g.u wideboat progress

[Derek R.]

A combination of skill, persistence, focus, and art. Some people are amazing . . . but they won't admit it.

[Tam & Di]

 

Pluto, many thanks for the pictures, I think that the first one is probably at the benbow moorings at Uxbridge, I'm hoping that Tam or Di might be able to shed a bit more light. Once again thanks for your input.

 

 

 

You're right Chris, the first one is at the Benbow Way (Bulldog Bridge) moorings we had. We cruised Progress to just about everywhere we could get with it - Samson Road being the furthest north, Slough, Hertford and Bishop's Stortford, and well up the Thames. The K&A was not accessible at that time. I can't swear to the location of the second photo, but it looks about right as I recall it all those many years ago. Although the counter was well out of the water I don't recall it being difficult to steer or to stop.

 

Congratulations on the latest shots of work in progress (hmm - wasn't meant as a pun, but still .........)

 

Tam

[AMModels]

Wow, the craftsmanship and sheer skill and effort which is recorded on this thread is simply stunning; I think a book of the rebuild would easily become a canalside best seller.

[Ray T]

I'm just awestruck by it all.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Ray T

[Bee]

Since Chris started on `Progress` I have done various bits of house and boat maintenance. MOT`d the car and put up some shelves, the work on the car was just about good enough to scrape an MOT and the shelves are neither level, square or secure, kind of humbling innit.

Richard Cooper

[chris collins]

 

Message from Mrs Collins, STOP IT ! We where supposed to be going to the cinema last night – got thrown out after five minutes as the people behind could not see past his head!

It's really nice to be on the receiving end of such accolades but to be fair they would be far more accurately directed at the art and craft of wooden boatbuilding, in this instance all I am really doing is copying what is already there to the best of my ability and with the benefit of hindsight. The quality, fitness for purpose and aesthetic that pleases us so much has far more to do with the accumulated knowledge and skills of the generations of craftsmen boatbuilders that preceded me. That it was all done in a far more commercial environment and all done without the benefit of modern equipment really puts me in the shade!

Having said that, if this thread generates enthusiasm for and understanding of wooden boats and wooden boatbuilding then I'd be more than happy, if it helps someone with their own restoration,kick starts a project or garners a little support for your “local” wooden boat project then I'd be more than, more than, more than, more than happy!

To put things into perspective for bee, since I started “Progress” I haven't put up any shelves (straight or wonky) at all so you are ahead of me there.

So, please bear in mind that I'm still looking for information (photographic and anecdotal) about “Progress”. There is a distinct lack of info on the period between 1935 and 1958, over 20 years of the prime of it's life, what was it doing? Surely there must be some photographs of that period? Even if it's just sneaking in the background somewhere it would help.

[Richard T]

Chris, keep posting the photographs - they show what a fine craftsman you are. There are very few few boat builders who can do what you are doing with Progress. Over the winter I had the priviledge of watching Alex Ramsey replace the stem on Nyula - his Dunkirk little ship - this was quite a challenge but nothing like what you are doing. Thanks for sharing your work with us.

Richard

[chris collins]

A long time since the last post so it would be reasonable to expect to see lots of new bits, however a plethora of other time consumers have conspired to slow things from merely just “very slow progress” to “almost non-existent progress”.

“Mimas” was due a docking and as “Progress” is obstinately filling our dock a spot was booked with Jem to use the dock at Bulbourne.

We where lucky enough to have John Best (son of former “Mimas” captain Alf Best) steering for the journey to and from the dock, a pleasure and education for us and a pleasure and (probably) exasperation for John. From a boatbuilders point of view a journey like this with an with an experienced steerer (John had his first boat, a single motor aged 14) is great opportunity to watch the interaction between the boat, the boatman and the canal.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriscollinsboatbuilding/10317436414/#

The docking itself went well, just hardening up the caulking and blacking. The paintwork is standing up well, the cabin roof suffered a bit last year so we have repainted that but for the most part the rest is looking strong after four years, long may it last.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriscollinsboatbuilding/10317482246/in/photostream/#

In the midships of “Progress” there are a pair of wooden frames and it seemed like a good time to replace these as although I shall not fasten the planking to them permanently at the moment they will provide a useful and solid temporary fastening/ clamping/ reference point.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriscollinsboatbuilding/10317647524/#

This old bandsaw is the same age as me, it is in better condition, has less bits missing and will doubtless outlast me. It also makes a very good job of the inner curve of such frames, the biggest problem is getting the timber onto the table and moving it smoothly, waxing the table - candle, kids crayon or furniture wax, any type seems to help for the latter. The bandsaw was part of a parcel of machinery that I bought from an old quarry in Devon many years ago. Although machinery like this is useful the “usefullness” is more by way of increasing the quality of work, lovely as the old hand tools are there is a point when the energy levels start to lag and that (seemingly) tireless national grid is more prepared to go the extra mile.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriscollinsboatbuilding/10318028463/in/photostream/#

As the frames are a pair it makes sense to work the outside shape together to ensure that they stay identical. The shape of the planking lands is drawn from the original pair, usually one will provide any information missing or distorted on the other.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriscollinsboatbuilding/10317848614/in/photostream/#

Although in the photos “Progress” looks fairly straight in the top three planks this shot gives an idea of how much shape there is in the hull, I'm really looking forward to seeing it as it should be.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriscollinsboatbuilding/10318028463/in/photostream/

I was hoping that the stern planks would have a bit less “sny” (edgeways curve to you and me) , unfortunately I was wrong so I'm still only getting one plank out of some really nice boards that would normally provide two. The sny is a product of the barrel sided nature of the boat, most narrow boats have a certain amount - “Progress” is, as ever, just a little more extreme.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriscollinsboatbuilding/10317647524/in/photostream/

The frames at the stern have been beautifully preserved by the oily bilge water at their lower ends – unfortunately they are rank rotten at what was the waterline.

More of the same really, reminds me of what lovely summer we had. That's probably my image allowance done for this time, I'll try to get some more captions done soon to get a bit more up to date.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriscollinsboatbuilding/10317877406/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriscollinsboatbuilding/10318028463/in/photostream/

[chris collins]

Well that didn't work!! I'll try to work out how to post the images with the new flickr set up,

[carlt]

 

A long time since the last post so it would be reasonable to expect to see lots of new bits, however a plethora of other time consumers have conspired to slow things from merely just “very slow progress” to “almost non-existent progress”.

“Mimas” was due a docking and as “Progress” is obstinately filling our dock a spot was booked with Jem to use the dock at Bulbourne.

We where lucky enough to have John Best (son of former “Mimas” captain Alf Best) steering for the journey to and from the dock, a pleasure and education for us and a pleasure and (probably) exasperation for John. From a boatbuilders point of view a journey like this with an with an experienced steerer (John had his first boat, a single motor aged 14) is great opportunity to watch the interaction between the boat, the boatman and the canal.

 

 

The docking itself went well, just hardening up the caulking and blacking. The paintwork is standing up well, the cabin roof suffered a bit last year so we have repainted that but for the most part the rest is looking strong after four years, long may it last.

 

 

In the midships of “Progress” there are a pair of wooden frames and it seemed like a good time to replace these as although I shall not fasten the planking to them permanently at the moment they will provide a useful and solid temporary fastening/ clamping/ reference point.

 

 

This old bandsaw is the same age as me, it is in better condition, has less bits missing and will doubtless outlast me. It also makes a very good job of the inner curve of such frames, the biggest problem is getting the timber onto the table and moving it smoothly, waxing the table - candle, kids crayon or furniture wax, any type seems to help for the latter. The bandsaw was part of a parcel of machinery that I bought from an old quarry in Devon many years ago. Although machinery like this is useful the “usefullness” is more by way of increasing the quality of work, lovely as the old hand tools are there is a point when the energy levels start to lag and that (seemingly) tireless national grid is more prepared to go the extra mile.

 

 

As the frames are a pair it makes sense to work the outside shape together to ensure that they stay identical. The shape of the planking lands is drawn from the original pair, usually one will provide any information missing or distorted on the other.

 

 

Although in the photos “Progress” looks fairly straight in the top three planks this shot gives an idea of how much shape there is in the hull, I'm really looking forward to seeing it as it should be.

 

 

I was hoping that the stern planks would have a bit less “sny” (edgeways curve to you and me) , unfortunately I was wrong so I'm still only getting one plank out of some really nice boards that would normally provide two. The sny is a product of the barrel sided nature of the boat, most narrow boats have a certain amount - “Progress” is, as ever, just a little more extreme.

 

 

The frames at the stern have been beautifully preserved by the oily bilge water at their lower ends – unfortunately they are rank rotten at what was the waterline.

 

More of the same really, reminds me of what lovely summer we had. That's probably my image allowance done for this time, I'll try to get some more captions done soon to get a bit more up to date.

 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriscollinsboatbuilding/10317877406/in/photostream/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriscollinsboatbuilding/10318028463/in/photostream/

 

[chris collins]

many thanks

[carlt]

many thanks

No problem.

 

If you right click on the photostream picture a box pops up offering a choice of picture sizes.

 

Left click on the size image you want to post (I clicked "original") and it will go to that size image.

 

Right click on the image and select "Copy image URL" then paste that into the "Image" box.

 

There are probably quicker ways to do it and clearer ways to explain it but it works for me.

[chris collins]

Super, I'll give it a try and hopefully here's that last couple of pictures.

 

More of the same really, reminds me of what lovely summer we had. That's probably my image allowance done for this time, I'll try to get some more captions done soon to get a bit more up to date.

[Ray T]

Chris, slightly off topic but do you know the dates please when The Stokes family had Mimas and when the Bests did?

 

Thank you.

[chris collins]

Hi Ray, you have probably chosen the worst person to ask about dates, I'm pretty useless with names, dates and all manner of other useful information. Although I have rough idea of the order of things in my mind it's certainly not to be trusted enough to put in black and white, to quote Mark Twain “when I was young I could remember things whether they happened or not”

I can remember Mrs Best saying that she wasn't all that keen on “Mimas” because the gearbox kept breaking down !

Obviously if it's important to you I can have deeper look “in the archives”and have word with John or put you in touch with him, although I think he was just a toddler at the time.

On a more general note there was a good article in W.W about 25 years ago about the Ovaltine fleet, If you haven't seen it let me know and I'll try and scan it and let you have a copy.

[Richard Fairhurst]

There was one in Winter 2007's Narrowboat as well.

[Ray T]

 

Hi Ray, you have probably chosen the worst person to ask about dates, I'm pretty useless with names, dates and all manner of other useful information. Although I have rough idea of the order of things in my mind it's certainly not to be trusted enough to put in black and white, to quote Mark Twain “when I was young I could remember things whether they happened or not”

I can remember Mrs Best saying that she wasn't all that keen on “Mimas” because the gearbox kept breaking down !

Obviously if it's important to you I can have deeper look “in the archives”and have word with John or put you in touch with him, although I think he was just a toddler at the time.

On a more general note there was a good article in W.W about 25 years ago about the Ovaltine fleet, If you haven't seen it let me know and I'll try and scan it and let you have a copy.

 

 

Chris. Thank you for the reply. I actually have a copy of WW March 1986 which has that article. I have just dug it out and it mentions that Arthur Stokes and family worked Mimas & Ray from the end of 1943 until 1956. So that answers part of my question. It also mentions Sidney Gibbons making the last run to the Ovaltine factory, with their own liveried boat, on the 14th April 1959 with Mimas & Enid.

 

I must dig ot the relavent copy of NarrowBoat, which has an article on the Ovaltine Boats, and study that.

 

Thank you for jogging my memory.

[archie57]

Arthur Stokes had arguably the smartest pair on the canals when he had the "Mimas". Legend has it that they would only use the primus for cooking in the engine 'ole, and at the first sign of rain the Flat Irons would go on the range to heat up in order to iron the Ash strips to dry them out and keep them snowy white! (Of course, many owners of old boats today don't seem to know what Ash strips are....!)

Myself and a friend were invited around to their house (opposite the "Engine" at Longford) many years ago for a cup of tea, where we were treated with great kindness. Naturally the conversation turned to boating, whereupon they said "You should have come last week - we've just had a bonfire in the garden and burnt all the photos!" Anyone doubting the spotless turnout should look at the pictures of Robert Longden and the Weaver collection.

[Ray T]

Archie, have you any links to the Weaver Collection please?

[archie57]

The Weaver collection is now in the care of the Historic Narrow Boat Club and should be accessible through them

[Ray T]

The Weaver collection is now in the care of the Historic Narrow Boat Club and should be accessible through them

 

Many thanks

[chris collins]

This is a gorgeous shot of “Progress” in build, I wish I had a better copy of it as it does not really do justice to the shape of the swim/counter bottoms (to be fair none of the photographs that I have taken show the shape particularly well either, possibly to do with the way it reflects the light? I have to admit that it is also bit of an ego boosting shot in a “Wow it looks really huge”sort of way, hopefully that boatbuilder is more than 3' 6'' tall.

Unlike a “normal” motor narrow boat where the counter bottoms sit atop of the swim planks and stern post at near 90 degrees (albeit with a nicely constructed concave underside) on “Progress” there is a rather more organic radius between the two components. Naturally a lot of the original has rotted badly which makes the details of the method of construction a bit more of a detective job, however one of the advantages of working around the swim area is that as it tends to be relatively unworn it will sometimes reveal details that would be lost in the more vulnerable areas.

 

 

 

 

Just a couple of shots to show that I'm not very good at illustrating the shape of the stern, perhaps not all pictures are worth a thousand words?

Although the bends on “Progress” are no more severe than on your “average” narrowboat in order to achieve the shape there is an enormous amount of twist in the lower three strakes. It is interesting that in the majority of sea going vessels similar shapes would have been fashioned with much narrower planks. Whilst a more detailed examination of the two approaches is beyond the scope of these posts it's a rich source of food for thought.

“Progress” is very very close to the limit of what can be done with 2” oak and it's intriguing to to take peek at some of the methods employed to get those curves.

When I first looked at these frames I thought that the curve across the board had probably been shaped after the plank had been steamed into position, possibly using temporary frames first to form the bend/twist and then fairing the convex inner face before fitting the permanent frames. Using the natural tendency for timber shrink more in its inner face when cut tangentially could help develop the curve but the amount of “cupping” needed would exceed what is available naturally.

Unfortunately steaming the plank will not help either as the bond between the cell walls across the grain is not strong enough to allow us to stretch the convex radius.

When we bend timber,along the length of the grain, cold or steamed, we will stretch the fibres on the outside of the radius and compress those on the inside, unsurprisingly the outside seems to stretch a bit easier than the inner compresses. When I first started I was quite surprised when I carefully templated the inside lines for a plank, equally carefully cut and finished said plank, steamed it and found it had grown to be 3/16” too long.

Similarly when we twist a plank it will stretch or compress along the fibres of the grain, what we cannot do is introduce a bend across the grain which is, unfortunately, what we would need to do to avoid having to fair that inner face.

So, I was expecting at least a part of the convex shape to have been cut after bending...........

However as this shot of the hood end of the plank shows, the shape has been cut all the way to it's mating face to the sternpost so it was probably shaped before steaming/bending. Allowing for a bit of age deterioration this would have been around 1 1/2” thick when new.

Going back to the “in build” picture at bushell's it's interesting to see how high ( or low) the original stood during build, as can be seen here the shape of the plank and it's initial angle to meet the stem or stern post dictates more than the normal amount of clearance under the vessel.

So far all of planks, stem or stern, have involved a certain amount of plank to dock interface, usually accompanied by some fairly frantic scrabbling to get the plank up and around before the plank cools off. Oh to be a Fly on the wall at bushell's ?

[Pluto]

Chris, you may be interested to compare the swim with that on a L&LC boat, in this case Pluto, built at Wigan in 1939. By this time, the shape of many boats built in Lancashire were more like those in Yorkshire, with very full lines at the bow to increase carrying capacity. The sterns were also increased, with earlier boats having finer lines than this, but there was still a very good run to the rudder on the later boats.

 

[Pen n Ink]

As a woodworker for many years, I can only look at these pictures in jaw-dropped silent awe. The time, skill and effort involved in getting these organic shapes is unfortunately going to be completely lost on the vast majority of people, but I personally find that these last pictures in particular show both why I would love to own one of these old wooden boats, and also why I will never consider it!

 

The work of the very few people still capable of restoration of this type is to be admired and encouraged by those of us who would love to have the skills but don't. Leave me to my spiral hollow twisted woodturning or curved staircases any day. They're much easier!

 

[sorry - lump in throat gushing over…]

[Bee]

The `Spry` at Ironbridge gorge museum is worth a look at to see how planks can be twisted, I think it is planked in larch and not oak so I guess it is probably not so hard to do and but the run aft is a bit similar. Trying to do that in 2 `` oak just looks like a labour of Hercules, in fact the whole project is the sort of thing that usually depends on a million pound grant from somewhere. Ah well, off to the shed to struggle over a bit of MDF.