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Sam

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Hello All

I have been looking at buying a narrow boat for some years . I think the time is now right .

I have looked at a few boats and 40 to 50' looks good for me with a reverse layout . 

There is one I have seen which I quite like the look of . The safety cert is about to run out . I would want a hull survey before committing . I am prepared to pay in full for this if all ok , but what is the etiquette if it fails ? I don't feel like handing it over for free to the owner if I walk away , but it would be nice to help out a different buyer . 

 

Thanks Jim

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18 minutes ago, Big Jim said:

Hello All

I have been looking at buying a narrow boat for some years . I think the time is now right .

I have looked at a few boats and 40 to 50' looks good for me with a reverse layout . 

There is one I have seen which I quite like the look of . The safety cert is about to run out . I would want a hull survey before committing . I am prepared to pay in full for this if all ok , but what is the etiquette if it fails ? I don't feel like handing it over for free to the owner if I walk away , but it would be nice to help out a different buyer . 

 

Thanks Jim

If you pay for a hull survey then it is the property of the surveyor and then you.... I.e. You cannot sell it on but the integrity of the information is yours and yours alone.

:)

I am just buying as well and would seriously look at the rules for the safety cert.....you can check this before paying for it. Why is there not one!?.....the guys on here are fab!...I am a newbie greenie, but learnt so much already :cheers:

Just now, The Grumpy Triker said:

If you pay for a hull survey then it is the property of the surveyor and then you.... I.e. You cannot sell it on but the integrity of the information is yours and yours alone.

:)

I am just buying as well and would seriously look at the rules for the safety cert.....you can check this before paying for it. Why is there not one!?.....the guys on here are fab!...I am a newbie greenie, but learnt so much already :cheers:

Which boat?...do you have a link?...always worth asking on here as many may know it and save you the cost of a survey....one way or another;)

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Thanks for the reply

This is the boat I have looked at . The cert is about to run out , and I guess I would make it a condition of sale .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/034-Joanme-034-50ft-Cruiser-Style-Narrowboat-/182615223990?

I appreciate that the survey is technically could not be transferable , but I would take into account a recent survey on a boat instructed by some one else and give me a good indication on whether  to proceed . So in my mind it has value to some one .

 

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Make it a condition of sale that any work necessary to get a BSS is at the sellers expense.

Some surveyors are also BSS examiners. This one for example, who includes also BSS inspection in the cost of the he urvey.

http://craig-allen-marine.co.uk

Edited by cuthound
To unmangle the effects of autocorrect.
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Hi all, 

Myself and my girlfriend are in the process of buying a lovely 40ft narrow boat with the hope of making some changes to kit her out as a live-aboard. 

We have found, viewed and expressed our interest to purchase, the boat so far. It's quite an old boat (1979 Hancock & Lane - Norseman (i think!)). Initially used as a holiday let, the boat has been with the same owner since 1992 and comes with a full service history (including photos and receipts of literally every change that's ever happened on it). 

The boat itself is in pretty good condition. Internally, it's a little dated but all the electrics are working, all the furniture and fittings are made from solid iroko, it has working appliances and a separate shower room. Externally, the boat is fine. It could probably do with a repaint soon as it's beginning to look a little faded. The engine looks to be in immaculate condition and starts first time every time. 

Now here's where the purchase becomes a bit of a potential gamble. 

In terms of surveys, the last time a hull survey was undertaken was in May 2010, which i have read in full, indicating less than 1mm (of the 6mm plate) of wear across the boat in its entirety. The only minor point flagged up on the survey was some slight corrosion inside the hull, next to the weed hatch, as a result of water pooling that was left un-mended for some time. The issues has since been addressed and the corrosion treated. 

The boat was blacked in 2010 and subsequently in 2013 and most recently, in May 2015. 

It has a safety certificate until 2021.  

We are intending to buy the boat without the condition that it passes a new hull survey. There's a few reasons we're taking this approach. Firstly, the boat is really quite cheap (about £10k), a hull survey could potentially add 15% onto the price of the boat, and i’m not sure we’d really be able to get a reduction in the price of the boat if works were necessary. Secondly, I am quite confident that the seller is genuine (he was very up front about all of the essential works that had taken place on the boat and was by no means doing the hard sell). Thirdly, we fully intend to carry out a survey at some point soon but simply can’t afford it at the minute and the condition of the boat, the fact it’s in water and not sinking at the minute and the included service history included put my mind slightly at ease. The opportunity to buy this boat seems to be a bit too good to pass up, but I appreciate, I am gambling on some important issues. 

I guess I’m looking for some more experienced advice. Is this a silly approach? Is there anything I should really find out that I’ve missed above? Any help or advice would be most appreciated. 

We’re due to pay the deposit tomorrow evening. I have a genuinely good feeling about the seller and fully believe his reasons for selling (back injury, which was quite apparent when he showed us the boat). Look forward to hearing any opinions on this

Many thanks,

Simon
 

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4 minutes ago, bigbadboat said:

Hi all, 

Myself and my girlfriend are in the process of buying a lovely 40ft narrow boat with the hope of making some changes to kit her out as a live-aboard. 

We have found, viewed and expressed our interest to purchase, the boat so far. It's quite an old boat (1979 Hancock & Lane - Norseman (i think!)). Initially used as a holiday let, the boat has been with the same owner since 1992 and comes with a full service history (including photos and receipts of literally every change that's ever happened on it). 

The boat itself is in pretty good condition. Internally, it's a little dated but all the electrics are working, all the furniture and fittings are made from solid iroko, it has working appliances and a separate shower room. Externally, the boat is fine. It could probably do with a repaint soon as it's beginning to look a little faded. The engine looks to be in immaculate condition and starts first time every time. 

Now here's where the purchase becomes a bit of a potential gamble. 

In terms of surveys, the last time a hull survey was undertaken was in May 2010, which i have read in full, indicating less than 1mm (of the 6mm plate) of wear across the boat in its entirety. The only minor point flagged up on the survey was some slight corrosion inside the hull, next to the weed hatch, as a result of water pooling that was left un-mended for some time. The issues has since been addressed and the corrosion treated. 

The boat was blacked in 2010 and subsequently in 2013 and most recently, in May 2015. 

It has a safety certificate until 2021.  

We are intending to buy the boat without the condition that it passes a new hull survey. There's a few reasons we're taking this approach. Firstly, the boat is really quite cheap (about £10k), a hull survey could potentially add 15% onto the price of the boat, and i’m not sure we’d really be able to get a reduction in the price of the boat if works were necessary. Secondly, I am quite confident that the seller is genuine (he was very up front about all of the essential works that had taken place on the boat and was by no means doing the hard sell). Thirdly, we fully intend to carry out a survey at some point soon but simply can’t afford it at the minute and the condition of the boat, the fact it’s in water and not sinking at the minute and the included service history included put my mind slightly at ease. The opportunity to buy this boat seems to be a bit too good to pass up, but I appreciate, I am gambling on some important issues. 

I guess I’m looking for some more experienced advice. Is this a silly approach? Is there anything I should really find out that I’ve missed above? Any help or advice would be most appreciated. 

We’re due to pay the deposit tomorrow evening. I have a genuinely good feeling about the seller and fully believe his reasons for selling (back injury, which was quite apparent when he showed us the boat). Look forward to hearing any opinions on this

Many thanks,

Simon
 

Welcome.

15% of 10k sounds like a lot for a survey. 

 

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1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

15% of 10k sounds like a lot for a survey. 

Apologies, I would expect the process of lifting out the water, the survey, and blacking (as it would make sense to do it at the same time) could cost £1000 maybe £1500. I may be wrong though... ballpark estimate

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11 minutes ago, bigbadboat said:

We are intending to buy the boat without the condition that it passes a new hull survey.

If I may just clarify something - a boat does not "PASS" a survey - it is not like an MOT. The surveyor will look at the boat and highlight any (all) of the faults with it, he will then issue a report and it is up to you to either accept or reject the boat depending on how 'risk averse' you are, or, how much additional you wish to spend on it.

Do not expect a 'pass' or 'fail' certificate.

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Just now, bigbadboat said:

Apologies, I would expect the process of lifting out the water, the survey, and blacking (as it would make sense to do it at the same time) could cost £1000 maybe £1500. I may be wrong though... ballpark estimate

Or looking at it another way, if you need to get it out of the water soon anyway for blacking (as its 2 years since the last one), the cost of a survey on top will be a few hundred quid. 

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4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Or looking at it another way, if you need to get it out of the water soon anyway for blacking (as its 2 years since the last one), the cost of a survey on top will be a few hundred quid. 

It's all an issue of timing, we have just the money to buy the boat at present, the survey and associated works will take me above the money I have available at present. Ordinarily, I would just wait and save up the rest, but I was taken with the boat immediately and i'm sure it will sell immediately. We made sure we were the first to view it, owing to some luck with spotting the ad the moment it was posted online and stating directly to the seller that we want to be first. During the viewing there were three calls regarding interest in the boat. So it does seem like a very good opportunity. However, in our current circumstances, we can only afford the boat itself. I fear by delaying the sale to save for the additionals, I would lose the boat. I am reasonably confident of the integrity of the boat and the seller, but yes, it is a gamble to get the boat I want with only just the money to pay for it. We intend to do the survey and blacking in approximately 3 months.

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9 minutes ago, bigbadboat said:

It's all an issue of timing, we have just the money to buy the boat at present, the survey and associated works will take me above the money I have available at present. Ordinarily, I would just wait and save up the rest, but I was taken with the boat immediately and i'm sure it will sell immediately. We made sure we were the first to view it, owing to some luck with spotting the ad the moment it was posted online and stating directly to the seller that we want to be first. During the viewing there were three calls regarding interest in the boat. So it does seem like a very good opportunity. However, in our current circumstances, we can only afford the boat itself. I fear by delaying the sale to save for the additionals, I would lose the boat. I am reasonably confident of the integrity of the boat and the seller, but yes, it is a gamble to get the boat I want with only just the money to pay for it. We intend to do the survey and blacking in approximately 3 months.

Well, in that case, good luck. 

 

Happy boating. 

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The short answer is "it's a gamble". No matter how honest the seller is, if he hasn't had a hull survey in 7 years then he can't possibly know the state of the hull. So, how risk-averse are you?

Odds are that it's fine. But maybe it isn't. One member here found his hull to be nearly corroded through in 12 months. 

Also, as already mentioned, you're unlikely to get fully comp insurance on a boat of that age without a survey. 

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19 minutes ago, bigbadboat said:

It's all an issue of timing, we have just the money to buy the boat at present, the survey and associated works will take me above the money I have available at present. Ordinarily, I would just wait and save up the rest, but I was taken with the boat immediately and i'm sure it will sell immediately. We made sure we were the first to view it, owing to some luck with spotting the ad the moment it was posted online and stating directly to the seller that we want to be first. During the viewing there were three calls regarding interest in the boat. So it does seem like a very good opportunity. However, in our current circumstances, we can only afford the boat itself. I fear by delaying the sale to save for the additionals, I would lose the boat. I am reasonably confident of the integrity of the boat and the seller, but yes, it is a gamble to get the boat I want with only just the money to pay for it. We intend to do the survey and blacking in approximately 3 months.

But you MAY not be able to insure that boat without a survey report.

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33 minutes ago, croftie said:

At approaching 40 years old you may find insurance companies require a recent survey so may be best to have one pre purchase rather than post and then find problems being highlighted.

Yes, I appreciate this and have thought about it. Unfortunately, as you'll see from my post above, at the minute I only have the money for the boat itself and don't want to miss out on the opportunity of this one in particular. We intend to get the boat out of the water in the next three months when we've saved up a little more money. Ordinarily, I would have waited til I had the money for the boat and survey etc. alas, this boat came up for sale and we fell for it straight away. 

I am reasonably confident that we'll be able to get insurance, but will maybe be paying a little more initially.

The boat however, has a paid up mooring until the end of August where we intend to keep it while fixing up the inside (mostly cleaning and building a new bed). Am i able to keep it in a mooring uninsured should there be issues with insurance? The mooring is on the canal, on a private towpath. I have a feeling I would need the insurance straight away. 

I'll look further in to it.

Thanks for your help  

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4 minutes ago, bigbadboat said:

The boat however, has a paid up mooring until the end of August where we intend to keep it while fixing up the inside (mostly cleaning and building a new bed). Am i able to keep it in a mooring uninsured should there be issues with insurance? The mooring is on the canal, on a private towpath. I have a feeling I would need the insurance straight away. 

I'll look further in to it.

Thanks for your help  

You should be able to get third party insurance without a, survey. 

OR try these 

https://www.insure4boats.co.uk/?ref=ppcgi4b247&gclid=CMPnx5fy7NMCFdXNGwodWOEOag&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

I have not used them myself but some people say they will insure upto 40 years without a survey. 

Edited by rusty69
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yes, I think Springers have a chequered history, if not well blacked the hulls may corrode, quite a few have needed overplating, which is v expensive.

I have gleaned this  from my researches, but you should look at youtube to see "sortofinterestinglife" and the sale od Tilly, which is now being refurbished, he sold the boat after four years, his later vlogs discusses the cost of re furb, and i think the new owners have recorded the work they have done.

 

Edited by LadyG
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40 minutes ago, LadyG said:

yes, I think Springers have a chequered history, if not well blacked the hulls may corrode, quite a few ave needed overplating, which is v expensive.<snip>

 

As will any other steel boat

 

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9 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

As will any other steel boat

 

i cant disagree, but I just kept it simple.

I saw a broker looking for boats, and  they seem to want Liverpool or Colecraft, now I thought the Colecraft boats tend to be a far better boats, am i wrong there? Or should I word it the other way .... Liverpool = clone, Colecraft = custom

Edited by LadyG
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The main reason why so many Springers have been overplated is because of their age and the thin steel (3mm steel plate - not uncommon for leisure boats of that vintage) they were originally built from.

I don't expect Sam Springer envisaged them lasting for 40 years though :P

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Hi, new member here!

Always wanted a narrowboat but have always been on a low income so it never happened. Now, later in life, we have bought a GRP cruiser to see if we like canal life, with a view to moving onto the water in retirement. We have bought a 1986 23ft Highbridge (like Dawncraft) which we can play on at weekends when not working. Look forward to learning lots on this forum!

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On 6/13/2017 at 14:19, cuthound said:

The main reason why so many Springers have been overplated is because of their age and the thin steel (3mm steel plate - not uncommon for leisure boats of that vintage) they were originally built from.

I don't expect Sam Springer envisaged them lasting for 40 years though :P

My Springer is 6mm (1989) survey shows 5.5mm in a few places.

 

 

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