NB Esk Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, mark99 said: A fifth manufacturer! Lol, order books full... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furnessvale Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 2 hours ago, David Schweizer said: The Davis "Northwich Trader" is a nice enough looking boat, but in my opinion it should be correctly described as "informed by" rather than a "copy"of a Yarwoods boat. I remember standing on the counter of the prototype (?) at the Worcester IWA rally in 1999 and commenting to Jan that they hadn't got the cabin profile correct, and having spent many hours on the at the back end of a Yarwoods working boat, I knew exactly what it should look like. A voice from the towpath , which I belive was Phil Trotter, said "well we copied the original drawings", which I assume were the ones supplied by Laurence Hogg. My only observation can be that Yarwoods yard apparently did not!! Sadly Lawrence is not here to confirm or deny this, but I have heard it said that some of the work on these drawings is not from original works drawings but measured from actual boats some years later. IF this is true, pick the wrong boat to measure and there could be difficulties. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted July 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 6 hours ago, Captain Pegg said: To 99% of people an RWD NT is simply a very nice distinctive boat. Even allowing for the marketing there were only 30 or so built and they are all over a decade old. So are you saying the one that is in this advert, which claims to be a 2012 boat, (i.e. only 6 years old) is not actually so? RWD are still actively advertising them on their website, so why do ou think they have not sold one in over 10 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted July 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 25 minutes ago, furnessvale said: Sadly Lawrence is not here to confirm or deny this, but I have heard it said that some of the work on these drawings is not from original works drawings but measured from actual boats some years later. IF this is true, pick the wrong boat to measure and there could be difficulties. George If you re-read the whole thread, Laurence openly acknowledged that he supplied Phil Trotter with a whole range of drawings for different Yarwoods boat types, but that the Northwich Traders are only based on an amalgam of bits taken from different types. I can't get my head around this, because the end result is not "Grand Union" (Small, Middle or Large), Josher, LMS boat, or anything vaguely like any of them. If it were just marketed as a modern boat with a passing nod to original Yarwoods boats, (above the water line, at least!), I wouldn't object. However that is exactly how it is not marketed, so I feel the criticism remains completely valid. The claims about the swims are just plain silly, as an out of water look at a Northwich Trader quickly verifies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, alan_fincher said: If you re-read the whole thread, Laurence openly acknowledged that he supplied Phil Trotter with a whole range of drawings for different Yarwoods boat types, but that the Northwich Traders are only based on an amalgam of bits taken from different types. I can't get my head around this, because the end result is not "Grand Union" (Small, Middle or Large), Josher, LMS boat, or anything vaguely like any of them. If it were just marketed as a modern boat with a passing nod to original Yarwoods boats, (above the water line, at least!), I wouldn't object. However that is exactly how it is not marketed, so I feel the criticism remains completely valid. The claims about the swims are just plain silly, as an out of water look at a Northwich Trader quickly verifies. And that is completely different to what I was told by Phil Trotter, who I recall, quite clearly stated that they "copied the original drawings". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted July 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, David Schweizer said: And that is completely different to what I was told by Phil Trotter, who I recall, quite clearly stated that they "copied the original drawings". Yes, and I don't think the wording on their web-site has changed at all in the many yeras this subject has been discussed on the forum...... Quote All external lines to Yarwoods of Northwich 1930’s design. Entrance and exit swims built to exact dimensions giving positive handling and absence of excess wash. Clearly not true, IMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pegg Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 hour ago, alan_fincher said: So are you saying the one that is in this advert, which claims to be a 2012 boat, (i.e. only 6 years old) is not actually so? RWD are still actively advertising them on their website, so why do ou think they have not sold one in over 10 years? No. I just genuinely believed they hadn't built any for quite a number of years and presumed they didn't still build them. Post from Sharpness above confirms that's not the case. I think the website has been updated recently for the first time in a while. Finding a website that advertises something doesn't guarantee that product is available. JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted July 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said: No. I just genuinely believed they hadn't built any for quite a number of years and presumed they didn't still build them. Post from Sharpness above confirms that's not the case. I think the website has been updated recently for the first time in a while. Finding a website that advertises something doesn't guarantee that product is available. JP Given the number of people prepared to spend money on Hudson's when they were available, I wonder why some of the gap has not been filled by RWD boats? Ive mo idea how they compare price-wise, (I assume RWD are/were dearer?), but I would have thought the target buyers were not a million miles apart - shiny rebuilt vintage engine, back cabin, fake rivets and some claim to being based around historic design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 23 minutes ago, alan_fincher said: Given the number of people prepared to spend money on Hudson's when they were available, I wonder why some of the gap has not been filled by RWD boats? Ive mo idea how they compare price-wise, (I assume RWD are/were dearer?), but I would have thought the target buyers were not a million miles apart - shiny rebuilt vintage engine, back cabin, fake rivets and some claim to being based around historic design. I thought Steve Hudson made a point of not claiming his boats were based on a historic design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland elsdon Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 I copied the original drawings too, so i had working copies, but made no attempt to turn that into a boat... it was the translation where the result was caused, that and dropping coffee grains on the plans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, David Mack said: I thought Steve Hudson made a point of not claiming his boats were based on a historic design. I seem to remember his website claiming specifically that his boats had Josher bows, or were inspired by Josher bows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 What is remarkable is that one of the copycats of RW Davies NT has actually used the same colours too, including that apple green at the bow/stern! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted July 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 39 minutes ago, David Mack said: I thought Steve Hudson made a point of not claiming his boats were based on a historic design. 29 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: I seem to remember his website claiming specifically that his boats had Josher bows, or were inspired by Josher bows. ^^^^^^ Yes, this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up-Side-Down Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 22 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Me too. Has Dave Blixter ever sold a RN since buying the company six or seven years ago? That's a question I'd be fascinated to know the answer to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave moore Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 He has. A rebuilt DM2, to a good friend with a Fuller shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, dave moore said: He has. A rebuilt DM2, to a good friend with a Fuller shell. I meant a new one really, and I expect Up-Side-Down did too. Making a whole new one is a totally different kettle of fish from fixing a worn out one already there. Edited July 22, 2018 by Mike the Boilerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted July 22, 2018 Report Share Posted July 22, 2018 Around 3 years ago (might be longer) had a conversation with a guy who had what he says was a newly built DM2 in his boat, from memory it was a new looking boat. I’m sure he was referring to a rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthwatcher Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Well, having gone through this conversation I'm only sorry it couldn't have been over a pint or two in a canal side pub (with real ale and skittles). Yup, I'm one of those target buyers Alan Fincher described (with still time to grow more authentic if the enthusiasm prevails) but am still torn about fake rivets though I understand a little better about real riveting thanks to this article. The debate over authenticity is never ending and you'll never get complete agreement. It's very similar to that that continues in the restoration and maintenance of classic sailing boats. I've decided that, for me, having a boat that looks good, sounds right and performs well inside and out is central to what I want from narrow boating and there does have to be work involved. It would be boring having something that was simply convenient. Mind, I don't want to live it in the way that those people do in "Victorian Kitchen" on telly, but wouldn't knock those who do. Most valuable of all was the indications on choice and pricing. I too like the first one in those two ads. I got the impression that there's nothing to be afraid of in a six-year-old boat. I like the tumblehome and I like tugs. There's just the two of us and a couple of dogs so something like this could well be the answer. I can live with the rivet sneers. My dad was a welder by trade. PS. I had no idea that that Russell Newbolt was still in business building engines, something else I've learned. Edited July 23, 2018 by Earthwatcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, Earthwatcher said: PS. I had no idea that that Russell Newbolt was still in business building engines, something else I've learned. Nearly: they are Russell Newbery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 The most pragmatic view to take over false rivets imo is, if the boat package is to your choice, the rivets should not be a deal breaker. After all a false rivet is an adornment and by that definition any person criticising (not that you meet any in real world only in here or at a historic rally) should have a boat without their choice of "adornments". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthwatcher Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, Athy said: Nearly: they are Russell Newbery. Bugger, I checked online before posting that. I blame David. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthwatcher Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, mark99 said: The most pragmatic view to take over false rivets imo is, if the boat package is to your choice, the rivets should not be a deal breaker. After all a false rivet is an adornment and by that definition any person criticising (not that you meet any in real world only in here or at a historic rally) should have a boat without their choice of "adornments". I agree, they're not a dealbreaker and I like the look. But nor would I want them attracting rust or falling off, both of which I'm told can happen. I guess it reminds me a little of the "go faster" stripes we used to put on our Ford Escorts when I was younger (I never did, had a Golf Gti that was the real business until I concertinaed it one icy night many moons ago). In this case, however I guess we're looking at "go slower" engines with nice plopping sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) My boat came with false rivets and not one of them has rusted or fallen off. Built 2007 by R Fuller. One may have fallen off a cheap boat a few years back, an event to which has been attached great significance by the knockers. Edited July 23, 2018 by mark99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthwatcher Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, mark99 said: My boat came with false rivets and not one of them has rusted or fallen off. Built 2007 by R Fuller. One may have fallen off a cheap boat a few years back, an event to which has been attached great significance by the knockers. Lovely looking boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, mark99 said: great significance by the knockers. In my opinion false rivets are very much like false knockers...They're okay from a distance but look wrong under close scrutiny. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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