HS2 Rail link petition

[Laurence Hogg]

all this talked about "lines at maximum capacity" is utter crap. Back in the 1970's we had a train about every five minutes through the Grand junction line (London - Liverpool)which I live next to. we are constantly told our station (Willenhall) closed in the 1960's cant be reopened because there isnt the capacity for the trains. We get about one train every hour through now, wrexham and Shropshire doesnt run through anymore so how is our line at "full capacity"?

The answer is our line is on occasions used for diversions off both the Trent valley and Stour valley main lines, on those days we see trains every 15 minutes or so, still not at the level of the 70's.

The truth is Network Rail set the capacity rules and can fudge them to suit them selves or to produce wrong statistics (just like BW volunteer numbers!).

 

And if we are to have this HS2 why isnt it going to terminate at St Pancras?? If I want to go shopping in Paris ill be faced with a ten minute walk down the Euston rd or a trip on the tube!!

Edited January 10, 2012 by Laurence Hogg

[Graham Davis]

perhaps not having 5-7 first class carriages containing approx 17 people may help??

 

Yes I might agree with that bit, even though I often end up blagging a seat in First Class.

 

even though paying the highest commuter fares in the EU.

According to a Radio 4 programme yesterday afternoon, that was debatable. Zurich was certainly more expensive.

[mayalld]

all this talked about "lines at maximum capacity" is utter crap. Back in the 1970's we had a train about every five minutes through the Grand junction line (London - Liverpool)which I live next to. we are constantly told our station (Willenhall) closed in the 1960's cant be reopened because there isnt the capacity for the trains. We get about one train every hour through now, wrexham and Shropshire doesnt run through anymore so how is our line at "full capacity"?

 

 

Because of the need for increased headway when running at higher speeds.

 

There may well be capacity at that station, but a lack of paths elsewhere on the line.

[Guest]

I fear that you miss the point.

 

The fact that this will be built for very high speed, and will provide faster journey times (and nearly halving journey times is hardly "a few minutes") is actually incidental to the fact that the current lines are at capacity.

 

Notwithstanding pie in the sky ideas around everybody remaining within 10 miles of home at all times, we either provide more rail capacity, more road capacity, of accept the polution consequences of ever increasing pollution.

 

Providing more rail capacity isn't without impact, but it is the "least worst" option.

 

If you are providing more capacity, it makes sense to provide that capacity as a high speed line.

 

Why do folks still need to meet face to face???,,,,

[Laurence Hogg]

Because of the need for increased headway when running at higher speeds.

 

There may well be capacity at that station, but a lack of paths elsewhere on the line.

Sorry I dont buy that one the line speed is the same as it always has been, nothing has changed in that respect. With the W&S service going and the regular Wolverhampton - Walsall service which lost funding there more capacity than ever.

 

The fact that we are the logical route out for Manchester HS3 might also be in play!

Edited January 10, 2012 by Laurence Hogg

[mrsmelly]

Well here's one who does want it!!

Have you ever tried to get on a train from Brum to London before 10.00 in the morning? You can't as they are full of commuters.

 

How will you increase the capacity and the speed of trains to London?

 

The best thing is to make sure your life never gets bad enough to have to commute daily between 2 orrible great cities. Some years ago I decided having little money, a small house in a picturesque part of cornwall and a secondhand boat and old banger car is vastly superior to having a well paid job and a bloody mortgage just to keep buying bigger, newer etc etc. My cousin has done the opposite, he is my age and has worked for nearly 40 years in London earning a fortune. He has a bloody huge house worth well over a million etc etc. Now many would think him succesfull and me the opposite BUT I have had several 6 month holidays over the last 20 years and indeed have not needed to work in the last ten months where as he has only had the basic holidays allowed by his employers for all his 40 years. Would I swop with him...........Not on your nellie. People need to slow down and stop thinking they need to buy every new fangled gadget advertised on their 50 inch tv whilst paying monthly for their shiny vastly depreciating car.

[RLWP]

Why do folks still need to meet face to face???,,,,

 

Compare and contrast 'Forum' and 'Banter'

 

Richard

[Thorfast]

Surely if they change 1 first class coach to second class and then add 4 more second class coaches they will just about double current capacity without having to alter any track, timetabling etc. A much cheaper option. ( I've just tried it on my train set and it works for me !!)

[casper ghost]

I think train passengers are lucky that the rest of us subsidise their travel, when where I live the only railway station within 15 miles is on the SVR..

Casp'

[Guest]

Compare and contrast 'Forum' and 'Banter'

 

Richard

 

Banters though have a purpose.....

[Graham Davis]

Sorry I dont buy that one the line speed is the same as it always has been, nothing has changed in that respect. With the W&S service going and the regular Wolverhampton - Walsall service which lost funding there more capacity than ever.

 

The fact that we are the logical route out for Manchester HS3 might also be in play!

 

You are going on about the Marylebone line which does not have the same line speed as the Brum Euston line. To increase the line speed on that line would need major track alterations and a major signalling renewal. Even then it does not have adequate capacity.

 

The W & S service didn't make any money; that is why it got dumped.

 

Mrsmelly, thankfully I don't have to commute to London, just go to meetings there!!

 

Casper, lucky beggar! At least you get kettles. We only get a "milk float" every two hours!!

Edited January 10, 2012 by Graham Davis

[alan_fincher]

perhaps not having 5-7 first class carriages containing approx 17 people may help??

I used LondonMidland from MK,LeightonB,Cheddington,Tring,Berko,HH,Apsley,KLangley and Watford for two years, the first class carriages(1/4 train length) were always almost, or entirely empty.

Pedant's alert, and I hate to challenge a regular commuter when I'm not, but......

 

For years the local stopping services out of Euston have used trains made up of 4 car sets, whether 4, 8 or 12 coaches overall. Each of the mafor tptes of multiple unit used, since electrification in the 1960s, has never had more than half of one of the coaches as first class. So it's 1/8 of any train that is First class, not 1/4.

 

Certainly a point in ditching it though, I agree, particularly as seats are usually packed moredensely in the "pleb" class.

 

Surely whatever Laurence says about train lenths and flexibility, far for more passengers are being carried on (say) the London to Birmingham route now than was ever the case in the 1980s. I'd need to do my research but isn't it the case many of these routes now carry more passengers than since opened around 180 years ago ?

[RLWP]

Banters though have a purpose.....

 

Yeah, I get to eyeball you and know you properly

 

Richard

[casper ghost]

Yeah, I get to eyeball you and know you properly

 

Richard

Yes, but if we only had virtual banters then I could do a virtual chug there in my virtual boat...

Casp'

[matty40s]

Pedant's alert, and I hate to challenge a regular commuter when I'm not, but......

 

For years the local stopping services out of Euston have used trains made up of 4 car sets, whether 4, 8 or 12 coaches overall. Each of the mafor tptes of multiple unit used, since electrification in the 1960s, has never had more than half of one of the coaches as first class. So it's 1/8 of any train that is First class, not 1/4.

 

Certainly a point in ditching it though, I agree, particularly as seats are usually packed moredensely in the "pleb" class.

 

Surely whatever Laurence says about train lenths and flexibility, far for more passengers are being carried on (say) the London to Birmingham route now than was ever the case in the 1980s. I'd need to do my research but isn't it the case many of these routes now carry more passengers than since opened around 180 years ago ?

Mr pedant, I challenge you! I was referring to the Virgin Euston/Birmingham/(manchester/glasgow) services in a previous post which have massive overcapacity untouched. The LondonMidland trains are the middle third of every second carriage.

[RLWP]

Yes, but if we only had virtual banters then I could do a virtual chug there in my virtual boat...

Casp'

 

You still wouldn't get there...

 

Richard

[Graham Davis]

Mr pedant, I challenge you! I was referring to the Virgin Euston/Birmingham/(manchester/glasgow) services in a previous post which have massive overcapacity untouched. The LondonMidland trains are the middle third of every second carriage.

 

That depends on time of day, and day of the week.

Most Brum to Euston trains before 1000 are packed.(other than 1st class)

[Thorfast]

You still wouldn't get there...

 

Richard

But he would be virtually there!

[DHutch]

A bit late for a petition, it's already a done deal..

This, mainly.

 

I havent the knowlage to say if its the right thing, in the right place, at the right time, or for the right money or reasons. However I am very much in support of improving and increasing our rail network which this appears to be.

 

 

Daniel

[alan_fincher]

Mr pedant, I challenge you! I was referring to the Virgin Euston/Birmingham/(manchester/glasgow) services in a previous post which have massive overcapacity untouched. The LondonMidland trains are the middle third of every second carriage.

Out pedanted, and duly humbled, although surprised by what you suggest as the first clast accommodation in the London Midland Desiros. I'll be more observant next time I climb on one!

[Laurence Hogg]

You are going on about the Marylebone line which does not have the same line speed as the Brum Euston line. To increase the line speed on that line would need major track alterations and a major signalling renewal. Even then it does not have adequate capacity.

 

The W & S service didn't make any money; that is why it got dumped.

 

Mrsmelly, thankfully I don't have to commute to London, just go to meetings there!!

 

Casper, lucky beggar! At least you get kettles. We only get a "milk float" every two hours!!

Wheres Marylebone come into it?, I am on about the Grand Junction line which skirts over the north of Birmingham avoids Wolverhampton and heads north.

[DHutch]

What you really want is a Mk2 slam door.... only a few of thoses still in service! BR SLEP anyone?

I would also like a white flag waver for my drive to work tomorrow please.

 

 

Daniel

[casper ghost]

But he would be virtually there!

[beardshave]

perhaps not having 5-7 first class carriages containing approx 17 people may help??

I used LondonMidland from MK,LeightonB,Cheddington,Tring,Berko,HH,Apsley,KLangley and Watford for two years, the first class carriages(1/4 train length) were always almost, or entirely empty. The rest were cramped to extremes at times, but if you moved into space, you were rudely moved back to the poor peoples quarters, even though paying the highest commuter fares in the EU.

 

I agree.

I also believe the idiocy that has been announced today has no prospect of being implemented. Between now and when the project is finished there will be:-

at least three General Elections-when there will be more votes gained in dumping the plan and

a worsening financial crisis that will remove our ability to raise the money necessary (and that's a lot more than was announced today)

I am not a nimby but I have cruised the Oxford and seen where the exrcescence will cross and, more importantly than any enivironmental loss, I have a friend in Ruislip , a widow , who together with her daughter and grandchildren, has seen the value of their house and their lifestyle wrecked because of an unnecessary stupidity that will not be implemented in their lifetime.Madness.

Edited January 10, 2012 by beardshave

[MartinClark]

And if we are to have this HS2 why isnt it going to terminate at St Pancras?? If I want to go shopping in Paris ill be faced with a ten minute walk down the Euston rd or a trip on the tube!!

 

It sounds as if you have not looked at the plans for the line, Laurence. There will be a link across from the HS2 line from Primrose Hill to the HS1 line so that trains from Birmingham and the North can pass straight through onto the line for the Channel Tunnel without going into Euston or St Pancras.

Link to list of maps.