide or less. A wide beam narrow boat is one built in the style of a narrow boat but rather wider, it won't fit through narrow canals

 

There are a lot of other narrow canals, the one I've shown is the critical one that stops north-south passage inland as it links the norther and southern wide beam canals

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http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=44553&st=0&p=823994&fromsearch=1entry823994

 

This recent thread links to a boat which is one a bed flat near Kew http://www.zoopla.co.uk/downloads/listings/1035492?type=floor_plan&index=0 gives you the plans.(while they last on the web)

 

Realistically could you live in a bedroom 6' x 6' with one tiny wardrobe? You get a bathroom about 4' square and a kitchen diner lounge 17' x 6'

 

This is the total accommodation on a 45' narrow boat.

 

On a 60' boat you could get a double at each end complete with bathroom each end but then the centre space would be the kitchen, lounge, and office space. You'd have NO "engine room" for tanks engine generator switchgear etc.

 

Doing a pair of boats 60ft x 6'10" you could get full canal possibility with four double beds, Use a wi-fi or wireless LAN to couple the boats or fit the tow-rope with power cable and cat5 cable.

 

A previous "what boat... " thread mentioned this boat http://www.multiships.nl/rubriek/woon-recreatie/614-toras/index-eng.php. Just look at the accommodation on that boat and the size of the boat. even for a boat 4.6m wide there is much space with headroom under 6feet BUT with the bigger space you could do a bigger conversion. However this hull probably originated in Russia in the 1920s and may need lots of TLC. The ad doesn't specifically say that it is moored in the Netherlands. There would be very few miles of UK waterway that could take this boat -none that I'd call canal except the Manchester Ship Canal.

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Hi Billi. I was just wondering if you've holidayed much on the canal network? If you think a narrowboat might not be for you, it might be risky to commission a brand new boat.. Might hiring help you find out what works? Alternatively, might a second hand boat help you decide if it's for you?

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Bill this map on Jim Shead's excellent site gives an easy to see at a glance which bit's of the system you are governed to by boat width.

 

CanalMap.gif

 

 

 

..

 

 

In a nutshell having a broad beam doesn't restrict you as much as you may be lead to believe (if you are willing to crane the boat out to get from the North to the South and vice versa)

 

You would however be excluded from some of the arguably most interesting bits of the system such as the Trent an Mersey/Oxford canals and the bits of the system in the West Midlands.

 

Also note when they refer to Broad and narrow canals it's actually the locks that is being referred to. You will often see a canal easily wide enough for a a wide beam boat but then it narrows right down into a lock only wide enough for one narrow boat.

Edited by MJG
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Thanks Arthur. I've filed away your info and will check out them links... and Dekazer... Thanks too. No I haven't holidayed on the canals. I just know though that the water is my true home. I'll give thought to hiring a boat to begin with though before I commission a new build.

Warmest

 

Wow thanks MJG! Wonderful information!

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<snip>

 

I REALLY would struggle on a narrow boat though seriously. I'd be living full time on it you see.

 

<snip>

 

I'm curious about this. Have you found the narrowboats you have already been on claustrophobic?

 

Richard

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If you want to do the whole system, it has to be a narrow boat, but hang on, why not think out of the box...or out of the 'tube' and make some areas duel purpose, thus giving the effect of far more space. For example, the double beds by day could split and fold up against the sides, keeping all bedding in place, and have a computer table or the like on the underneath which by day flaps down to create your office spaces, then on a 62' boat say, you would still have plenty of spece for the rest of the requirements, or the communal or galley space could also double up in office space. (eg breakfast bar come desk)

There are always compromises for those of us that live aboard, if you want to do it really, you will need some compromises...

..or a liveaboard with a butty for work area (butty would be VAT free)

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Wow Magpie! I'm getting bootcamp info here :) The things you learn! They are some mean looking locks.... Got a lot to learn it seems :captain:

 

That is Foxton flight and they look worse than they are - you also pass through under the watchful eye of a lock keeper

 

(oh and loads of spectators waiting for you to cock it up as it's a very popular spot for gongoozlers (an affectionate name for people who stand and watch boats on the system)

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One more thing.....

if you are planning a boat this year, depending on who your chosen builder is, you may need to be intouch sooner rather than later. We are booked till mid 2014....others may be too!

 

Nice one!!

 

:cheers:

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First off thank you for being here.

 

My question is this. I will be having my first boat designed and built towards the end of this year and need to know whether my vision for it would fit in with the size of canals. I do not wish to contact the boat builder until I am ready to take it to the next level and hence why I am asking you good people :)

 

I will need 4 double bedrooms (with at least 2 with en suite), 2 offices, a galley, living area and main head. Could such a build fit into the canal system as a whole? I was wondering about turning it around you see. Would a boat at 90ft be able to do this and is 90ft the largest a boat can be on the canal system and would all these rooms I will need fit into a 90ft build? Also, would I need a Wide Beam or a Dutch Barge to get the specifications I wish?

 

Thanks in advance for any feedback anyone can give me.

Billi

 

Where do you intend to use the boat ?. If you realy want to boat in the uk you have only one choice and that is narrowbeam by a maximum 70 feet or less depending where you want to go. If you want serious stuff then the boat next to me is a liveabord, he has 4 huge bedrooms, 2 large bathrooms a large kitchen and his lounge is 45 feet by 16 feet. The boat is 132 feet by 17 ft 10 in. If you need even more space there are larger craft oop ere indeed several around the 200 foot mark and to give you an idea of what a 200 foot long by 18 or 20 foot wide barge can accomodate then suffice to say its one hell of a lot bigger than the average house !! The bigger the boat the smaller the cruising range is the way to look at it. :cheers:

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Richard (RWLP)... Yes I helped a relative paint her narrow boat a while back and spent a good few weeks on it and just know I could never function on one full time.

 

Am I right in thinking this then... The max size should be 60ft to be able to do the majority of canals (and rivers in other places where the width of the boat can't do certain sections of canals?) I would be happy with that if so. Would I be able to do the whole of Scotland, England and Wales without having to use dry land too on a 60 ft wide beam?

 

Great idea too about compromising. Thanks for that wonderful description of how to do it :cheers: That's one of the things I fell in love with when I helped paint that boat - the amazing way boats can store stuff and be turned into things.

 

When commissioning a boat build, what percentage do they ask for up front and how long does a build take? It's shocked me about being booked up until 2014!

 

Thanks everyone. Boat people are the best! :rolleyes:

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No, you can't get to Scotland by canal

 

You can't get to all of the Welsh canals either

 

I'm sorry, but do you really know enough about this to spend £100,000 on a boat? You seem very short on even the basics

 

Richard

Edited by RLWP
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Richard (RWLP)... Yes I helped a relative paint her narrow boat a while back and spent a good few weeks on it and just know I could never function on one full time.

 

Am I right in thinking this then... The max size should be 60ft to be able to do the majority of canals (and rivers in other places where the width of the boat can't do certain sections of canals?) I would be happy with that if so. Would I be able to do the whole of Scotland, England and Wales without having to use dry land too on a 60 ft wide beam?

 

Oh dear. I'll go along with the premise that you are not simply a troll, but you obviously have not even the very first concept of what a canal is, or why people are telling you about the maximum size of boat you must have to be able to cruise everywhere in England and Wales. If you look properly at the map you will see a whole wadge of waterways coloured purple. In order to be allow boats to go up and down over hills there are locks, and the locks are the things that most limit the size of boat you can have on any waterway. There are hundreds of them. The locks on the section coloured purple are only 7' wide, which is why your boat can only be that width there. The bits marked in blue or red have wider locks, but although the majority of the purple ones will accept a boat about 70' long, many of the waterways with wide locks will not. That is the significance of what you are being told.

 

Also the waterways on that map come to a stop sort of at Lancaster and Ripon. The only way to Scotland is to go via the stuff coloured light blue on the map. This is known as sea, and although it is in principle possible for a boat that would comfortably cruise all the inland waterways to go out onto it, it is not a thing for the faint-hearted or unskilled, and in reality few canal boats are suitable.

 

You really do need to go out and look at more boats actually on the canal and talk to people. There is only so much that what you are being told on here will mean without looking at the reality of it. To leap from painting a boat for someone to paying the sort of money you would need to get one specially built to your requirements without understanding anything more would be ..... well, such a leap into the literally unknown that I can't think of a polite word for what I think it would be :rolleyes:

 

Edit to add: Ah, beaten to the finger again, and Richard put it all much more succinctly too.

Edited by Tam & Di
  • Greenie 3
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Billi, am I right in assuming you are coming over from the US to spend time here? Given you require 2 offices on board, I assume a partner? And that you are both self employed? How long do you intend to stay in the UK? I know I am being mosey, but it might help folks (far better qualified that me) to give you the best advice ( not saying they havent already :mellow: )

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Summary :

a ) You can do North of the Midlands in a 60' x 10' (or maybe 12')

b ) You can only do the Midlands in a 60' x under 7'

c ) You can do South of the Midlands in a 60' x 10' (or maybe 12')

 

You cannot get from A to C without going thru' B - unless you crane it out at the bottom end of A and crane it back in at the top end of C

 

If you have a boat that will do B then you can do ALL of the canal system (although some say the max length is 57' or 58' - others disagree.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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