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On 4/3/2017 at 10:17, Johnylee0787 said:

Hi, I've just bought a 40ft narrow boat. I'm going to completely renovate it. Has anyone got any does or Donts. I'm a carpenter by trade. So I'm really looking forward to it. A few questions I need to ask, should I put a water heater in it and central heating? I'm going to get it all re wired is there any special cable I need to use or a different type of fuse board needed?? How thick should the ply boards be for the ceiling and walls?? Any help would be great 

kind regards John 

Jonnylee i am doing exactly the same as you after buying a 40footer in November after selling my 32footer that i had just refitted myselfi am definitely NOT a carpenter but will have a go at anything i also considered fitting central heating on board but decided the logburner is sufficient to heat the boat but will be fitting a radiatior off the engine cooling system. I have just bought a Morco water heater so i have instant hot water in the taps and for the shower and always have the calorifier for hot water when engine is running there is definitely more work than i imagined but will be work it it hope !! good luck with your boat i will be watching your progress;) here is a picture of my rebuild at the moment :o     

rust 001.jpg

rust 011.jpg

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2 hours ago, NB Lola said:

Welcome, a world of knowledge here.  Are you buying a houseboat shell or a wide beam shell?  Will you have an engine?

Thanks for the warm welcome! We're buying a 9ft or 10ft (not settled as we're waiting for the final quote and a possible tax reason to do with size may mean we go for the larger size). We were torn for so long about narrowboat vs wide beam, but having spoken to various people and weighted up our own lifestyle we have made our decision! We're not getting an engine to begin with, as we'll be doing it up in a boat yard or marina (tbd) so doesn't make much sense in terms of cash flow. We've started making a 3D plan of the boat which is very exciting. Any resources or books you can recommend to help us with the fit out would be much appreciated. 

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12 minutes ago, FoxLovesCrow said:

We're buying a 9ft or 10ft (not settled as we're waiting for the final quote and a possible tax reason to do with size

If you are referring to the VAT situation, then I suggest that you read the Customs and excise web site on the subject - you will certainly will not comply with either a 9 or 10 foot beam boat and will have difficulty with even a 12 foot beam. 

There are very specific dimensions that must be complied with and when the mention weight / tonnage, they are NOT referring to the weight of the boat, but a 'fictional' weight based on the volume of the 'hold' of the boat.

If intending to buy a zero-rated boat, do not order until you have done your due-diligence, it could avert a huge mistake.

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

If you are referring to the VAT situation, then I suggest that you read the Customs and excise web site on the subject - you will certainly will not comply with either a 9 or 10 foot beam boat and will have difficulty with even a 12 foot beam. 

There are very specific dimensions that must be complied with and when the mention weight / tonnage, they are NOT referring to the weight of the boat, but a 'fictional' weight based on the volume of the 'hold' of the boat.

If intending to buy a zero-rated boat, do not order until you have done your due-diligence, it could avert a huge mistake.

Thanks, will do. We are speaking with the experts and will not place an order until we have the facts on tax exemption. Tax aside, our preference is to go for something narrower than a 12 foot beam. We used to live in a cottage which was 10 foot across, funny enough. We used to joke it was practise for the boat. 

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9 minutes ago, FoxLovesCrow said:

Thanks, will do. We are speaking with the experts and will not place an order until we have the facts on tax exemption. Tax aside, our preference is to go for something narrower than a 12 foot beam. We used to live in a cottage which was 10 foot across, funny enough. We used to joke it was practise for the boat. 

Just a slight correction - the VAT on a qualifying boat is 'ZERO RATED' which is very, very different to 'VAT EXEMPT', just ensure your 'expert' is investigating the correct terms.

Ensure you get (in writing) an agreement from either / both the manufacturer and/or your expert that the boat you buy is Zero Rated, as if it turns out not to be, it is you who have to pay the VAT to C&E (not the manufacturer). Getting hit with a (say) £20,000 bill to be paid within 7 days (which has happened to a boat buyer) is not a pleasant experience.

 

Read section 2 of the attached.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-744c-ships-aircraft-and-associated-services/vat-notice-744c-ships-aircraft-and-associated-services

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just a slight correction - the VAT on compliant boats is 'ZERO RATED' which is very, very different to 'VAT EXEMPT', just ensure your 'expert' is investigating the correct terms.

Ensure you get (in writing) an agreement from either / both the manufacturer and/or your expert that the boat you buy is Zero Rated, as if it turns out not to be, it is you who have to pay the VAT to C&E (not the manufacturer). Getting hit with a (say) £20,000 bill to be paid within 7 days (which has happened to a boat buyer) is not a pleasant experience.

Thanks, Alan! Sounds like this isn't your first rodeo :). Appreciate the heads-up and correction on my newbie terminology error. Experience has taught me that getting things in writing is always a precaution worth taking! 

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2 minutes ago, FoxLovesCrow said:

Thanks, Alan! Sounds like this isn't your first rodeo :). Appreciate the heads-up and correction on my newbie terminology error. Experience has taught me that getting things in writing is always a precaution worth taking! 

Just noticed you are in France.

If having the boat built in the UK and then shipped to France you will have further complications as you will need to comply with any French 'liveaboard' / Tax issues and MAYBE you will not get the UK manufacturer to sell it at Zero VAT (I don't know)

The fact that by the time you get the boat built we will no longer be in the EU and EU-VAT will not have been paid could be another complication - who knows ?

As far as the UK builder is concerned he will be building the boat to be exported.

Are yu looking to return to the UK and have your boat as your UK home ?

I think that before anyone can offer further advice your plans, circumstances and usage expectations would need to be clarified.

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Sec 2.6 suggests that it is not "intention" that dictates. Thus, it suggests that any boat which might have an engine fitted at some time is not exempt.

I think it is the supplier of goods who is liable for the VAT, rather than the buyer. "If" I am right, a buyer should have nothing to fear from HMRC with respect to unpaid VAT... Worth checking.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just noticed you are in France.

If having the boat built in the UK and then shipped to France you will have further complications as you will need to comply with any French 'liveaboard' / Tax issues and MAYBE you will not get the UK manufacturer to sell it at Zero VAT (I don't know)

The fact that by the time you get the boat built we will no longer be in the EU and EU-VAT will not have been paid could be another complication - who knows ?

As far as the UK builder is concerned he will be building the boat to be exported.

Are yu looking to return to the UK and have your boat as your UK home ?

I think that before anyone can offer further advice your plans, circumstances and usage expectations would need to be clarified.

Good spot! We are temporarily living in France, having just saved up enough for the basic build and plan to return to the UK later this year before (fingers crossed) getting on with our boat dreams. Our work-in-progress plan is to move back to the UK after spring, work on the boat once built to get it to a minimum viable point where we can live aboard, before then using it as a home and carrying on work. The date of order is a moving target but we've had some initial conversations with a boat builder (Tyler Wilson who seem to come highly recommended) about build slots and quotes. Our working assumption is that there will be VAT as I doubt we'll hit the size/volume. At this point we are doing our homework, trying to equip ourselves with the knowledge we need to make this a success. Any reference sources or books that you recommend would be highly appreciated. Thanks again! 

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I am looking for a used narrowboat, I have no time for fit outs etc. I want to do as little as possible before I start to use it - I also have a lot of the world to visit and declining years in which to do it!

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On 28/12/2017 at 09:00, Scholar Gypsy said:

It's no good, I still can't work out why you went up a lock.

 

Maybe you went for a spin on the Trent and Nottingham and then locked back in to the canal? Or did you explore a bit of the Erewash?

Aye, we came out of Mersey/Trent, from the Sawley Cut into River Trent and then up into Beeston Canal.  Erwash is on the to-do-list as one of HRH's daughters lives nearby at Eastwood. :-)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Morning! I'm soon to retire (well -2 years and counting) and very close to making the momentous decision to move into a permanent liveaboard to enjoy my dotage. I've always enjoyed my time on the waterways and feel emotionally drawn to the life.

I'm researching like crazy and will be up at Crick in May to soak up all I can in the way of opinions and options for my perfect boat. 

I'm finding resources like this to be a great entrée into the life and I have so many questions. I'll do some more reading before I launch in with any immediate questions.

Thanks for your patience in advance.

 

KitKat2069

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Hi

I am Greg usually known as Karrier Bag online but that had been taken here already, unless I joined already  without realising it? I specialise in Dodge 50 vehicles, UK built between 1979 and 93, Perkins engines spicer gearboxes..... as well as other stuff, like I ran the UKs smallest touring circus for over 25 years, performed on tv and at Buckingham palace but I don' like the attention I get when out and about so i stopped all that high profile stuff and kept it all low key ish.

I am looking at starting boat engine repairs and recovery as I have 35 years experience on Perkins and BMC etc, also welding / fabricating and general bodge/ work arounds.

Have a land rover so can get most places and a boat for the times only a water borne vehicle can reach the target.

Anyhoo, I've been on the water for about 16 months now, we got a Norman 23 with 2.2bmc  but after 15 months living on Lady Fee we were nearly killing each other due to so little room lol, so on Jan 3rd this year I went and got another boat so we have one each, it' a Colvic, think a northerner, tip of bow to stern is 31.6ft but online it' registered as 28.6ft (maybe length in water) built in 1970 index number is 120066.

Bmc 2.52 and a river / sea gearbox (not sure how to change gear but I haven' had a good look yet)), engine is very clean and looked after.

I am also fed up with farcebook sorry Facebook and prefer the old style forums like this one so it' nice to be posting somewhere new.

I have lots of practical experiance with stuff like solar and wind power and have fitted out wheeled vehicles with burners and living spaces.

A couple of pics of my new boat are below.

Greg

s-l1600.jpg

20180103_133933.jpg

20171228_113313.jpg

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On 05/01/2018 at 10:54, Richard10002 said:

Sec 2.6 suggests that it is not "intention" that dictates. Thus, it suggests that any boat which might have an engine fitted at some time is not exempt.

I think it is the supplier of goods who is liable for the VAT, rather than the buyer. "If" I am right, a buyer should have nothing to fear from HMRC with respect to unpaid VAT... Worth checking.

Unpaid tax is deemed to be unpaid by the end user, the supplier only collects and pays C&E on behalf of the end user  Think if it like buying say a bicycle, it costs £100 + VAT, the customer pays the cost of £100+ VAT The seller then just hands the VAT to C&E.

Phil 

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25 minutes ago, Phil Ambrose said:

Unpaid tax is deemed to be unpaid by the end user, the supplier only collects and pays C&E on behalf of the end user  Think if it like buying say a bicycle, it costs £100 + VAT, the customer pays the cost of £100+ VAT The seller then just hands the VAT to C&E.

Phil 

But if the seller invoices you £100 + VAT and you do a runner without paying the tax man will still chase him for the VAT even if it bankrupts him

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

But if the seller invoices you £100 + VAT and you do a runner without paying the tax man will still chase him for the VAT even if it bankrupts him

Which is why payment is usually demanded before goods are handed over 

A jolly good system too if I may say so 

Phil 

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2 hours ago, Phil Ambrose said:

Which is why payment is usually demanded before goods are handed over 

A jolly good system too if I may say so 

Phil 

So if Jimmy the boat builder sells you a wide beam and doesn't collect the VAT off you then surly he is responsible for giving the VAT to the tax man and then suing you for it if he can find you.

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23 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

So if Jimmy the boat builder sells you a wide beam and doesn't collect the VAT off you then surly he is responsible for giving the VAT to the tax man and then suing you for it if he can find you.

The manufacturers of fat-boats have got wise to their responsibilities and several people have been caught out by the builders T&C's.

Here is a warning recently published - it is important to read the small print before taking on a £100,000 boat that then turns out to have an additional £20,000 VAT liability attached to it.

A word of warning…

It is vital as a ‘Purchaser’ you read all the contractual documentation regarding the purchase of any vessels and in particular VAT free vessels. There’s been a case highlighted to us where a boat had been sold as ‘VAT free’ unfortunately on incorrect grounds which post sale lead to the HMRC correctly chasing the seller for the VAT which should have been charged. In this particular case the contract of sale placed the responsibility to satisfy any such VAT claim on the purchaser so they had to stump up.

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

So if Jimmy the boat builder sells you a wide beam and doesn't collect the VAT off you then surly he is responsible for giving the VAT to the tax man and then suing you for it if he can find you.

Alan has it right, Jimmy the boat builder as a professional and a business man should have all angles covered in his T&Cs and would never let this happen 

Phil  

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On 1/5/2018 at 09:55, Chas78 said:

Jonnylee i am doing exactly the same as you after buying a 40footer in November after selling my 32footer that i had just refitted myselfi am definitely NOT a carpenter but will have a go at anything i also considered fitting central heating on board but decided the logburner is sufficient to heat the boat but will be fitting a radiatior off the engine cooling system. I have just bought a Morco water heater so i have instant hot water in the taps and for the shower and always have the calorifier for hot water when engine is running there is definitely more work than i imagined but will be work it it hope !! good luck with your boat i will be watching your progress;) here is a picture of my rebuild at the moment :o     

rust 001.jpg

rust 011.jpg

above all else line the shell with foam

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Hi I'm Alastair,

A couple of months ago me and my wife June bought our first boat. It is a narrowboat but not a proper one. I doubt we would ever be able to afford a good STEEL one, so we bought a 32ft GRP [I can hear the booing and hissing already] Highbridge. I think I paid over the odds for it but I had a time constraint and had just missed 2 the previous month [none have come up since].

The boat is I think 1982 ish and although quite original, it has been un-loved even neglected for the last few years and we are hoping to get it back up to scratch in time. BUT I'm new to boats and very much a novice at DIY. I WILL have lots of stupid very basic questions the first one of is,

I have made up 2 seats/steps for the front well deck out of Buffalo board. I have searched the forum and found that I should use epoxy to seal the edges [great].

Would that be epoxy paint, epoxy glue, epoxy fiberglass resin, epoxy sealer or do I just go into B+Q and ask for a big tin of Epoxy and they'll give me the right stuff

THANKS for any advice

Alastair

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