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17 hours ago, shiprat said:

Hi all. I'm Jackie. This is my first post but I've been stalking the forum and accumulating knowledge for a while.

After many narrowboat holidays we've finally gone and bought our own. Proud owners of a '97 Ledgard built cruiser stern - you seem to quite like them on here ;)

We are newbies to owning a boat so please forgive all inane questions I post from hereon in.

Not for living on (yet) but planning on lots of weekends and spontaneous weeks cruising. First outing tomorrow. Very excited!

Welcome aboard and hope the outing went well

17 hours ago, shiprat said:

Hi all. I'm Jackie. This is my first post but I've been stalking the forum and accumulating knowledge for a while.

After many narrowboat holidays we've finally gone and bought our own. Proud owners of a '97 Ledgard built cruiser stern - you seem to quite like them on here ;)

We are newbies to owning a boat so please forgive all inane questions I post from hereon in.

Not for living on (yet) but planning on lots of weekends and spontaneous weeks cruising. First outing tomorrow. Very excited!

Welcome aboard and hope the outing went well

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Hello all,

 

Im new to Narrowboats.

Ive just retired and sold my house and am on the search for a boat.

Its all very confusing though I am sort of getting there with a growing list of requirements but one thing vexes me.

Are there Hull manufacturers to avoid?

 

Many Thanks

Michael

Edited by Michael2020
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Remember a budget built boat will always be a budget built boat no matter how much you spend on it.

 

Perhaps of more importance is  age of the boat and its steel thickness specifications 10-6-4 or thicker good, 4-4-3 and old  start running away.

 

The two I would avoid now are Springer (too old with by and large thin pates) and Liverpool boats and successor companies because they are budget boats and early ones had an odd roof to cabin side fitting that trapped impossible to remove rust.

 

maybe it would be more productive to learn about recognising tack welded and filled rubbing bands and such like.

 

I am sure you will get plenty of responses.

 

PS so called boat builders are often just fitters out of bought in shells

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Hi our names. Are Tom and Lucie  , our dogs molly ,Masie, teddy .’ we have bought our boat and in the process of refitting it totally   Grateful for any advice I can get  on here  from all you knowledge people  may be able to buy you a pint when we meet on the cut  cheers

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42 minutes ago, tomryangericks said:

Hi our names. Are Tom and Lucie  , our dogs molly ,Masie, teddy .’ we have bought our boat and in the process of refitting it totally   Grateful for any advice I can get  on here  from all you knowledge people  may be able to buy you a pint when we meet on the cut  cheers

 

Hi Tom and Lucie, welcome to the wonderful world of boating ?

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Hi there folk, don't let the name fool ya, I'm Dan, recently decided to buy a boat and possibly move in, absolute newbie but been watching lots of guides and videos on youtube and practicing by helping folk at local locks.
Got to bring a beautiful 27ft boat bk from Bath to Nottingham.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Looking forwards to the nautical life.
Not quite a captain so feel free to call me Lieutenant Dan.

20201023_151138.jpg

Edited by InfectedFred
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If you intend to live on it make sure you have loads of wollys the thick socks/ GRP boats tend to be not well insulated.

 

Well done at least you are moving it in the best direction, away from Bath to Nottingham, most seem to go the other way.

 

Question, what's its beam? It looks 6ft 10in but if its much wider you will need to book a lorry.

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He needs some form of heating, gas is available (I have one to sell , lol) , but it is expensive to run, if there is intention to stay on bosrd at night in winter, then a marina with shoreline (electric) is a quick fix, installing a solidfuel stove in a wee boat like this that may be tricky, so that leaves deisel heating system, , again not a quick fix.

There are also tiny charcoal stoves which give out a small amount of heat but may require constant fuelling. The one I am thinking of has a fairly small bore flue.

 

Bridgedale merino socks and Damart long johns plus a four season sleeping bag, it's better to sleep with ventilation than in a rain forest!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by LadyG
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On 28/10/2020 at 22:12, InfectedFred said:

Hi there folk, don't let the name fool ya, I'm Dan, recently decided to buy a boat and possibly move in, absolute newbie but been watching lots of guides and videos on youtube and practicing by helping folk at local locks.
Got to bring a beautiful 27ft boat bk from Bath to Nottingham.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Looking forwards to the nautical life.
Not quite a captain so feel free to call me Lieutenant Dan.

(...I edited your photo out to save people's screen space!)

My tips:

1. Turn left at Reading, because the route up the Oxford canal then on to Fradley Junction is probably easier than going right down river, doing the tidal bit from Teddington to Brentford then up the GU joining the Oxford canal at Braunston (or the alternative route via Leicester). Also cheaper, because it's possible and legal to do the Reading to Oxford transit (a lovely stretch of river) on a "one day" EA "registration" if you're quick. But a week would be plenty if you want to do another nice bit of river instead, i.e. Reading to Teddington, in order to go via Brentford.

 

 2. Have a crew member on the trip if your boat has the space, it's easier two handed. Ideally someone with local knowledge, handy in places like Woolhampton, Reading and Oxford. But there are topics you can read on the forum about these places, or about navigating the K&A, Thames, etc. in general. It's wise to do some research.

Definitely read up about the Thames and Trent, they're big rivers but not too tough; just keep a good lookout for the signs and other craft. If you don't have a crew member with local knowledge, a guide book would be a good idea.

 

3. Try to choose nice weather; life on an unheated GRP boat will be more comfortable in the sunny south on a good day than on the Trent in winter. But actually, when I once went on the Trent in winter I was allocated the motor cabin of a pair, someone built up its stove fire before we went to the pub for the evening, and the cabin was so toasty hot overnight that I slept with the back doors open to cool me down!

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  • 2 weeks later...

IHi. Pete and Theresa here. We will be new to boating once our boat is built! I am renovating a vintage Ruston 3 cylinder to propel Lillie Jean along our wonderful waterways and can't wait until the launch, which will be July 2021. Looking forward to meeting fellow boaters. We have done the Llangollen in a hired 57 footer so are battle hardened to the pros and cons ( well, not as green as we were before we did that trip anyhoo). 

16054438368716749712263930015780.jpg

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6 minutes ago, Peter Duddigan said:

IHi. Pete and Theresa here. We will be new to boating once our boat is built! I am renovating a vintage Ruston 3 cylinder to propel Lillie Jean along our wonderful waterways and can't wait until the launch, which will be July 2021

How did you manage to get that engine past the RCD emission rules ?

(or is Lillie a copy of a traditional historic boat ?)

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3 hours ago, Peter Duddigan said:

By fitting a catalytic converter and an add blue system in the exhaust

 

 

Can you expand on this please?  I thought the engine needed official type certification, not just adding emission control systems.  If you are saying you can tweak an old engine to get it up to RCD standards, there are going to be a lot of happy brass polishers out there!  

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As @TheBiscuits implied, how much did/will it cost to get it tested and approval issued. Also who will/did do the testing and issue the approval.

 

I thought there were noise limits as well.

 

Are you fitting particle filters in the exhaust and if so how will you get the temperate to regenerate them during canal use? I am far from sure the cat will get hot enough for much of canal cruising.

 

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RCD standards are for commercial building and selling of craft. As far I know there are no restrictions on running a vintage engine for personal use although some canals in city areas will soon enforce electric only craft. The way round this for vintage engined craft is to install an electric power plant in the drive train to take over in restricted areas, quite possible to do, creating a hybrid boat. Slow running vintage engines don't run hot enough for modern dpf exhaust systems but it's quite possible to fit an ad blue gas cartridge system in conjunction with a Selective catalytic converter reducer in the exhaust system altho at a considerable cost. Dpf systems are a bain to modern diesel engine owners, the replacement costs are high and breakdowns occurr all too often. The engine has to be run hard and fast for the system to work properly so defeats the object of 'Green running'. Often truck drivers have to park up in a layby and fast run the engine to heat up the exhaust and burn out the build up of soot for 45minutes before being able to carry on. In short, the oil burning/diesel engine has had its day, but meanwhile I believe the vintage engine owner is safe to run his engine for personal use until he is either taxed out of existence or forced to park up forever. I shall be fitting a cat and ad blue system to my vintage engine but that's my choice. I'm fitting it in my boat and that's that. 

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24 minutes ago, Peter Duddigan said:

RCD standards are for commercial building and selling of craft. As far I know there are no restrictions on running a vintage engine for personal use

I think you may have either been misled or are misunderstanding.

The R in RCD is "Recreational", and ONLY applies to craft in recreational use.

 

IF you boat is being built by a commercial operation and selling it to you then IT MUST by law be built to RCD requirements.

If you are building the boat yourself you can elect not to comply with the RCD but then it is illegal to sell the boat for 5 years after 'being placed on the market' (ie in use, completed, put onto the water)

 

The 2017 RCD updates now means that even Sailaway boats MUST comply with the full requirements.

 

Your builder must issue a Certificate of Conformity, which is a legal document, if he 'lies'and says he has fitted a compliant engine when he hasn't he could be in very serious trouble.

 

The new Directive has effectively put an end to Sailaway boats (completed to all variety of levels) being supplied with an Annex lll(a) Declaration as was previously possible under Directive 94/25/EU. Under the new Directive (2013/53/EU) Sailaways (including hull only) would need to be supplied as completed craft.

Therefore for anyone purchasing a narrow boat sailaway from 18th January 2017 must ensure you have the necessary paperwork from your boat builder that is required of a ‘completed’ craft up to the current point of completion, this includes:

  • A builders plate – makers details and technical information
  • A CE mark
  • A Craft or Hull Identification Number (CIN or HIN) – it is carried in two places on the boat; one should be hidden for security.
  • An owners manual with information needed to use and maintain the boat safety
  • A declaration of conformity (DoC)

A CE marked craft shows the craft is compliant when it was placed on the market for the first time. It remains valid unless a major alteration to the craft takes place which would require a re-assessment of the craft.

‘Major Craft Conversion’ would be applicable to the fit out of the majority of sailaway boats, and needs to be factored in when planning your fit out. Once you have completed the fit out of your sailway boat, the boat would require a Post Construction Assessment and the documentation, builders plate and CE markings all need to be updated. Although a self assessment is possible, it is not recommended as the fitter would resume all responsibility as the manufacturer and it is also a lengthy and involved process. In the worse case scenario, it could mean you are held criminally responsible if the boat sank and there was loss of life. It is recommended that you appoint a professional to complete the post construction assessment, this would be at of cost of around £2000.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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35 minutes ago, Peter Duddigan said:

I shall be fitting a cat and ad blue system to my vintage engine but that's my choice. I'm fitting it in my boat and that's that. 

 

Thanks for the explanation.

 

I though you'd found a loophole in the new RCD regulations that allowed you to get one single engine certified for a new build boat, but it appears you haven't.

 

It's going to be a bit tricky though - your boatbuilder has to certify a full RCD when they sell you the boat, and they can't with a non-certified engine installed.  If you choose to buy the boat engineless then install your engine, you are making a "Major Craft Conversion" so would be obliged to get a post construction assessment done - and that is your responsibility legally.

 

This may help - or not!

https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/legal/buying-a-boat/Pages/recreational-craft-directive.aspx

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Thanks Alan. All points noted. I meant the commercial building of recreational craft. As I am fitting my engine in a reconditioned hull, not a new one, I shan't be going the RCD route. I shall still install exhaust emissions controls all the same. 

Thanks Biscuits. Points noted. 

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3 minutes ago, Peter Duddigan said:

Thanks Alan. All points noted. I meant the commercial building of recreational craft. As I am fitting my engine in a reconditioned hull, not a new one, I shan't be going the RCD route. I shall still install exhaust emissions controls all the same. 

As a self build that is certainly an option open to you, but I would just point out (again) the bit about not being able to sell it for 5 years. You may have no plans to sell, but unfortunately changes in our lives can have a major affect on what happens in the future.

 

A few years ago I purchased a boat in Europe where the RCD documentation had been lost, and, as it is a requirement to have it, I negotiated the price down by £80,000, and it was accepted.

That is the 'value' of having the correct paperwork if you need to sell.

Admittedly the UK is not quite as stringent on paperwork as the EU, and you could always find a buyer who is not aware of the RCD.

 

Anyway, good luck with your build.

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