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[Alison Fitzgerald]

Dear Dr Bob,

Thank you for your input here, most appreciated.  We are still planning where to start and where to finish as we will be using this trip to visit family and friends along the way.  We most likely will need to travel by train in between canals in order to get around to see one and all.  We have friends as far north as Darlington Yorkshire, and as far south as Teignmouth in Devon with a sprinkling of family in Faversham Kent so as you can see it is going to be well spread out.  I don't imagine we will be able to do it all on a canal boat hence the train plan in between.  

Yes I imagine the cost will be up there as far as hiring a boat goes, but it's like hiring a car these days and we're used to high costs for rental vehicles, after all we charged moonbeams for our motorcycles (over $300 per day for some) so its relative I think.  As there will be just the two of us we won't need a huge one, I'm thinking 48ft long for a two person boat?  Or are there smaller ones?  Tim and Prue were handling 60ft long ones at times, which to me seemed a bit too big for what we need.  Also the handling would be harder I imagine..or at least that was my impression. 

Things I'm curious about at the moment are the practical ones like how do they refuel and where, and power on board.  Do you need to recharge regularly?  I can't say I've noticed any fueling up or power charging with Tim and Prue!  Also water storage and do you empty the bilges anywhere?  I'm hoping to get a fully equipped long boat that has a shower and loo etc but there is the laundry issue as well to think of.  Laundrettes along the way perhaps?  Once again I didn't see any of that with Tim and Prunella.  Are there any good instruction videos or programmes you could recommend we watch?  

I'm afraid we will have to be there during the high season which is our winter time, there really is no getting around that and also we do want to be doing this in the best time for the weather so I'm thinking around July/August for us.  

Once again I really appreciate your comments and any wise offerings are gratefully received!

Kind regards

Alison

 

[restlessnomad]

7 minutes ago, Alison Fitzgerald said:

Dear Dr Bob,

Thank you for your input here, most appreciated.  We are still planning where to start and where to finish as we will be using this trip to visit family and friends along the way.  We most likely will need to travel by train in between canals in order to get around to see one and all.  We have friends as far north as Darlington Yorkshire, and as far south as Teignmouth in Devon with a sprinkling of family in Faversham Kent so as you can see it is going to be well spread out.  I don't imagine we will be able to do it all on a canal boat hence the train plan in between.  

Yes I imagine the cost will be up there as far as hiring a boat goes, but it's like hiring a car these days and we're used to high costs for rental vehicles, after all we charged moonbeams for our motorcycles (over $300 per day for some) so its relative I think.  As there will be just the two of us we won't need a huge one, I'm thinking 48ft long for a two person boat?  Or are there smaller ones?  Tim and Prue were handling 60ft long ones at times, which to me seemed a bit too big for what we need.  Also the handling would be harder I imagine..or at least that was my impression. 

Things I'm curious about at the moment are the practical ones like how do they refuel and where, and power on board.  Do you need to recharge regularly?  I can't say I've noticed any fueling up or power charging with Tim and Prue!  Also water storage and do you empty the bilges anywhere?  I'm hoping to get a fully equipped long boat that has a shower and loo etc but there is the laundry issue as well to think of.  Laundrettes along the way perhaps?  Once again I didn't see any of that with Tim and Prunella.  Are there any good instruction videos or programmes you could recommend we watch?  

I'm afraid we will have to be there during the high season which is our winter time, there really is no getting around that and also we do want to be doing this in the best time for the weather so I'm thinking around July/August for us.  

Once again I really appreciate your comments and any wise offerings are gratefully received!

Kind regards

Alison

 

you have plenty of time, please watch this vlog, its made by an ex journalist, it starts with him buying the boat

each episode has a theme, most of them about the canals he visiting but also has post about cost, toilet, laundry etc, just click on relevant video and watch.

otherwise if you are like me, watch them all.

 

 

[Alison Fitzgerald]

Thank you this is brilliant!  

 

[Cheese]

39 minutes ago, Alison Fitzgerald said:

...Things I'm curious about at the moment are the practical ones like how do they refuel and where, and power on board.  Do you need to recharge regularly?  I can't say I've noticed any fueling up or power charging with Tim and Prue!  Also water storage and do you empty the bilges anywhere?  I'm hoping to get a fully equipped long boat that has a shower and loo etc but there is the laundry issue as well to think of.  Laundrettes along the way perhaps?

If you are hiring for just a week, you shouldn't need to refuel, or empty the waste tanks, or get new gas supplies; as these would be handled by the hire company on changeover day.  If looking to hire for a longer period, particularly if more than two weeks, then you will have to think more about these - the hire company may have some recommendations

 

You will need to get water more frequently; there are taps are marked points along the canal.

 

Electrical power on board is via batteries recharged from the engine, so if you are cruising every day it shouldn't be an issue.  Charge up items like phones while cruising, to minimise battery use in the evenings.  The hire company probably won't permit any appliances with a high power draw, like irons or hairdryers.

 

(It might be worth splitting this discussion out to a separate topic, as more people will probably see it and throw in ideas)

[bertiebasset]

Good evening.

The name is Robert and I am thinking of joining the "afloat" people again.

A little history: Spent 12 years in the Royal Navy finishing after 7 years in small boats that sink. Obtained my HGV class 1 license and spent the rest of my life until 60 living in a small away from home in the truck,  whilst working 15 hours most days. Latterly on the continent then driver assessment and training.

Since retirement at age 60 I bought a 28ft sailboat and kept it at Wells Next the Sea before selling due to lack of use and SWMBO having zero interest in boating. During this time I did delivery work and enjoyed trips from Venice in a 56 footer, Scotland to Eastbourne and various others.

We purchased a motorhome 5 years ago and changed it 3 years ago to one we liked better.

Having had the travelling bug for most of my life I enjoy the 2 month trips to Spain and France but now find it frustrating to have the moho parked up outside and not using it over the winter period,  but again held back by the other half who dotes on the grandchildren so will not be away for any great length of time nor for too many periods in the year.

I now find myself looking at narrow boats and thinking I could spend most, if not all, the year wandering around the network. I realise this would mean many changes to the two of us but sure she could visit on occasions to suit her.

Obvious problems are the selling of the motorhome but also at the age of 69 I do wonder if I would be safe on my own. I am a little overweight but physically fit and mentally good to be on my own for long periods of time. I am mechanically minded so having a boat with problems would not be a bother. 

I have been looking at brokers online and seen a few that would appeal although, so far, have not visited any to view but looking for a 40 to 40 ft narrow boat around the £30 - 35k mark. 

Wondered if any boaters out there can see any problems or have possibly been in a similar position to me.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

38 minutes ago, bertiebasset said:

Good evening.

The name is Robert and I am thinking of joining the "afloat" people again.

A little history: Spent 12 years in the Royal Navy finishing after 7 years in small boats that sink. Obtained my HGV class 1 license and spent the rest of my life until 60 living in a small away from home in the truck,  whilst working 15 hours most days. Latterly on the continent then driver assessment and training.

Since retirement at age 60 I bought a 28ft sailboat and kept it at Wells Next the Sea before selling due to lack of use and SWMBO having zero interest in boating. During this time I did delivery work and enjoyed trips from Venice in a 56 footer, Scotland to Eastbourne and various others.

We purchased a motorhome 5 years ago and changed it 3 years ago to one we liked better.

Having had the travelling bug for most of my life I enjoy the 2 month trips to Spain and France but now find it frustrating to have the moho parked up outside and not using it over the winter period,  but again held back by the other half who dotes on the grandchildren so will not be away for any great length of time nor for too many periods in the year.

I now find myself looking at narrow boats and thinking I could spend most, if not all, the year wandering around the network. I realise this would mean many changes to the two of us but sure she could visit on occasions to suit her.

Obvious problems are the selling of the motorhome but also at the age of 69 I do wonder if I would be safe on my own. I am a little overweight but physically fit and mentally good to be on my own for long periods of time. I am mechanically minded so having a boat with problems would not be a bother. 

I have been looking at brokers online and seen a few that would appeal although, so far, have not visited any to view but looking for a 40 to 40 ft narrow boat around the £30 - 35k mark. 

Wondered if any boaters out there can see any problems or have possibly been in a similar position to me.

 

Welcome.

 

Whilst you are fit and healthy enough it will not be a problem - It may be advisable to keep 'on foot on the land' and keep your house (or downsize) so you have somewhere to go when the inevitable does happen. Rent it out and you have an income to keep the boat running.

 

 

You'll recognise this - us in our 'Cat'

 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[system 4-50]

I am 72 and in consequence I do not boat when there's frost on the steel, it is just too slippery. Some winters have less frost than others, but even this year I nearly got caught out when the boat steel was hot to the touch at lunchtime but had a layer of frost on the roof by 6pm! Not seen that before!

[Dr Bob]

69 is not too old. We did our lumpy boat sailing between 50 and 65 but hauling down the main in a 40 knot wind was getting too much. We are approaching 68 but it helps if your wife is into canals. Just stay fit and no problem.  

Rusty's 69 isn't he??

[bertiebasset]

Alan Hi, yes it does look familiar. Had my boat at Fosdyke to start with but the tidal flow was so aggressive moved to Wells after a year then sold it about a year later.

 

4-50 Thanks for the response. I can understand what you are saying as I often had to stop myself falling off a 40' trailer when icy.

 

Dr Bob, Thanks. Yes, I remember taking a 46' er from Soton to Palma and after problems with generator caught a F9 in the bay,, Not funny at 63. ?

[bertiebasset]

23 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

I am 72 and in consequence I do not boat when there's frost on the steel, it is just too slippery. Some winters have less frost than others, but even this year I nearly got caught out when the boat steel was hot to the touch at lunchtime but had a layer of frost on the roof by 6pm! Not seen that before!

Hi again 4-50. Do I take it that you are not a CC. This is something I am intending to do so if it is frosty would it be pertinent to move over a couple of hours a day so not putting oneself in danger ?

[system 4-50]

1 minute ago, bertiebasset said:

Hi again 4-50. Do I take it that you are not a CC. This is something I am intending to do so if it is frosty would it be pertinent to move over a couple of hours a day so not putting oneself in danger ?

Sorry, don't understand the question.  If you CC then you have to move as required by the regulations.  If it is frosty on the boat surfaces and surrounds (whatever time of day it is) then there is a risk in doing anything outside the boat at that time.  Managing the two is part of that style of boating.  There have been winters where it has stayed below freezing for weeks at a time.

[bertiebasset]

Hi again 4-50. I was asking if you are a CC'er or not. I realise the requirement for CC'ing is to keep moving. What I was asking was: Is it acceptable to move on a daily basis but only for a couple of hours whilst the ice has thawed on the boat's deck to maintain ones own safety.

I would have thought the cut comes to a virtual standstill if the temperature is below freezing for a period of time as I would not wish to become an ice breaker,,, also would not want the ice floe to be knocking on the hull of my boat.

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by bertiebasset

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, bertiebasset said:

I would not wish to become an ice breaker,,, also would not want the ice floe to be knocking on the hull of my boat.

You had best review your decision to own a CC NB then.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bertiebasset]

Would expect the first clip as it is a working boat. Cannot do the blacking much good though. ?

Alan.  In the second clip the ice did not seem too thick and indeed it petered out after a short time/distance. Surely if it is really thick it is unwise to move through it unless in an emergency not just to maintain CC movement. ??

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, bertiebasset said:

Would expect the first clip as it is a working boat. Cannot do the blacking much good though. ?

Alan.  In the second clip the ice did not seem too thick and indeed it petered out after a short time/distance. Surely if it is really thick it is unwise to move through it unless in an emergency not just to maintain CC movement. ??

Many CCers will take a 5 or 6 month 'Winter mooring'.

Even then you are still expected to make the required 'annual distances' in the remaining 6 or 7 months.

 

Ice doesn't do much (any) damage to the boat, maybe a little to the blacking but not as much as canal water with diesel in it that dissolves the blacking, hence the need to re-black every couple of years.

[bertiebasset]

Thanks Alan I must read up fully on the CC requirements. I knew there is a requirement to move but was not aware of any annual distance requirements. 

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, bertiebasset said:

Thanks Alan I must read up fully on the CC requirements. I knew there is a requirement to move but was not aware of any annual distance requirements. 

All C&RT say is that if you have a 'RANGE' exceeding 20 miles they are unlikely to start enforcement proceedings.

Note this is 'range' not distance travelled

 

This is to minimise folks who 'hang around' in one area because of kids at school,. work etc etc.

 

So if you are 'centred' at "A" then during the year you should be seen and logged (as a minimum) 20 miles away from "A"

 

Bit more here :

London Enforcement Manager Simon Cadek sent an email to a boater who was warned that they were on course for failing their six month restricted licence, telling them what they would need to do to pass.
The email is on public record as part of advice to boaters in the London Boaters Facebook group and dates from the end of 2016.

“When we are looking at boat movements we are looking for characteristics of bona fide navigation, these fall roughly into four categories:

· Range: by range we mean the furthest points a boat has travelled on the network, not merely the total distance travelled. While the BW act does not stipulate what that distance is the Trust has previously said that anyone travelling a range of less than say 20 miles (32km) would struggle to satisfy the Trust that they are engaged in bona fide navigation and that normally we would expect a greater range.
. For the avoidance of doubt, a small number of long journeys over a short period of time, followed or preceded by cruising in a small are of the network would not generally satisfy the Trust that you are engaged in bona fide navigation.
· Overstaying: we look to see how often boats overstay, either the 14 day limit on the main length of the canal, or shorter periods where local signage dictates, for example short stay visitor moorings.

While we are flexible with the occasional overstay from most boaters due to breakdown, illness or other emergencies, we will look at the overall pattern balanced with range and movement pattern in order to form a view.
Overstay reminders are issued when a boat is seen in the same area for more than 14 days. While we are unable to say how far you need to travel each time you move, we would advise that you normally travel further than a few km each time.
This will prevent you from getting reminders and depending on the length of other trips you make and how many times you turn back on yourself, should increase your overall range over the course of your licence.

· Movement: Continuous Cruiser Licences are intended for bona fide (genuine) navigation around the network, rather than for a boat to remain in one mooring spot, place neighbourhood or area.

We would expect boats on these licences to move around the network such that they don’t gravitate back to favoured areas too often i.e. in a way that it’s clear to us that they’re living in a small area of the waterway.

The basic principle of this is that these licences are not intended for living in an area and if it looks like a boat is habitually returning to a particular part of the waterway then this would not generally satisfy the Trust.

Within an acceptable range we’d expect a genuine movement, so for example it would not satisfy the Trust if a boat went on a 60 mile trip during the course of say two weeks, then returned to cruise in an area of say 5 miles the remainder of the time (figures are examples only).

Generally speaking, the smaller the range the less we’d expect to see boats back at the same locations. Of course people need to turn around and they’re perfectly free to re-visit places they have been to before, it’s living in a small area on this kind of licence that would cause a problem.

 

 

C&RT have been monitoring CCers compliance :

In November, we reached the first anniversary of our programme to actively advise new licence holders of the requirements of their licence. We have now begun to send out letters to those new continuous cruisers coming to the end of the first year who have failed to meet the requirements over the past year (despite regular reminders of their obligations as boaters without a home mooring), informing them that we’ll not be renewing their licence.

Since January, 792 new continuous cruisers have received welcome letters, and we have been providing them with regular feedback if we have been concerned about their movement patterns. 63 are now in the enforcement process with a further 83 contacted to say we are concerned. Of these, we’ve contacted 23 with regard to refusing to renew their licences.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[bertiebasset]

Hi Alan, Interesting reading, My intention would be to travel around (as that seems to be my "need") as much as possible so hopefully would meet the CC requirements. I do realise they monitor but to cruise the network stopping here and there for periods dependent of stay allowance I would be moving from area to area and not returning to any set place often if at all. 

Of course,, this all depends on me selling said motorhome and purchase of said boat.  ?

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, bertiebasset said:

Hi Alan, Interesting reading, My intention would be to travel around (as that seems to be my "need") as much as possible so hopefully would meet the CC requirements. I do realise they monitor but to cruise the network stopping here and there for periods dependent of stay allowance I would be moving from area to area and not returning to any set place often if at all. 

Of course,, this all depends on me selling said motorhome and purchase of said boat.  ?

If you want it, it is doable and YOU can do it !

[ditchcrawler]

Just moving one day a week for a couple of hours would easily make you a genuine CCer provided you don't keep going back on yourself

[bertiebasset]

7 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Just moving one day a week for a couple of hours would easily make you a genuine CCer provided you don't keep going back on yourself

Thanks Brian, would certainly go forward unless a dead end then would need to reverse but if turned left into it,, then turn right out of it. ?

[bertiebasset]

Correction to previous post,, if turning left into arm would turn left again on leaving.  ☺️

[chilli]

Hi! I'm John, no boat yet but contemplating CCing The Grand Union....

 

I work in Central London and as such pay huge amounts of rent. I know it's not 'cheaper' to live in a boat (though all the calculations I've seen so far suggest it might be - a bit) but I like the idea that at least it would be MY boat! 

 

I'm a hands on kind of chap, prefer fixing things myself and quite like roughing it a bit. The short showers don't scare me

[David Mack]

On 29/11/2019 at 23:07, bertiebasset said:

Hi again 4-50. I was asking if you are a CC'er or not. I realise the requirement for CC'ing is to keep moving. What I was asking was: Is it acceptable to move on a daily basis but only for a couple of hours whilst the ice has thawed on the boat's deck to maintain ones own safety.

I would have thought the cut comes to a virtual standstill if the temperature is below freezing for a period of time as I would not wish to become an ice breaker,,, also would not want the ice floe to be knocking on the hull of my boat.

 

If through the rest of the year your cruising pattern clearly exceeds the minimum, then you are not going to get much grief from CRT if a big freeze means neither you nor anybody else can move. But if you hang around in one smallish area and claim that you now can't move because of ice when others are able to do so, then you can expect some attention from CRT. Basically if you obey the spirit, as well as the letter, of the CC requirements and don't take the p*ss you will be fine.

[bertiebasset]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

If through the rest of the year your cruising pattern clearly exceeds the minimum, then you are not going to get much grief from CRT if a big freeze means neither you nor anybody else can move. But if you hang around in one smallish area and claim that you now can't move because of ice when others are able to do so, then you can expect some attention from CRT. Basically if you obey the spirit, as well as the letter, of the CC requirements and don't take the p*ss you will be fine.

Thanks David. this is the way I had read their criteria. I am still trying to convince SWMBO that it is a good idea but she values her land base so may have to do this alone with occasional visits from her. But I would intend to keep on the move as much as possible.