Jump to content

HS2 Rail link petition


Emerald

Featured Posts

As pointed out in post #2 this was a done deal from the start. Too much pork for it to be rejected. Sadly with the cost of rail travel so high that travel by car is more affordable and more convenient I can't see it being anything but a white elephant on the scale of the Humber Bridge. What a waste of money, what a waste of talent and effort. Trains are becoming irrelevant to the common person - even the minister responsible for them agrees that they are "a rich man's toy".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hog wash or not my point was-and I apologise if I made it badly- why inflict the angst on large numbers of people when for political and financial reasons the project will never be finished and probably never started.

Now that is a good point. If the case against is based on the premise that it doesn't add long-term value to GB Plc it's worthy of debate. However, this is spectacularly clouded by the emotive, apoplectic reaction based on 'blighting the Chilterns' and 'environmental damage'. (So that massive gash through Chinnor Ridge that rings in the ears 24/7 didn't blight the Chilterns?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And if we are to have this HS2 why isnt it going to terminate at St Pancras?? If I want to go shopping in Paris ill be faced with a ten minute walk down the Euston rd or a trip on the tube!!

It will link directly to HS1.

 

People need to slow down and stop thinking they need to buy every new fangled gadget....

You're not writing that on a computer are you? :cheers:

 

I now live within a mile of the HS2 route. It is beautiful countryside - and not just Bucks, but Northants and S Warks please! In balance, I think it is a good idea. Birmingham is just a stage post - eventually the line should reach Leeds, Sheffield and Manchester, and possibly on to Edinburgh and Glasgow. That will eliminate a lot of internal air traffic which has to be a good thing. I also think, in a Keynesian way, that investing money in infrastructure during a recession, or time of austerity if you will, is a good thing. You can't just cut back and cut back and then expect any economic growth - it needs financial stimulus.

 

If you want to immeasurably improve North Oxon and S Warks in terms of environmental impact, close the M40. But that won't happen, of course, and it wouldn't be desirable now that it is there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that is a good point. If the case against is based on the premise that it doesn't add long-term value to GB Plc it's worthy of debate. However, this is spectacularly clouded by the emotive, apoplectic reaction based on 'blighting the Chilterns' and 'environmental damage'. (So that massive gash through Chinnor Ridge that rings in the ears 24/7 didn't blight the Chilterns?)

 

 

The reason many in the chilterns don't mind the m40 cutting through the landscape is they use it to get to work quicker and it's access to London keeps house prices up.

Anytime anything is built that doesn't benefit the people directly the nimby attitude comes out in force.

 

Just to clarify I live in the chilterns not far from the route and see it as common sense in the long term, with one provisio, that the work is done by uk companies for tracks trains etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason many in the chilterns don't mind the m40 cutting through the landscape is they use it to get to work quicker and it's access to London keeps house prices up.

Anytime anything is built that doesn't benefit the people directly the nimby attitude comes out in force.

 

Just to clarify I live in the chilterns not far from the route and see it as common sense in the long term, with one provisio, that the work is done by uk companies for tracks trains etc.

I don't know about the Chiltern part of the M40 as that was completed a good deal earlier, but the M40 extension from Oxford to Birmingham (1988 - 1990) attracted huge protests from local people in the blighted villages along its route, even though now it provides ease of access for those villagers to Warwick/Leamington, Coventry and Brum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Change happens, deal with it...

 

 

 

Adam

 

I deal with change everyday of my working life. It's pound notes (sorry anther change, COINS) I am concerned about. If all of those rich people that are the only ones that can afford to use it,pay for it then happy days!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Two g's

 

Richard

 

 

Ah, the thick plottens!

 

Yes, I misspelt a word.

 

However, my confusion here stems from the fact that Matty mistook the intent of my post.

 

My post wasn't criticising or commenting on the misspelling of excrescence (because I hadn't actually spotted that it had been misspelt). Rather it was complimenting the poster on the making use of such a splendid word in his post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What i heard on the radio this morning was that thousands of people a day needed to get to Brum in a hurry ! I don't think so !

 

Surely the reason for the new trains is so that people can get out of Brum in a hurry !! so looks like a good thing to me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't know what all the fuss is about. The nimby's are the only one's who'll be able to afford to use it!

 

I worked for BR upgrading the signalling prior to privatisation. We tarted up the bits you could easily get to while the rest layed rotting. Ever wondered why those location boxes at the side of the track were taped up? Because the wire degradation was so bad that if you opened the door the wind would blow the insulation clean off! Put me off travelling by train forever in this country. Felt safer to be honest travelling by train in China and that's only because it's a military tool in case of war.

 

It will only be a sticking plaster by the time it is in use not to mention out of date. Look at the industry after the 2nd world war. We plundered forward with steam while the rest of europe went diesel. The plate at Euston hasn't been updated much since the fifties. I'm not going there with how I found out. Same with shipbuilding. The QE2 was built with century or older tools and methods. It was at the cutting edge. We never built another like it. No orders nothing. What happened there? Management to busy patting each other on the back? By the time we had run our manufacturing industries into the ground (and I mean by the 60's) the rest of the world had caught up. We ignored the challenge and got beaten. It's my opinion that we traded far too long on the back of the Empire. When it crumbled this country sat back and did nothing. We've done nothing for so long now nobody knows how to fix it. No one that matters!

 

Ok it's an investment in boosting the economy but it's only short term. What happens when it's finished, a fraction of the staff are left to maintain it. Will it really benefit local communities? I think the money would be better spent elsewhere. Someone mentioned maglev. It would be nice to think we could perfect that and roll it out across the UK and maybe Europe. Alas I think we are too far behind the Germans and Japanese to catch up and return the favour.

 

When is this country going to tackle the cause and stop battling the symptoms!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking upon this controversy from a safe distance, 50 (yes fifty) miles from the nearest station, I find all this very interesting. The equivalent nimby argument round here is about wind turbines, where I find myself in a very small minority (ie I have supported local plans for them), but having travelled on, passed by and stayed near various AVE lines in Spain, I cannot say that they are excrescences or blights on the landscape - rather elegant in fact (just like the wind turbines).

 

Edited to say that if there were a proposal to build a motorway, or even a main road nearby, that would be a very different thing. I would certainly feel forced to move.

Edited by Mac of Cygnet
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And the NIMBY's whinging on about environmental impact are lightweights. Try this for a bit of real environmental impact...

Of course, there were a lot of objections to railway construction the first time round (1820 onwards).

 

By the time of the Beeching closures the branch lines were seen as much loved romantic structures that had become a quintessential part of the British landscape.

 

I wonder if it was the same when they started putting up dry stone walls all over the Yorkshire Dales?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I see a lot of rail lovers talking up their favourite (Second favourite?) form of transport, I don't see any economic justification for reducing travel times between London and Birmingham.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I see a lot of rail lovers talking up their favourite (Second favourite?) form of transport, I don't see any economic justification for reducing travel times between London and Birmingham.

The journey time between London and Birmingham is not the real point though. That is just the initial stage of high speed rail links between London and Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield, and (subject to Scottish Government approval), Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The journey time between London and Birmingham is not the real point though. That is just the initial stage of high speed rail links between London and Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield, and (subject to Scottish Government approval), Glasgow and Edinburgh.

And as someone said earlier up the thread, it's about increasing capacity, reducing journey times is a happy coincidence

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, but why is journey time the driver here? Surely the problem is (peak) capacity and cost? I realise that an extra line (be it high speed or not) will increase capacity, but it isn't going to be any cheaper to travel on that line, and likely much more expensive. Will the HS lines be the new first class and the existing lines the new standard class?

 

Also, forget the Scottish link until the Scots make up their mind if they want to be in the UK or not!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trains are becoming irrelevant to the common person -

 

Are they? I've done a lot of rail commuting the the NW, Mids and London area over the years and it's not the landed gentry I'm rubbing elbows with.

 

a rich man's toy"[/url].

 

Maybe long distance; but will HS2 make space for much needed capacity on the local routes? Average people going to average jobs.

 

There was a program on R4 that could have been accepted as blatant propagandising; they got the train from Bolton to Manchester at commuter o'clock; the guard said something akin to "if there's a crash no-one will be able to get off; it's too full!" and that's my experience wheneever I've commuted by rail over the last few years; certainly on that route -albiet it won't be directly affected- but also on the cross city line through Brum that might be; I don't know if the Big Trains are a limiting factor between New St & Lichfield but they certainly coexist on the same infrastructure.

 

Creating extra capacity on those commuter runs is just as important as the WCM and certainly in the W Mids HS2 may do exactly that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As pointed out in post #2 this was a done deal from the start. Too much pork for it to be rejected. Sadly with the cost of rail travel so high that travel by car is more affordable and more convenient I can't see it being anything but a white elephant on the scale of the Humber Bridge. What a waste of money, what a waste of talent and effort. Trains are becoming irrelevant to the common person - even the minister responsible for them agrees that they are "a rich man's toy".

 

I am not bothered about HS2 as I doubt I will ever see it built. I would say that I do not agree with your statement about being" irrelevant to the common person" not only because I am not sure what a common person is, but also as quite a frequent train user as I have no car it can be quite cheap. This week I booked a train from Preston to Edinburgh return to visit my son for a weekend the cost £32 and for an extra £15 I could have upgraded to First Class but hey I am happy sitting with people in ordinary class.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I make fairly frequent trips to Manchester from London and the fare is £70 per person on the days I need to travel - petrol sets me back about £50 (less if I take my time) - usual savings £90 when two of us travel, and funnily enough its usually a shorter day when I drive because I don't have to waste time getting into Euston and back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.