Smokeless Fuel

[furnessvale]

No idea if its (still) true, but I have heard it said that the smokeless zone legislation doesn't apply to boats (moving or tied up). If this is the case EH may have less ability to take any effective action - you have to demonstrate nuisance rather than simply that he was creating smoke in a smokeless zone.

 

David

 

Correct. The normal smokeless zone regulations to not apply to boats. The only bit of the legislation that applies is to continue to make black smoke longer than half an hour after you have lit the fire.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[peasant]

try pointing out that burning household coal will block his chimney very quickly. I have heard that the bore of a chimney will reduce to 2 inches in less than a week ,with all the attendant problems, when using ordinary coal.If that doesn't work a word with SWMBO should do the trick.

[jelunga]

I think my best course of action would be to go the the local army surplus shop and buy an S10 respirator with enough spare canisters to last till summer.

However, I have to say that the last few days have been a lot better with little air pollution. Maybe the wind direction has changed.

Thank you to all the posters with sensible suggestions. Those with less sensible comments, well at least you tried.

[Phil Ambrose]

It is entirely possible the boat burning housecoal doesn't even realise there is an issue. I would just have a quiet word and if for any reason they are not amenable how about getting a mooring upwind from them and burning brown coal? (joke). Burning housecoal in close proximity to other boats is a bit anti-social, I'd be surprised if it was allowed in the marina t&cs. A more gentle way of making the point would be to invite the occupants aboard your boat for a drink when their fire is going.

 

We had this problem with our neighbour who was pouring out thick yellow sulpherous smoke (took me back to the days of London Smog) however he had not realised that it was seeping into our boat via the mushrooms. He bought fresh supply of Taybrite and used up the offending stuff in small quantities to lessen the impact.

So just having a word worked for us.

 

Phil

[Black Ibis]

When we first bought our boat, we burnt housecoal for financial reasons. We were CCing so any nuisance would have been for two days max (48 hour only moorings around here).

 

Financially, we had very little choice. We couldn't at the time get enough money together for a coal delivery, so we had to buy from a local hardware shop and take it back to the boat on sack trucks. They were expensive, and the difference in price between housecoal and smokeless meant that we could afford to eat at the end of the month.

 

Things have sorted themselves out since and we bulk-buy smokeless, but for a time, we had no choice.

 

I quite like the idea of inviting the neighbour over whilst his fire is going!

[MtB]

Another idea is to turn you boat around. Or his. The relative change in the position of your mushrooms and his chimney may solve the problem. Or move it to the other end of your boat!

 

But as someone else pointed out, I don't see how getting him to change to smokeless fuel helps. The fumes will still be getting into your boat, you just won't be able to see them. You'll prolly still smell them (unless you have a deaf nose). I would not want 'smokeless' products of solid fuel combustion inside my boat. The newly published standard for stove installation in boats makes a big deal out of flue performance, for your safety.

[JDR]

Another idea is to turn you boat around. Or his. The relative change in the position of your mushrooms and his chimney may solve the problem. Or move it to the other end of your boat!

 

But as someone else pointed out, I don't see how getting him to change to smokeless fuel helps. The fumes will still be getting into your boat, you just won't be able to see them. You'll prolly still smell them (unless you have a deaf nose). I would not want 'smokeless' products of solid fuel combustion inside my boat. The newly published standard for stove installation in boats makes a big deal out of flue performance, for your safety.

You are breathing the main byproduct of smokeless coal right now-carbon dioxide which exists in the atmosphere at concentrations of 350-400ppm.With housecoal the main non carbon elements are sulphur, nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen.Part of that stink will be from sulphur and nitrogen dioxide. I'd prefer smokeless.

[jelunga]

You are breathing the main byproduct of smokeless coal right now-carbon dioxide which exists in the atmosphere at concentrations of 350-400ppm.With housecoal the main non carbon elements are sulphur, nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen.Part of that stink will be from sulphur and nitrogen dioxide. I'd prefer smokeless.

Yes, I agree. It is the sulphur content that is the most objectionable.

[CygnusV]

What makes you think I have not asked him? I have, several times. But when the person agrees to use smokeless but then doesn't, it really gets up my nose.

I can only move to another berth if there is one available.

Not using solid fuel, I do not know if there are significant differences in price between smokey coal and smokeless.

I shall give him a few days to use up his bag.

 

Nice new smoke alarms already fitted free last week by fire service!!

 

Maybe another approach could be to ask him to swap places with you?

[Grace and Favour]

Maybe another approach could be to ask him to swap places with you?

 

I think Mrs Jelunga may well object to living with a different chap

 

 

 

[Roger Gunkel]

These prices made me wonder if there is any regulation in the price people can charge for coal?

 

I don't know much about the regulation of energy prices. Competition between suppliers was supposed to have controlled prices when the energy sector was deregulated, but thats only worked to a limited extent.

 

Everytime electricity or gas goes up by a few pence there's a huge outcry and the energy companies are forced to justify their profits on Channel 4 News, etc. Distributors of electricity like caravan parks or marinas are prevented by law from making a profit on it, yet I see no such regulation when it comes to the price of coal?

 

Since coal is used for heating shouldn't it come under the same type of regulation? How come Jon Snow isn't interested.

 

Coals2u is one of the trading names of CPL who manufacture or import Taybrite and most of the other coals they supply. CPL seem to charge whatever they want for their products as they run a monopoly. They sell their fuel to their own distribution company and to independent didtributors. My coal consortiom last year bought 1200 25kg bags of CPL's fuel from another supplier at a lower price than CPL themselves would supply. After they realised that they had lost the order, they offered to undercut their own wholesaler which I refused. This year I was offered Taybrite at £7.50 per 25kg but turned it down in favour of Supertherm.

 

The figures shown on their site are a bit misleading, as although basic housecoal is shown as having a high heat output, one of the problems is that it has a high output for a short period of time, then low output which isn't conducive to steady heating levels. In my experience, there are no savings in cost using housecoal if you require a steady long term warmth.

 

Roger

[jelunga]

I think Mrs Jelunga may well object to living with a different chap

 

 

 

On occasion, maybe not

 

Never the less the problem is resolving itself with less smoke emissions at the moment. .

Edited December 29, 2011 by jelunga

[PiRSqwared]

Some people will always take the cheapest option in whatever they purchase, but sometimes these represent false economies - housecoal being a prime example.

 

Yes...a bit like trying to save a few pence on a bottle of vinegar.

[peasant]

Matty,where's the posh end at Sawley?

cpl informed my coalman that they would be increasing their prices whenever they wanted to and told him that if he didn't like it , he could go elsewhere for his coal.

[annaschu]

I use smokeless fuels being currently in a 'posh' marina with all sorts of very important rules. I have noticed though that sometimes thick smoke comes out of my chimney regardless - and I swept it properly back in October when we had that random late summer spell. I know it's going off topic a little but did I get some dodgy bags??

[jelunga]

Matty,where's the posh end at Sawley?

cpl informed my coalman that they would be increasing their prices whenever they wanted to and told him that if he didn't like it , he could go elsewhere for his coal.

Where we are on the South Bank lol

[Troll]

I use smokeless fuels being currently in a 'posh' marina with all sorts of very important rules. I have noticed though that sometimes thick smoke comes out of my chimney regardless - and I swept it properly back in October when we had that random late summer spell. I know it's going off topic a little but did I get some dodgy bags??

 

You could always try my coal, it comes fresh from underground, it's called boating coal, soon as I get back off holiday I will post a link

[lwilliams10]

Like many people on here I am sure that the person in question will be understanding and willing to co-operate if you speak to them in a respectful manner and explain the situation. After all smokeless fuel is not only better for the environment but also is more efficient and burns for more longer than other fuels. I think it burns 40% longer than standard coal, which will make them a saving over time.

[onionbargee]

Only a lummox uses house coal near other boats, or anything living that breathes air, it's outrageously anti social in a marina, i would not have it going on for one second. You are 100% in the right to tell him to stop it.

[Chertsey]

 

 

I had always believed that the processed smokeless fuels were higher calorific value than a standard house coal, but that site actually rates the coal as being between Taybrite and Stoveheat in calorific value, so I don't think you necessarily do have to burn more coal to produce the same heat, as some suggest.

 

 

But isn't it a higher calorific value that you don't really want? i.e. as Bizzard says, not only WILL it burn hotter, but it HAS to burn hotter - hotter than you would need on a boat. I prefer a fuel that burns slow and steady and less hot. But then I recall that Alnwick favours anthracite, which must be the hottest of all?

 

(We've been researching Stoveglow by the way, consulting a few suppliers, and heard some interesting stories... and had a very good price quoted for the two and a half tons we need)

[Machpoint005]

Just a quick thought - if he's on a residential mooring, is there any objection to his getting a longer chimney, so that the smoke (of whatever sort) passes well over the top of your boat?

[Canal Rat]

When I first started on the boat I used house coal as I like to see a flame but then came the mess. It was unbearable. I switched to smokeless as it so less messey and would burn all night. Since switching though I have noticed that not all smokeless fuel is authorised for use in smoke controled areas.

[bigcol]

Weve been buying coal from B&Q

 

£6 a 10kg bag buy 2 get 1 free

= 30 kg for £12

Then buy 50 bags at a time

 

Works out a £9.60. For 30 kg £7.80 for 25 kg

 

Don't smoke, Lasts for ages keeps in overnight

 

Smaller bags easier and cleaner to handle, and is low co2 does not smoke at all

 

Below is link

 

 

http://search.diy.com/search#w=Coal&asug=

 

Col

Edited May 19, 2012 by bigcol