At last, a Butty in the fleet!

[twbm]

Why use three words when one will do....

 

Manners.

[BenC]

I must be miss-reading this as the length of the butty has nothing to do with the effect the butty has when travelling abreast. What is important is that the butty is tied tightly against the motor and is prevented from 'slipping' backwards and forewards by tying the butty anser pin to the bollard / dolly on the motor boats counter and tying the butty tunnel hook to the anser pin on the motor boats gunwale. It is probably fair to assume that APACHE does not have an anser pin on its guwhale so a compromise will need to be found. Simply tying each end of the boat together is not sufficient as the butty will slip backwards when travelling forwards, then slip forwards when slowing down or going into reverse - which will cause all sorts of problems.

 

In my experience an empty butty is much happier being towed behind the motor boat on cross straps, usually requiring little or no input from the butty steerer at all. Travelling long distances abreast with empty boats is fine on the lower Grand Union Canal but not really suitable on the Kennet & Avon Canal, apart from short pounds of course.

 

As a professional boatman (retired 1985) I felt it was for me to control the boats, not the boats control me. I have always put the motor on the left to ensure it is in the deeper water, although clearly I have to work around the rotation of the propeller - which in my opinion has much less effect than the inertia of the butty.

The motor that i was referring to didn't have an anser pin on its guwhale so that's probably the reason I had the problem of the butty overtaking and turning the boats. Thanks for pointing this out. I was purely passing on something that I have experienced while breasted with a butty. I'd say inexperience not incompetence! One is giving it a go and learning from your mistakes and the other is unable/unqualified to do a task (and rude)

[GSer]

After a busy day loading bits and bobs into the butty, i ended up moving Cygnus to stbd of Apache, this left it all a bit awkward for mooring so i decided to take the pair for their first jaunt, just up through the swing bridge turn about and back to the mooring again, it seemed to go well enough, the inertia of the butty was quite significant even though Apache has anser pins, i think the new ropes stretched allowing a bit of movement.

 

I had to make the decision which way around to wind, i chose to try and turn the motor around the butty, there is little or no boat channel in the basin so i just made the decision because i had too

 

I didn't hit anyone so that's not bad and i enjoyed the experience.

 

Thanks again for the tips

 

Paul

[Hairy-Neil]

Manners.

 

incompetent [ɪnˈkɒmpɪtənt]

adj

1. not possessing the necessary ability, skill, etc. to do or carry out a task.

 

2. marked by lack of ability, skill, etc.

 

I believe Pete's intent was the first definition, whereas you have plumbed for the second...

[mykaskin]

After a busy day loading bits and bobs into the butty, i ended up moving Cygnus to stbd of Apache, this left it all a bit awkward for mooring so i decided to take the pair for their first jaunt, just up through the swing bridge turn about and back to the mooring again, it seemed to go well enough, the inertia of the butty was quite significant even though Apache has anser pins, i think the new ropes stretched allowing a bit of movement.

 

I had to make the decision which way around to wind, i chose to try and turn the motor around the butty, there is little or no boat channel in the basin so i just made the decision because i had too

 

I didn't hit anyone so that's not bad and i enjoyed the experience.

 

Thanks again for the tips

 

Paul

 

There are two schools of thought when turning with a butty. The right choice is usually down to the situation. If you are coming in a speed and need to slow down have the butty on the outside. It will spin you around, and then you can power the pair around with the tiller to finish off. The other is if you are starting from slow speed, where putting the motor on the outside is the right way, but mind if you go astern as the butty will stop the rotation.

 

The mark of a good boater is to turn at Brentford in one hit. Some could do it with the butty either side.

Edited March 31, 2012 by mykaskin

[pete harrison]

The mark of a good boater is to turn at Brentford in one hit. Some could do it with the butty either side.

 

deleted by Pete Harrison before I get in trouble for having bad manners

Edited March 31, 2012 by pete harrison

[Derek R.]

Lets get into trouble.

 

The inexperienced are the quiet ones, learning as they go.

The incompetent are the loud ones, spouting all they know.

 

I've often wondered why some 'old folk' have kept quiet about their knowledge and somewhat reluctant to share. On recent visits to Braunston, and having watched some incredible feats of incompetence on some publicly available videos by those who should have 'learnt' more before applying their theories influenced by certain books, and perhaps ignoring practical science, then I begin to understand why many keep shtuum.

 

Me? I know nothing. An era has ended as they all do, and those not willing to engage in the new will drift away keeping their memories sacred, and personal.

 

Cheerio.

 

Derek

[pete harrison]

Lets get into trouble.

 

The inexperienced are the quiet ones, learning as they go.

The incompetent are the loud ones, spouting all they know.

 

I've often wondered why some 'old folk' have kept quiet about their knowledge and somewhat reluctant to share. On recent visits to Braunston, and having watched some incredible feats of incompetence on some publicly available videos by those who should have 'learnt' more before applying their theories influenced by certain books, and perhaps ignoring practical science, then I begin to understand why many keep shtuum.

 

Me? I know nothing. An era has ended as they all do, and those not willing to engage in the new will drift away keeping their memories sacred, and personal.

 

Cheerio.

 

Derek

 

My last note (the deleted one from 21:05 yesterday) was about reading too many books and being all too easily impressed by fairly straight forward boat handling.

 

I think it is time for me to drift away and look after my memories.

[bristol & argo]

-snip-

 

I recall getting stuck quite badly coming out of Woolhampton lock (Old Woolhampton lock - 94 ?) when passing downhill with a breasted pair of G.U.C.C.Co Ltd. boats in 1996. This was due to wooden guards being bolted to the lower lockmouth approach causing a 'pinch point'. I also recall there being a nice waterside pub just downstream of Woolhampton lock.

 

When we eventually left the K&A (fed up with bottom gates not opening fully - it's always the one on the motor side),

we got stuck breasted;

Woolhampton - in the lower lock approach due to the kink in the piling,

between the bottom stop plank channels at Newbury Lock (you should fit through with Apache being narrower),

in the bottom of the lock above Marsh Benham (again you should be ok with a narrower motor).

Sulhampstead Swing Bridge - always gets silted badly from the river so you can't get near the landing stage.

 

Simon.

[GSer]

When we eventually left the K&A (fed up with bottom gates not opening fully - it's always the one on the motor side),

we got stuck breasted;

Woolhampton - in the lower lock approach due to the kink in the piling,

between the bottom stop plank channels at Newbury Lock (you should fit through with Apache being narrower),

in the bottom of the lock above Marsh Benham (again you should be ok with a narrower motor).

Sulhampstead Swing Bridge - always gets silted badly from the river so you can't get near the landing stage.

 

Simon.

 

Good info thanks, i'll be through sulhampstead on friday, i'll let you know how i get on.

 

Paul

[GSer]

First proper trip today, it was everything i expected, quite a challenge

 

Sulhampstead lock, and the next one, along with burghfield lock had to be 'singled out' as i was going downhill i decided not to take too many chances, i think i may be able to do at least burghfied as a pair going uphill.

 

Breasted up was quite slow going and caused a couple of issues passing craft travelling in the oposite direction, and on cross straps things started well but then i started to get silly little handling issues, the butty got 'stuck' to the towpath side at one point and no amount of wriggling would unstick it, it was very shallow and the whole rig was very sluggish at that time, then, with a steerer on the butty, our well oiled boat handling machine just fell apart when we came to a swing bridge with no proper landing area, i tried to get the butty close enough for er indoors to jump, took my eye off the tugs bow and ended up jackknifing the whole lot with neither of us crew in a position to get to the towpath, it was like a carry on film

 

I hope tomorrow is better, its enjoyable though in a stressy way

[GSer]

 

The complete 'rig' on its first trip, thanks to Tom of Wairuou for the picture

[pete harrison]

 

The complete 'rig' on its first trip, thanks to Tom of Wairuou for the picture

 

Paul,

 

I have always found it much easier to boat with the cloths down (but cratch up), especially when empty. You will find the boat is much less likely to be caught by the wind, but more importantly it is far easier and safer to move around the boat. The other advantage of having the cloths down is there are three more places to get on and off the boat as the beams are exposed. I appreciate that once you have converted under the cloths you will not be able to take them down.

[GSer]

Paul,

 

I have always found it much easier to boat with the cloths down (but cratch up), especially when empty. You will find the boat is much less likely to be caught by the wind, but more importantly it is far easier and safer to move around the boat. The other advantage of having the cloths down is there are three more places to get on and off the boat as the beams are exposed. I appreciate that once you have converted under the cloths you will not be able to take them down.

 

 

Cheers, once i get the cratch built properly it will be much easier to travel with an open hold, unfortunatley i've had to cut the old undercloth conversion down and without the cloths it's a bit of a 'carbunkle' so cloths will stay on for now. I'm having a week or two off to get used to it all, then i will know what i want to do.

 

Biggest problem i had was trying to breast up mid water on the thames, in my head it was all controlled, slide the butty up the side, strap it on and all would be fine, couldn't be further than the truth, i detached the cross straps gave er indoors the bowline from the butty, but she was a little slow to move and the butty chased her up the gunnel, the fat cheeks of the woolwich's bow overrode the low side of apache, so there was a real danger of her being knocked off the side so i gave apache a bitof throttle to try and kill any difference in speed between the boats, this worked but sent us a little out of control, it did give jeanette a chance to get to the tugs bow deck saftely only for her to fall down the deck hatch she had left open! Never again!!!

 

All fine and dandy now though, we're still not speaking!

 

 

Paul

[Chris Pink]

In my experience the best technique to learn while breasting up is throwing a rope over the t-stud of one boat while stood on the other. Even when breasting up in a bridgehole it saves moving between the boats and is an essential single-hqnded technique, even with crew it still saves time and aids safety.

 

Coil two thirds of the rope and while holding the bitter end throw the coils horizontally over the top of, to the right of the t-stud if holding the end in your left hand ( or vice versa ). Easier to do than write about even if sometimes it takes two or three goes. You can strap two boats from up to 10 feet apart like this.

[pete harrison]

Cheers, once i get the cratch built properly it will be much easier to travel with an open hold, unfortunatley i've had to cut the old undercloth conversion down and without the cloths it's a bit of a 'carbunkle' so cloths will stay on for now. I'm having a week or two off to get used to it all, then i will know what i want to do.

 

Biggest problem i had was trying to breast up mid water on the thames, in my head it was all controlled, slide the butty up the side, strap it on and all would be fine, couldn't be further than the truth, i detached the cross straps gave er indoors the bowline from the butty, but she was a little slow to move and the butty chased her up the gunnel, the fat cheeks of the woolwich's bow overrode the low side of apache, so there was a real danger of her being knocked off the side so i gave apache a bitof throttle to try and kill any difference in speed between the boats, this worked but sent us a little out of control, it did give jeanette a chance to get to the tugs bow deck saftely only for her to fall down the deck hatch she had left open! Never again!!!

 

All fine and dandy now though, we're still not speaking!

 

 

Paul

 

Whilst empty I would travel abreast on the River Thames south of the Dukes Cut at Oxford. I know that the Narrow Boat Trust Ltd. often put tyres between the boats whilst abreast on the River Thames in a attempt to improve water flow to the motor's propeller. Personally I don't think it makes a lot of difference provided the boats are empty.

 

Going from singled out to abreast is just a matter of practice and finding what works for you. I have always tried to use canal furniture wherever possible such as in locks or under bridge, mainly because I frequently boat with an inexperienced crew and so try to minimise how far apart the fore ends can spread apart. One of the easiest ways in open water is to take a line from the butty mast to the motor mast. With the masts connected by a line (tight or looseish it does not matter) the speed of the motor either increasing or slowing down will bring the boats abreast - tie both boats together properly and job's a good'n.

 

I always use the motor's fore end line to tie the boats together with, leaving the butty line free to tie to the bank. I also tie the fore ends together before tying the butty to the bank, taking the motors fore end line back to the motor for tying off. When tying the butty to the bank i always return the line to the butty T stud for tying off so that I can untie without getting off the boats, most relevant when it is raining as I hate getting the boats muddy. As a final point I go out of my way not to use 'mooring stakes' as again I like to untie from the boats not from standing on the bank.

 

I only tie in places where it is suitable to 'moor' abreast, always with the butty on the inside and the motor afloat in the deeper water. Tying this way around makes departure very easy when leaving singled out as the motor will hold the untied butty against the bank.