Jump to content

Tring Summit closure


koukouvagia

Featured Posts

Good pics Alan, hopefully the water on the Southern, (Cowroast side) of the stop planks will increase as they raise the level and the the boats will start to float.

 

As of this morning the pump at Cowroast was not running.

 

Mike

Well I hope they thing those stop planks are not going to let a lot of any water pumped into the Cow Roast length drain past them..... They look to me of having every prospect of leaking a fair bit, but we shall see.

 

:smiley_offtopic:

 

I was thinking what a spectacular own goal BWML have achieved by buying out a marina, only to have BW close the length of canal on which it sits! I can't see them filling those empty places if people can't get boats to it. Mr. Dykes must be laughing that he sold up when he did, methinks!.......

 

me I could just buy another nb up north and that solves my problems...one up north and one down here...

I did meet someone in Berkhamsted yesterday who had had to turn back after thinking he might still be able to get through to the North.

 

Learning that we have 2 boats North of the summit, where he wanted to be, he did ask if me might like to swap one, so we have one on either side, and he has one where he needs it to be!......

 

The somewhat daft thing,(to me) is that still with no level difference, and an acknowledgement that the issue isn't much affected by lock usage, boats could still have been using the summit up until now, because, at the moment, the water levels there are still unchanged.

Edited by alan_fincher
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We

 

:smiley_offtopic:

 

I was thinking what a spectacular own goal BWML have achieved by buying out a marina, only to have BW close the length of canal on which it sits! I can't see them filling those empty places if people can't get boats to it. My Dykes must be laughing that he sold up when he did, methinks!.......

 

The moreso as the first thing the new owners have had to pay for is an expensive new water main - connection all the way from the bridge.

 

Mr. Dyke (Lol) has been laughing all the way to the Bank for years..

 

Mike.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:smiley_offtopic:

 

I was thinking what a spectacular own goal BWML have achieved by buying out a marina, only to have BW close the length of canal on which it sits! I can't see them filling those empty places if people can't get boats to it. Mr. Dykes must be laughing that he sold up when he did, methinks!.......

 

 

Conversely, no one is going to be ableto escape from Cowroast for a competitor marina.tongue.gif

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Conversely, no one is going to be ableto escape from Cowroast for a competitor marina.tongue.gif

The visitor moorings outside have seldom looked emptier though.

 

Anyone currently in the marina might save a packet by giving notice, the moving outside, and telling BW they would be continuous cruising if they possibly could!.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Still not entirely sure how closing off use of the locks will help when they've already said that lock use isn't the problem but seepage into the surrounding land is.

Oh well. I intend to make the most of it. It's an excuse to explore a few new walks in the area, buy a bus pass to explore the joys of the Arriva 500 and watch with dismay as the Cow Roast catchment pound leaks into the drained Tring pound and grounds everyone else coz BW ain't thought that bit through. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I hope they thing those stop planks are not going to let a lot of any water pumped into the Cow Roast length drain past them..... They look to me of having every prospect of leaking a fair bit, but we shall see.

 

:smiley_offtopic:

 

I was thinking what a spectacular own goal BWML have achieved by buying out a marina, only to have BW close the length of canal on which it sits! I can't see them filling those empty places if people can't get boats to it. Mr. Dykes must be laughing that he sold up when he did, methinks!.......

 

 

I did meet someone in Berkhamsted yesterday who had had to turn back after thinking he might still be able to get through to the North.

 

Learning that we have 2 boats North of the summit, where he wanted to be, he did ask if me might like to swap one, so we have one on either side, and he has one where he needs it to be!......

 

The somewhat daft thing,(to me) is that still with no level difference, and an acknowledgement that the issue isn't much affected by lock usage, boats could still have been using the summit up until now, because, at the moment, the water levels there are still unchanged.

 

 

Alan, should you be up at Chalice and find the water level has dropped - do me a favour - if you see Jade hanging from the pontoon at a precarious angle, slacken the lines for me please. I was there yesterday and although I was told it had dropped about a foot, it rose to about normal again.

 

On a serious note, we should feel sorry for Daren at this time. None of this is great for his business at Cowroast, especially after the freeze up last year.

Edited by Water Rat.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd be surprised if he noticed. I got the impression from local boaters that he gets the bulk of his work from the marina moorers, out of convenience (so they say) as much as anything. His prices are so high many other boaters can't or won't pay what he charges. When he quoted me £50 per hour plus VAT, I also went elsewhere. With his marina captive audience even more captive than usual he'll be raking it in as they all get their blacking done coz they can't cruise!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alan, should you be up at Chalice and find the water level has dropped - do me a favour - if you see Jade hanging from the pontoon at a precarious angle, slacken the lines for me please. I was there yesterday and although I was told it had dropped about a foot, it rose to about normal again.

Julie,

 

We "overnighted" on Chalice last night, (a bit chilly on arrival, but OK once warmed up!).

 

Levels very normal there at the moment, but if I do see an issue of course I'll do what I can, and let hou know about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

its a shame to see those photos,I love stopping for a week to visit boaters and freinds in Tring around this time.

 

Last year I was late due to a stoppage at bushes lock, so I went and saw darren who was building a canoe at the time..at cowroast.as my boat was about to have her first blacking apart from new when I did it due to delays..I wanted to spend time on my own with her at cowroast..and darren done me a deal to stay a litle longer and it was great.so after the stoppage in I went or out I went.he came out on the first day and said'your going a bit over the top with the jet washing and scraping...

 

i would eat rations for months to make sure there is funds for my boat...because I built her from a sailaway shell into my santuary..

 

in the forces you look after your kit,and it looks after you,the same in the mountains,keep your kit top notch...same with your boat...maintance...and your be rewarded....

 

ive always closed locks and fill pounds properly..even when moored I do my bit around me..sometimes loads of people just can not be bothered

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Still not entirely sure how closing off use of the locks will help when they've already said that lock use isn't the problem but seepage into the surrounding land is.

Oh well. I intend to make the most of it. It's an excuse to explore a few new walks in the area, buy a bus pass to explore the joys of the Arriva 500 and watch with dismay as the Cow Roast catchment pound leaks into the drained Tring pound and grounds everyone else coz BW ain't thought that bit through. ;)

If you go to the local Council they will issue your free OAP one. (sorry, couldnt resist it. )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd be surprised if he noticed. I got the impression from local boaters that he gets the bulk of his work from the marina moorers, out of convenience (so they say) as much as anything. His prices are so high many other boaters can't or won't pay what he charges. When he quoted me £50 per hour plus VAT, I also went elsewhere. With his marina captive audience even more captive than usual he'll be raking it in as they all get their blacking done coz they can't cruise!

 

Not what he said on Friday. He could be in trouble. He may be pricey but he is very reliable, good at his job plus a thoroughly nice chap with it.

 

Julie,

 

We "overnighted" on Chalice last night, (a bit chilly on arrival, but OK once warmed up!).

 

Levels very normal there at the moment, but if I do see an issue of course I'll do what I can, and let hou know about it.

 

Thanks Alan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you go to the local Council they will issue your free OAP one. (sorry, couldnt resist it. )

Got a long wait for one of those Jel. I hope they still exist in the next quarter of a century coz I've invested loadsa my hard earned in the public transport system and I intend to travel all over the place after 9.30am when I'm in my sixties! Gotta get my money's worth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to say I would not blame lack of rain. I blame poor maintenance and spending money on things that should have been spent on LOCKS. I am near Uxbridge Lock that leaks like a goo dun and Cowley Lock is even worse.

They fixed Cowley lock about 6 weeks ago, after 2 years of leaking. I agree with you on the rest

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to say I would not blame lack of rain. I blame poor maintenance and spending money on things that should have been spent on LOCKS. I am near Uxbridge Lock that leaks like a goo dun and Cowley Lock is even worse.

 

The problem with that is that, unless you choose to say that your "well I reckon" trumps the expert opinion of the hydrologists, you aren't right.

 

As has already been outlined, the leakage through locks is negligible in the scale of the problem, and fixing every last drip through a lock gate wouldn't actually make a significant difference to the problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with that is that, unless you choose to say that your "well I reckon" trumps the expert opinion of the hydrologists, you aren't right.

 

As has already been outlined, the leakage through locks is negligible in the scale of the problem, and fixing every last drip through a lock gate wouldn't actually make a significant difference to the problem.

Yes,

 

I agree, but equally as far as the summit issue itself goes, there are a lot of unanswered questions for me.

 

I'd start with.....

 

"If the level is still much as it was a week after this emergency was declared, and as they said water used by lock usage was minimal compared to that just draining away through the canal-sides, why could the canal not have remained open for much of the last week to actually allow people a chance of getting across the summit if they had strong reasons for needing to".

 

As of yesterday the only thing stopping it being fully navigable was one set of stop planks with water at identical levels both sides, and padlocks on lock gates.

 

There are still a number of questions that have been raised here, and elsewhere, that I am interested in the answers to.

 

For example,

 

As they have allowed boats to stay on permanent offside moorings on part of the stretch that is supposed to be getting lowered, I'm at the very least interested in what happens if when lowered to planned level, it continues to drain away. Do they then still have to keep using their scarce water to top it up again to avoid the consequences of those boats being dropped on to what I'm imagining may be a very sloping canal bed ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with that is that, unless you choose to say that your "well I reckon" trumps the expert opinion of the hydrologists, you aren't right.

 

As has already been outlined, the leakage through locks is negligible in the scale of the problem, and fixing every last drip through a lock gate wouldn't actually make a significant difference to the problem.

Dave, one of the locks up there drained on me without putting paddles up! Now if a lock drains like that, it's letting 2 lots of water down on each boat. Leaking at both ends would be a lot of water in a 24 hour period. Preventative maintenance !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave, one of the locks up there drained on me without putting paddles up! Now if a lock drains like that, it's letting 2 lots of water down on each boat. Leaking at both ends would be a lot of water in a 24 hour period. Preventative maintenance !

 

I'm not trying to make any claim that the locks are anything other than leaky.

 

Merely that even the large amounts of water wasted through the locks pale into insignificance compared to the amount simple leaking through the canal bed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes,

 

I agree, but equally as far as the summit issue itself goes, there are a lot of unanswered questions for me.

 

I'd start with.....

 

"If the level is still much as it was a week after this emergency was declared, and as they said water used by lock usage was minimal compared to that just draining away through the canal-sides, why could the canal not have remained open for much of the last week to actually allow people a chance of getting across the summit if they had strong reasons for needing to".

 

As of yesterday the only thing stopping it being fully navigable was one set of stop planks with water at identical levels both sides, and padlocks on lock gates.

 

There are still a number of questions that have been raised here, and elsewhere, that I am interested in the answers to.

 

For example,

 

As they have allowed boats to stay on permanent offside moorings on part of the stretch that is supposed to be getting lowered, I'm at the very least interested in what happens if when lowered to planned level, it continues to drain away. Do they then still have to keep using their scarce water to top it up again to avoid the consequences of those boats being dropped on to what I'm imagining may be a very sloping canal bed ?

 

Alan,

 

It is hoped that the water level can be maintained so that boats can be kept floating at the Cowroast end (moorings and Marina), it also means that some use can be made of the slipway.

 

There was an idea that boats could settle on the bottom, but the marina owners resisted this.

 

Locking the paddles is a good precaution as indescriminate use of these recently (forgetting to close them overnight) to top up levels towards Berko reduced levels over the whole summit badly, almost to the level prevailing now.

 

Not all the boats on the long term moorings are badly affected, boats in the lenght towards and in the Winding hole, float in much deeper water than the rest, the moorings get more shallow at the Bulbourne end.

 

I suspect this stoppage is a precursor of things to come, especially on the Oxford Summit.

 

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having exchanged some mails this morning with Jim, (Koukouvagia) that first posted this thread, he is again in communication with BW's regional manager, Jeff Whyatt, to try and get definitive answers to a number of questions about BW's intentions.

 

I'm sure Jim will report back here when he learns anything new.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alan,

 

 

I suspect this stoppage is a precursor of things to come, especially on the Oxford Summit.

 

Mike

 

I think the Napton back-pumps can keep up with the demand on the Oxford, provided the Clayon and Marston Doles locks are opened no more than about 4 hours a day and the lockage is generally efficient.

 

At Tring I doubt that the capacity of the Northern Engines is anything like as great as the Napton pumps and still I don't know how the water would get up Maffers. The current proposal for the Northern Engines is, I think, to clear the pumps and pipes out (again) and to automate them through the BW SCADA system. That will not do much for their capacity. In any event the water table at Tring would need to rise to at least a navigable level to make any sort of lockage water provision feasible. Then of couse, if there is lots of pumping to be done there will be an electricity bill to pay- whose budget is that in?

 

The other interesting question over the next day or so will be how fast the Tring summit actually falls and how far down it goes. The final canal level will tell us where the groundwater level currently is and the rate of fall will say something about how bad the leaks are.

 

If it falls more than 300mm what will BW do? Holding it at -300mm will still cost water that isn't there.....

 

N

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At Tring I doubt that the capacity of the Northern Engines is anything like as great as the Napton pumps and still I don't know how the water would get up Maffers. The current proposal for the Northern Engines is, I think, to clear the pumps and pipes out (again) and to automate them through the BW SCADA system. That will not do much for their capacity. In any event the water table at Tring would need to rise to at least a navigable level to make any sort of lockage water provision feasible. Then of couse, if there is lots of pumping to be done there will be an electricity bill to pay- whose budget is that in?

You clearly know a lot more than I do, so I'd really like to learn more!

 

At which locks between Tring summit, and (say) Stoke Hammond is there actually any back-pump availability, please ?

 

The article in NBW says:

 

There have also been complaints of the lack of use of the back pumping system at Marsworth Locks, with boaters asking is there no money to turn it on?

 

But is there a back pump at Maffers ? If so where, because I've never noted one.

 

And north of that ? Anything at "Peters 2, for example ?"

 

Something goes on above top Seabrook lock, in as much as water flows under the towpath for some reason. But is that actually a back pump ?

 

So where does any viable back-pumping actually start to happen, please, and where are all the modern day "Northern engines" actually located ?

 

The other interesting question over the next day or so will be how fast the Tring summit actually falls and how far down it goes. The final canal level will tell us where the groundwater level currently is and the rate of fall will say something about how bad the leaks are.

 

If it falls more than 300mm what will BW do? Holding it at -300mm will still cost water that isn't there.....

 

Exactly the kind of question I am hoping BW are being pushed to answer today, (or at least soon)!

Edited by alan_fincher
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At Tring I doubt that the capacity of the Northern Engines is anything like as great as the Napton pumps and still I don't know how the water would get up Maffers.

 

I remember Gavin (ex BW water management guru) explaining all this at an open day, but I've forgotten most of the details. According to Alan Faulkener, "Originally the Marsworth engine pumped into the Railway Feeder North and hence into the Marsworth reservoir.... [later] the system was modified for the water to enter the canal above lock 38. From this pound it could be run into the Startopsend reservoir." (Grand Junction Canal. p.92). Is this still happening, I wonder?

Edited by koukouvagia
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It is hoped that the water level can be maintained so that boats can be kept floating at the Cowroast end (moorings and Marina), it also means that some use can be made of the slipway.

 

 

I gather from one of the Cowroast moorers that there is pumping at Cowroast today and the the levels in the lagoon are not too bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.