What was this boat?

[MoominPapa]

The Moomins became boat owners in 2008, but we almost became boat owners twenty years before that in 1988, when we looked at a narrowboat with a view to buying it to live on. In hindsight, that boat was very unusual, and I'd be interested to identify it and learn of its prior history and subsequent fate.

 

Of course the one useful fact that I can't remember after all these years is the name of the boat. Sorry

 

So, the story. This boat was an iron/wood composite narrow hull, full length. I'm pretty sure it was a converted butty. It had a (non-functional) petrol engine (model-T, possibly) which had a TVO conversion. There was a full-length wooden cabin of some great age, even then. And before anyone suggests (though the similarities are scary) it wasn't Cressy.

 

So far, so relatively common. What's more unusual if that it was moored in Twenty-pence marina, on the Old-West river between St Ives and Ely. Now this was long before the Middle-Level locks has been lengthened, so the only way it could have got there from the canals was via the Wash. I recall the vendor saying that she doubted that the hull would withstand another Wash passage. There were very few narrowboats on the Great Ouse system in those days. This boat was certainly the only NB in the marina.

 

As young postgrads we didn't know much, but we did recognise when we were biting off far more than we could chew, and wisely walked away.

 

So, does anyone have any clues as to what this boat could have been, and where it is now if it still exists? I'd love to know.

 

MP.

[Paul H]

The Moomins became boat owners in 2008, but we almost became boat owners twenty years before that in 1988, when we looked at a narrowboat with a view to buying it to live on. In hindsight, that boat was very unusual, and I'd be interested to identify it and learn of its prior history and subsequent fate.

 

Of course the one useful fact that I can't remember after all these years is the name of the boat. Sorry

 

So, the story. This boat was an iron/wood composite narrow hull, full length. I'm pretty sure it was a converted butty. It had a (non-functional) petrol engine (model-T, possibly) which had a TVO conversion. There was a full-length wooden cabin of some great age, even then. And before anyone suggests (though the similarities are scary) it wasn't Cressy.

 

So far, so relatively common. What's more unusual if that it was moored in Twenty-pence marina, on the Old-West river between St Ives and Ely. Now this was long before the Middle-Level locks has been lengthened, so the only way it could have got there from the canals was via the Wash. I recall the vendor saying that she doubted that the hull would withstand another Wash passage. There were very few narrowboats on the Great Ouse system in those days. This boat was certainly the only NB in the marina.

 

As young postgrads we didn't know much, but we did recognise when we were biting off far more than we could chew, and wisely walked away.

 

So, does anyone have any clues as to what this boat could have been, and where it is now if it still exists? I'd love to know.

 

MP.

 

Does the name "Phosphorous" ring a bell? It would seem to fit your description and the location but it was all wood not composite - although I imagine there were quite a few metal patches!

 

Paul.

 

Paul

[MoominPapa]

Does the name "Phosphorous" ring a bell? It would seem to fit your description and the location but it was all wood not composite - although I imagine there were quite a few metal patches!

It does seem to fit quite well, doesn't it? I do remember an iron/wood hull, but at this distance, memory may well be playing tricks.

 

MP.

[David Mack]

There were a couple of full length converted butties in Cambridge in the late 70s. Could it be one of these?

 

One was residential and used to moor on the offside just below Jesus Lock. This was definitely wooden and leaked like a sieve. A friend of mine boatsat it for a week while the owners were on holiday - it couldn't be left unattended or it would sink.

 

The other was moored up on an end of garden mooring near the Green Dragon footbridge at Chesterton. My recollection (though I may be wrong) was that this was iron/steel-sided and was Phosphorous. The cabin was covered by a tarpaulin, and the whole boat looked rather neglected. When I went back a few years later it had gone.

 

David

[Paul H]

There were a couple of full length converted butties in Cambridge in the late 70s. Could it be one of these?

 

One was residential and used to moor on the offside just below Jesus Lock. This was definitely wooden and leaked like a sieve. A friend of mine boatsat it for a week while the owners were on holiday - it couldn't be left unattended or it would sink.

 

The other was moored up on an end of garden mooring near the Green Dragon footbridge at Chesterton. My recollection (though I may be wrong) was that this was iron/steel-sided and was Phosphorous. The cabin was covered by a tarpaulin, and the whole boat looked rather neglected. When I went back a few years later it had gone.

 

David

I'd hoped that Mr Harrison would pop in with more details but here's what I know. Phosphorus was a GUCCC small Rickmansworth wooden butty which Robert Aikman was planning to have converted by Walkers of Rickmansworth being closely modelled on Cressy. However he apparantly sold it on before much work had taken place to a Cambridge academic who had the conversion completed in Bootle in 1948. The Dorwoods cruised it extensively eventually crossing the Wash to the Great Ouse in 1955 I don't know when it was broken up but it stayed in the area because my late friend Steve King, who lived near Ely, was given the stem iron and other bits and pieces. I believe he passed these on to Keith Ball at Stretton.

 

But of course there could have been another narrow boat with ancient conversion in the area as well.

 

Paul

[pete harrison]

I'd hoped that Mr Harrison would pop in with more details but here's what I know.

 

Paul

 

Although I had read this 'thread' I did not respond because I do not know the answer. PHOSPHORUS did naturally spring to mind but the OP stated "iron/wood composite" and "petrol engine". Obviously PHOSPHORUS was a wooden boat and Cecile Dorward claimed in Waterways World October 1984 page 65 that PHOSPHORUS was fitted with a diesel engine !

 

I have very little on PHOSPHORUS post 1955 apart from the names of a couple of subsequent owners and where its remains lie, probably courtesy of Steve King.

 

I had heard a rumour that Steve had passed away and I am saddened that this is now confirmed. Although I did not meet him we exchanged numerous telephone calls, letters and e-mails.

Edited September 27, 2011 by pete harrison

[MoominPapa]

Although I had read this 'thread' I did not respond because I do not know the answer. PHOSPHORUS did naturally spring to mind but the OP stated "iron/wood composite" and "petrol engine". Obviously PHOSPHORUS was a wooden boat and Cecile Dorward claimed in Waterways World October 1984 page 65 that PHOSPHORUS was fitted with a diesel engine !

I'm having self-doubts about my memory of the hull construction, but I'm absolutely sure that the (non-running) engine was spark-ignition and converted to run on TVO.

 

MP.

[FadeToScarlet]

Resurrecting this thread, as I've come across some pictures in my research.

 

 

This is possibly the "not Phosphorous" boat mentioned by David Mack above. It has a very different fore-end to Phosphorous, which the other photo shows still had a fore-cabin. It is tied up on the North bank of the river, just downstream of Magdalene Bridge, on what is now a college house back garden, and the photo is pre-1974 (i think) when a cantilevered boardwalk was constructed alongside the riverbank in the background of the photo.

 

 

Phosphorous on its mooring; another colour photograph (from the Cecile Dorward collection) showed it in the same position. Chesterton road is in the background. Incidentally, this is the same mooring that the trip boat I captain operates from.

 

 

Phosphorous tied up by what is now the La Mimosa restaurant, almost directly opposite the boat referred to in the first photograph.

[MoominPapa]

I wish I could remember more. I can't see anything in either of those photos that says "not this boat" except that I distinctly remember entering at the bow deck and inspecting the boat from bow to stern. The construction over Phosphorus's front deck would preclude that, but it looks very temporary and could have disappeared again by 1988. I guess that it's very likely that "our" but was one or these two and it's good to see pictures. Thanks FtS.

 

Cheers,

MP.

[Jay4424]

another option could be that it was "Chance 2" you were looking at... all wood, ex TCO (so we think) cabind top, petrol engine (horizontal twin driving a "hochkiss cone" proplution unit.

[Jrtm]

I thought chance 2. Beleive the only hochkiss cone still around. Chance 2 was a chance and hunt boat but not sure if was chemical or glass boat if chemical then passed into tco if glass then i dont beleive it did im sure mr harrison will know more i would have to look it up again (i should really write my info down properly rather than odd bits) to give more accurate info of the chance and hunt boats with tco boats. Quite a few smaller and even larger chemical and oil boats got bought by tco. Quite a few from ici.

 

Chance 2 was if correct an cabined open boat less but not necessarily unlikely to have be bought by tco as they tended to buy boats that were chemical or tank boats but not always true as with lindola and the steel boats but not all boats in tco can be accounted for.

Edited January 17, 2017 by billybobbooth

[Jay4424]

from the inside evidence I would have said Chance 2 was decked in its working life, not open... that's not to say it got a deck added later in its working life, but the cut outs are there for the deck supports

[Naughty Cal]

Would this be the Chance 2 that was moored on the Lincoln long term moorings maybe 5 or so years back?

[Jrtm]

Chance to use to be moored on the dee just below the dry dock at chester

[IanR]

Here's a link to an old page from Jem Bates website, including some written info and a couple of relatively recent photo's.

 

I love the quirkiness of the Hotchkiss Cone propulsion.

 

http://www.batesboatyard.co.uk/chance2.htm

 

Ian.

[junior]

I think Spey towed it from Lincoln to Chester. About 2 years ago it made its way to Hurleston where it spent a year as it couldn't get through the bottom lock.

About a year ago it was towed to Nantwich basin and (i think) craned out. No idea where it is now.

[Naughty Cal]

Here's a link to an old page from Jem Bates website, including some written info and a couple of relatively recent photo's.

 

I love the quirkiness of the Hotchkiss Cone propulsion.

 

http://www.batesboatyard.co.uk/chance2.htm

 

Ian.

Thats the one.

 

She moved on about 5 years ago and not seen her since.

[Jrtm]

She sold just after i went to look at her at easter afew years ago. Shes not been seen since.

[Bee]

I knew of one other boat with Hotchkiss cones, a wooden Joey with (I think) a Russell Newberry. Went by the name of Moonraker, last saw it in Little Venice.

[pete harrison]

I knew of one other boat with Hotchkiss cones, a wooden Joey with (I think) a Russell Newberry. Went by the name of Moonraker, last saw it in Little Venice.

MOONRAKER was fitted with a National 2BC, removed from a road roller and fitted the 'wrong way around' driving Hotchkiss Cones. The last record I have for MOONRAKER is November 1996 when it was observed sunk at Denham. I have both the B.C.N. gauge for this boat as well as the engine serial number

....................... but not all boats in tco can be accounted for.

I presume you mean that you can not account for all of the boats operated by Thomas Clayton (Oldbury) Ltd.

[Mike Nicoll]

I knew of one other boat with Hotchkiss cones, a wooden Joey with (I think) a Russell Newberry. Went by the name of Moonraker, last saw it in Little Venice.

Also one of the early Hotel boats had these cones fitted, just can not think which one at the moment.

[pete harrison]

Also one of the early Hotel boats had these cones fitted, just can not think which one at the moment.

SATURN

[archie57]

Didn't the "Cedar" have these fitted when a trip boat in Alan Pickin's ownership?

[pete harrison]

Didn't the "Cedar" have these fitted when a trip boat in Alan Pickin's ownership?

According to my bits and bobs Alan Picken fitted CEDAR with a 'Gill' water jet propulsion unit, removed from SCALES prior to its sale to the Shropshire Union Canal Society

[David Mack]

MOONRAKER was fitted with a National 2BC, removed from a road roller and fitted the 'wrong way around' driving Hotchkiss Cones. The last record I have for MOONRAKER is November 1996 when it was observed sunk at Denham. I have both the B.C.N. gauge for this boat as well as the engine serial number[

I remeber Moonraker moored on the South Stratford a couple of locks down from the junction in around 1973-4.