Another problem!

[Minos]

The only diference between red diesel and normal is the dye added, oh and the price.

It isn't specified whether red diesel has the sulphur removed or what the bio content is. If you have a modern engine, both are pretty significant factors.

 

So guessing we need a top up of oil too - but do we just fill all the way to the top??????

Ummm.... troll?

 

Are there really people incapable of checking the oil level with a dipstick or is this a windup?

My thoughts exactly.

 

He's using a neighbour's engine key to start his boat because he broke his own.

 

Seriously???

 

Then after an hour just heating up water (and I bet this was on tickover, not with the engine under load) "the engine started making a really horrible crunching noise/choking noise." After an hour of running it suddenly started to crunch?

 

And he wants us to think it's his oil level - but he hasn't done anything to it to since it was running nicely.

[onionbargee]

How much diesel did you put in the tank?

Given many narrowboat tanks hold 50-100 litres (or more) a couple of litres isn't going to help the situation much...

 

You have changed the filters haven't you?

 

 

Lots of places it could have bunged up:

These are the easy places to check - loosen each fitting in turn, starting at the tank end - a small drip of fuel coming out indicates you are still up-stream of the problem.

Make sure that a lump of muck hasn't decided to bung up the pipe between the tank and the engine.

Now check the filters again - make sure there is fuel coming into the housings

Now make sure that fuel is getting to the injector pump(s)

You may find that several places are blocked so don't assume that clearing the first one that fails will cure your problem.

 

Now come the tricky ones - this is on the high pressure side of the pump, and diesel can be injected into you if you are not VERY VERY careful.

WITH THE ENGINE OFF loosen one of the injector pipes at its PUMP end. cover the are with a bit of cardboard or plywood, stand well back

BRIEFLY crank the engine for a couple of seconds.

Go and check the bit of ply and the pipes, any signs of diesel indicates that all is well at that point.

Re-tighten the fitting.

Repeat at the injector end of the same pipe, then each of the other injectors in turn.

 

You may find that the engine will start while doing this, in which case STOP it immediately, remove the protection and have a good look round.

Finish all the injectors.

Then try and re-start the engine, if it starts it will probably be as rough as they comes, but should gradually settle down as each injector is bled.

 

 

Many diesel engines will not "self bleed" their injectors or pump if they have run out even though they are designed to (they can't read, so...), but do need a bit of encouragement, and they may run for a short time and then stop because an air bubble has got to a critical location.

 

 

Only via an injector nozzle held right against your skin, the injector pipe unions won't do that, get real just put a rag on there and turn it over on the starter motor.

[Tony Brooks]

If the filter is glass... well, think about replacing it with one that won't fail a BSS exam.

 

The filter should have caught any or all crud that might have been picked up, so the engine should not be affected. It's not impossible though that some water or fine particles could find their way into the injection pump or injectors. A simple test for blocked injectors is to slacken off the injector pipe and turn over the engine - if fuel comes out then it's probably not blocked - test all injectors.

 

The fuel tank pick up pipe is often located as much as an inch off the bottom of the tank, so you might have either started sucking air from the tank instead of fuel. This tends to cause the engine to rev briefly before cutting out. The sloshing motion of the fuel can mean that the engine will start sometimes and not others.

 

Symptoms of a blocked fuel filter tend to be that the engine will start, but then die as soon as the throttle is opened.

 

If you in or close to Staffordshire I might be able to assist.

 

Ian

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

The small Listers usually use an AC type pump with a metal cap and centre bolt - like a small BMC one. If there are no "water traps" in the line from the tank this would be where I looked first.

[Guest]

 

 

He's using a neighbour's engine key to start his boat because he broke his own.

 

Seriously???

 

 

 

Of course- Isuzu panels share the same key (along with JCB's) and I'm pretty sure Beta panels share their pattern too, so why not?

[lewisericeric]

It isn't specified whether red diesel has the sulphur removed or what the bio content is. If you have a modern engine, both are pretty significant factors.

 

 

Ummm.... troll?

 

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

He's using a neighbour's engine key to start his boat because he broke his own.

 

Seriously???

 

Then after an hour just heating up water (and I bet this was on tickover, not with the engine under load) "the engine started making a really horrible crunching noise/choking noise." After an hour of running it suddenly started to crunch?

 

And he wants us to think it's his oil level - but he hasn't done anything to it to since it was running nicely.

 

Not really sure I like the tone in that..... i think I'm far from a troll on here since I've been commenting/posting for a few months now.

 

Also because I don't have any knowledge about engines and oil that also makes me a troll does it????

 

Yep, my key snapped in the lock like a crisp the other night, and luckily the neighbour on the other boat has a beta 38, 2006 so has the same key. Can't understand why that would be so comical or why it would be considered "far fetched?"

 

I didn't think it was the oil level specifically - just thought that could be a factor. After noticing the 2 notches on the dipstick though - the oil level is within normal levels so haven't changed the oil or anything yet.

 

Thanks to those who have actually offered help and advise. I managed to find the filters but for some reason I cannot get it off. I've had 2 of the neighbours try and help too and they cant get it off either- really screwed on tight so haven't a clue how we're gonna get it off at all

 

Really not a happy bunny this evening at all. Im in the manchester area if anyone knows of someone that might be able to help and be more qualified than us lot round here !

[Minos]

If you're that far out of your depth, then get a professional to deal with the problem.

 

If you ask for advice over the internet you're not going to get a definitive answer. You are definitely not going to an accurate diagnosis.

 

And worst of all, you're going to get some suggestions that may point you towards doing something that causes even more damage.

[Bob18]

Only via an injector nozzle held right against your skin, the injector pipe unions won't do that, get real just put a rag on there and turn it over on the starter motor.

One of my brother's colleagues would argue with you, by showing you his left hand, which has only got two fingers and thumb left after diesel was "injected" into his palm when was working on the injector pipes on an early 1980's PSA engine. (Yes, PIPES, not the injectors - apparently there was a split in one of the pipes and the pressure was high enough for the fuel to be injected - and nobody at the hospital he went to believed him until it was too late to save half his hand)

[Guest]

You need a filter removal tool - they screw on hand tight but they are too tight to get off by hand.

 

(Not familiar with the glass ones refereed to above though - not sure how to get one of them off)

 

Mine for the boat looks like this-

 

 

The one at home for the cars has chain rather than a strap.

 

If buying again I would go for one like this-

 

 

(It's on my Santa list)

 

If you're that far out of your depth, then get a professional to deal with the problem.

 

If you ask for advice over the internet you're not going to get a definitive answer. You are definitely not going to an accurate diagnosis.

 

And worst of all, you're going to get some suggestions that may point you towards doing something that causes even more damage.

 

Suggested the same a few posts back - doesn't make the OP a troll tough does it?

[bizzard]

Or if you have a new filter at hand,knock an old screwdriver right through it to use as a lever,as your not going to clean out properly a spin on canister type fuel filter.

[Guest]

Or if you have a new filter at hand,knock an old screwdriver right through it to use as a lever,as your not going to clean out properly a spin on canister type fuel filter.

 

Of course there is always the 'bodgit' solution...

[lewisericeric]

just tried pumping that lever on the fuel filter as jim batty said - any particular amount of time i should do that for though as i got no fuel coming out of the top of the screw. Prob did this for a good minute or two. However after a while it did sound like there was some sloshing around somewhere but cant guess where thats coming from?? (could it be the diesel not being able to get thru the fuel line to the filted and draining back into the fuel tank???)

[bizzard]

Of course there is always the 'bodgit' solution...

Its not a botch at all if your throwing the old one away.

That is how i got my very first one off on one of the first vehicles to have a spin on oil filter.Rootes group Hillman Minx late 60's. How can it be a botch if your dismantling something.

And it was quite a while until a purpose made tool was marketed.In the meantime i made my own chain wrench which i still have.

Edited November 19, 2011 by bizzard

[Hairy-Neil]

 

To check let the engine cool.

 

A proper marine diesel engine will be equipped to dip the oil whilst the engine is running....

[Guest]

A proper marine diesel engine will be equipped to dip the oil whilst the engine is running....

 

Queer - the manual for mine (Isuzu 42) says different or is this just a daft play on what constitutes a 'proper' marine diesel engine?

[LoneWolf]

just tried pumping that lever on the fuel filter as jim batty said - any particular amount of time i should do that for though as i got no fuel coming out of the top of the screw. Prob did this for a good minute or two. However after a while it did sound like there was some sloshing around somewhere but cant guess where thats coming from?? (could it be the diesel not being able to get thru the fuel line to the filted and draining back into the fuel tank???)

 

So have you changed the filters yet?

[Hairy-Neil]

We've got a Beta 38 circa 2004. Not sure what you've got. On ours the main, disposable fuel filter is Beta part no 211-02817. It's a black, metal, cannister that is located towards the very front of the engine on the right (viewed from the stern) just beside the large alternator.

 

 

 

If he doesn't know what a filter is, how will he know what an alternator is.....

[bizzard]

just tried pumping that lever on the fuel filter as jim batty said - any particular amount of time i should do that for though as i got no fuel coming out of the top of the screw. Prob did this for a good minute or two. However after a while it did sound like there was some sloshing around somewhere but cant guess where thats coming from?? (could it be the diesel not being able to get thru the fuel line to the filted and draining back into the fuel tank???)

If this is the little pump lever on the fuel lift pump you may have to turn the engine a little as its actuating lever is probably on the peak of its cam. Just give the engine a nudge round on the starter button or key.

[lewisericeric]

No Lone i havent' - wanted to just take the first one off and see if i can maybe give it a bit of a quick clean - as i dont have any new ones to hand so will have to order them in - really need the engine on as it works my calorifier so no hot water until then ;(

[Hairy-Neil]

Queer - the manual for mine (Isuzu 42) says different or is this just a daft play on what constitutes a 'proper' marine diesel engine?

 

Afraid so, you guys are just playing at it....

[Guest]

No Lone i havent' - wanted to just take the first one off and see if i can maybe give it a bit of a quick clean - as i dont have any new ones to hand so will have to order them in - really need the engine on as it works my calorifier so no hot water until then ;(

 

They cannot be cleaned and/or re-used plus you now have crap in your injection system.

 

Do not run your engine until this is sorted - you are only going to make things worse (ie more expensive).

 

Hot water? - kettle on hob...

 

Afraid so, you guys are just playing at it....

 

Thought so - helpful....not

[Hairy-Neil]

One of my brother's colleagues would argue with you, by showing you his left hand, which has only got two fingers and thumb left after diesel was "injected" into his palm when was working on the injector pipes on an early 1980's PSA engine. (Yes, PIPES, not the injectors - apparently there was a split in one of the pipes and the pressure was high enough for the fuel to be injected - and nobody at the hospital he went to believed him until it was too late to save half his hand)

 

A friend did the same with a grease gun. He now has an ornamental thumb...

[LoneWolf]

No Lone i havent' - wanted to just take the first one off and see if i can maybe give it a bit of a quick clean - as i dont have any new ones to hand so will have to order them in - really need the engine on as it works my calorifier so no hot water until then ;(

 

well, if it was me i'd be boiling the kettle

 

I dont know how filters work but if i thought i'd crudded one up i wouldnt be trying to clean it & put it back on. I'd be concerned about 'cleaning' the crud to the wrong side of the filter if i didnt know what i was doing.

 

It might be possible though

 

So do you have 2 fuel filters? The first with a drain trap and the second one on the engine itself (near the pump thing)

[Guest]

Are there really people incapable of checking the oil level with a dipstick or is this a windup?

Of course there are. We are all incapable of doing anything until we learn/are taught. Walking is quite a simple task to me, but I had to learn just like everyone else.

[LoneWolf]

They cannot be cleaned and/or re-used plus you now have crap in your injection system.

 

Do not run your engine until this is sorted - you are only going to make things worse (ie more expensive).

 

Hot water? - kettle on hob...

 

 

 

Thought so - helpful....not

 

We appear to be in agreement (again)

 

 

lets ignore the people who are just showing off & not being helpful to the op

[lewisericeric]

so i should just get a new fuel filter and do nothing until ive got that??