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Tiller judder


H.C.Astell & Co

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I have a 2004 50ft trad with very little use(1200 hrs), and on tickover or just above the boat handles well, but anything higher the tiller judders like mad.

I have also notice the tiller is very very easy to turn from left to right, and can not be left in a straight ahead position and let go, the tiller will go full lock straight away.

 

can anyone help me with a possible answer please?

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I have a 2004 50ft trad with very little use(1200 hrs), and on tickover or just above the boat handles well, but anything higher the tiller judders like mad.

I have also notice the tiller is very very easy to turn from left to right, and can not be left in a straight ahead position and let go, the tiller will go full lock straight away.

 

can anyone help me with a possible answer please?

 

Summit round your prop???

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Summit round your prop???

Sorry i forgot to say i undone the weed hatch and cant feel anything, but im not sure what im feeling for , i also went full reverse to see if it helps, but nothing changed.

I was told by a freind that there is a piace of shaped metal (not sure of the name) in front of the prop that could be the wrong size maybe?

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Sorry i forgot to say i undone the weed hatch and cant feel anything, but im not sure what im feeling for ,

 

You are feeling for anything other than hard metal,

 

stuff like rags, fabric, brollys, even fishing line.

 

The prop should be completely clear of anything.

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I have a 2004 50ft trad with very little use(1200 hrs), and on tickover or just above the boat handles well, but anything higher the tiller judders like mad.

I have also notice the tiller is very very easy to turn from left to right, and can not be left in a straight ahead position and let go, the tiller will go full lock straight away.

 

can anyone help me with a possible answer please?

If the tiller has always flown across fast if you let go,the rudder balance blade ahead of the stock could be too large in area in relation to the trailing blade part,verging on ''Lea or negative helm'',a very uncomfortable situation,would account for it feeling very light too.Or perhaps the rudder has become lose on the stock.

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I have a 2004 50ft trad with very little use(1200 hrs), and on tickover or just above the boat handles well, but anything higher the tiller judders like mad.

I have also notice the tiller is very very easy to turn from left to right, and can not be left in a straight ahead position and let go, the tiller will go full lock straight away.

 

can anyone help me with a possible answer please?

 

I think the rudder bearing are knackered

 

If you lean on the rudder can you get it to rock - It could be the bottom or/and top bearings are worn out.

 

Alex

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If the tiller has always flown across fast if you let go,the rudder balance blade ahead of the stock could be too large in area in relation to the trailing blade part,verging on ''Lea or negative helm'',a very uncomfortable situation,would account for it feeling very light too.Or perhaps the rudder has become lose on the stock.

Hmm interesting, how can i assess if the balace blade is too large?

The rudder coming lose could be a possibilty, is this something i could check for in the marina, or has it got to be on dry dock?

 

I think the rudder bearing are knackered

 

If you lean on the rudder can you get it to rock - It could be the bottom or/and top bearings are worn out.

 

Alex

I cant say the bearing has any obvious play in it, as i have checked this before.

To give you more info the tiller squealls or squeeks from left to right, transfering the noise right through to the front.

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Hmm interesting, how can i assess if the balace blade is too large?

The rudder coming lose could be a possibilty, is this something i could check for in the marina, or has it got to be on dry dock?

 

 

I cant say the bearing has any obvious play in it, as i have checked this before.

To give you more info the tiller squealls or squeeks from left to right, transfering the noise right through to the front.

Repeat,how long have you had the boat and has it always been like it?

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Hmm interesting, how can i assess if the balace blade is too large?

The rudder coming lose could be a possibilty, is this something i could check for in the marina, or has it got to be on dry dock?

 

 

I cant say the bearing has any obvious play in it, as i have checked this before.

To give you more info the tiller squealls or squeeks from left to right, transfering the noise right through to the front.

 

 

 

You will have to have it dry docked to confirm and cure your problems.

You might get a marina to tug it up the slope backward so you can have quick look.

I don't think it will be a problem with the balance blade but you be able to have a look.

 

Alex

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Hmm interesting, how can i assess if the balace blade is too large?

The rudder coming lose could be a possibilty, is this something i could check for in the marina, or has it got to be on dry dock?

 

 

I cant say the bearing has any obvious play in it, as i have checked this before.

To give you more info the tiller squealls or squeeks from left to right, transfering the noise right through to the front.

Could be a bent rudder shaft.

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Has it been known to go in with waders on to have a looksee?

 

Yes but totally unnecessary to check if there is anything around your prop - that is why you have a weed hatch...

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No sorry, the main shaft has.

Ok. Check down the weed box again and make sure there's no rubbish or weed hanging on the rudder as well as the prop,if the water's clear and the rudder shaft is bent badly you should see it by swinging the tiller from side to side and watching through the weedbox.Also make sure that the rudder shaft foot ''IS''in its socket on the skeg,use a torch.

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Just to add when checking the prop also check the shaft between the boat and the prop. (down the weed hatch)

 

ps. no expert but with the squeaking etc., I feel it could be the bearings, where the tiller goes though the boat to the rudder.

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Ok. Check down the weed box again and make sure there's no rubbish or weed hanging on the rudder as well as the prop,if the water's clear and the rudder shaft is bent badly you should see it by swinging the tiller from side to side and watching through the weedbox.Also make sure that the rudder shaft foot ''IS''in its socket on the skeg,use a torch.

Ok will do this at the weekend ,thanks for your help so far ;)

 

Just to add when checking the prop also check the shaft between the boat and the prop. (down the weed hatch)

 

ps. no expert but with the squeaking etc., I feel it could be the bearings, where the tiller goes though the boat to the rudder.

I hope not, but if thats the case it will have to wait til end of next year when we pull it out for blackening.

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I have a 2004 50ft trad with very little use(1200 hrs), and on tickover or just above the boat handles well, but anything higher the tiller judders like mad.

I have also notice the tiller is very very easy to turn from left to right, and can not be left in a straight ahead position and let go, the tiller will go full lock straight away.

 

can anyone help me with a possible answer please?

 

There is a boat in our area that's like that. The first time I steered it, it took me a surprisingly long time to realise that in a straight line I was having to push "the wrong way" on the tiller, i.e. although moving the tiller left, I was having to push right to stop it going right over. Letting go resulted in rudder going hard over and a close encounter with the bank :blush: I reckoned a bit off the leading edge or added to the trailing edge of the rudder would have fixed it. I am told that the steering is a lot better when the water tank in the bow is full, (Don't ask me how, I'd have thought that would have made it worse, if anything!)

 

Iain

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There is a boat in our area that's like that. The first time I steered it, it took me a surprisingly long time to realise that in a straight line I was having to push "the wrong way" on the tiller, i.e. although moving the tiller left, I was having to push right to stop it going right over. Letting go resulted in rudder going hard over and a close encounter with the bank :blush: I reckoned a bit off the leading edge or added to the trailing edge of the rudder would have fixed it. I am told that the steering is a lot better when the water tank in the bow is full, (Don't ask me how, I'd have thought that would have made it worse, if anything!)

 

Iain

Thats what it sounds like to me,''post 5''. Imbalance of rudder,or its off its skeg socket.

I can't remember the ideal balance ratio between the leading and trailing parts of the rudder,i think its something like %70 trailing and%30 leading.Its best to add more area to the trailing rather than cutting some off the leading balance part as you usually need the leading edge of the rudder to be close to the propeller for best steering effect especially in astern.bizzard.

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If the rudder goes hard over in forward and everyting is in the right place as it should be it means the rudder would have more than 50% balance forward of the rudder stock. I know there are boat builders out there that are that stupid but look for another reason.

1.Is the is the rudder stock in it's bottom bearing?

2.Very unlikley to be anything to do with the top bearing.

3.Vibration is there any damage to the propeller you need very little damage to cause vibration in the rudder.

4.If your rudder is damaged you can normally drop the rudder off the boat. Remove the swan neck and upper bearing, put the nut back on, tie a rope to the rudder stock and another through the hole in the rudder tit (yes thats what it is there for it is not decoration) push boat to the middle of the canal lift rudder stock and pull the rudder to one side and let go. the rudder should now be on the bottom of the canal. As long as you have tied the rope on well you can now drag it out of the canal. IMPORTANT LEAVE THE ROPE THAT WAS TIED TO THE RUDDER STOCK IN THE RUDDER TUBE THIS IS THE ONE YOU WILL PULL THE RUDDER BACK UP WITH.

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Thats what it sounds like to me,''post 5''. Imbalance of rudder,or its off its skeg socket.

I can't remember the ideal balance ratio between the leading and trailing parts of the rudder,i think its something like %70 trailing and%30 leading.Its best to add more area to the trailing rather than cutting some off the leading balance part as you usually need the leading edge of the rudder to be close to the propeller for best steering effect especially in astern.bizzard.

 

balance plate should be about 20% of the size of the main plate, is the ratio I've always believed to be 'received wisdom' & it seems to work.

 

There is a certain amount of personal preference involved. I like to be able to feel what's happening & really dislike handling boats with over-balanced rudders.

Some people don't believe there should be any effort involved in moving the tiller :o

 

Tim

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