led light conversion

[nicknorman]

That is very interesting indeed.

 

Of course, a green LED would not lose much light if it was shining through a green filter, as long as its wavelength fell within the passband of the filter (and similarly for the red). I wonder if you can get super-bright red and green LEDs that would do the job; I bet they'd be more efficient than having an incandescent bulb behind a green filter

You can certainly get red and green LEDs - red was the first LED colour invented, and green was not far behind. Whether you can get something "consumer friendly", not just surface mount or wired diodes which would have to be soldered into a group, is less easy. You could consider LED copper tape but you normally have to buy at least a metre. I did find this:

Boat LEDs

But can't see if they actually sell the coloured bulbs and have not used this company

[Keeping Up]

I've got boxes of old red and green LED's, including some bi-colour ones that show as red, green, or orange (with both lit) but none of them would be bright enough for this application.

[Chalky]

If you're going to do LED nav lights get some clear lenses and use red or green LEDS. Ideally you'll need a metal cased lamp and use 1W, 3W or 4W leds. Look for seoul, cree or lumileds as the maker and you'll want the ones on a star base (£3 - 8) (includes a small pcb and thermal substrate and is easy to bolt down). Attach the LED star to the metal back plate of the lamp and put some thermal paste under it - they will get v / f hot and without a large heatsink they'll fail quite quickly. You'll need a driver circuit for it - these are too powerful for a resistor. Look for a buck puck or a buck converter module ( about £8). You'll also need a capacitor or two (100v electrolytic) and an inline inductor (detailed in converter data sheet). They'll be bright - very bright, so don't look at them directly - I know someone who was testing some power LEDS and now has permenent retina damage.

 

For cabin lights I use seoul P4 U bin 130lm (@350ma) LEDS and run them at 700ma. The LED runs at 3.4V Vfd which gives me a running current of about 200ma at 12V. I run the leds at about 2.4W 200/220lm - I could crank them up to 4W but it'd affect the life (thermal management is everything). There are some 540lm leds on the market but the vfd is 9V and with the overhead for the buck converter there would not be enough headroom for reliable operation (unless you run at 24v - then the buck converter starts to run out of headroom).

 

I use a 3 way switch on the lights - 1 way turns on the power LED, the other turns on a red LED run through a zener diode/ resistor arrangement (transient management) so I've got a night light for the children.

 

All the bits are available from Farnell

Edited September 20, 2011 by Chalky

[ditchcrawler]

Just doing the LED conversion thing on my boat. Bought all the led 'bulbs' for my existing sockets (mainly G4) from china. Total cost £40 and that includes multiple spares of each. I've bought bright, super bright, and warm. Keeping my mega powerful Halogen reading light.

 

Do you still need to wire in a capacitor with these things..??

 

If they all go bang (which I doubt) I've saved a packet over buying them here. In fact I could buy them all again 3 times over before I get near the cost of buying them here...its ridiculous. Ok they take 25 days to arrive.

All the cheep ones I bought on ebay lasted no more than a year. Ultraleds proved to be longer lasting

[bizzard]

All the cheep ones I bought on ebay lasted no more than a year. Ultraleds proved to be longer lasting

I think you have to pay a bit more for the automotive more tolerant ones like from Bedazzled. bizzard

[Chalky]

All the cheep ones I bought on ebay lasted no more than a year. Ultraleds proved to be longer lasting

 

I've also had problems with cheap ebay ones. The LEDS are soldered onto standard FR4 pcb and are too close together. There's no heat management included in the PCB design and they run too hot so fail quickly. The ones I've got have 3 strings of 3 LEDs so they operate at about +10V ish. Not a lot of headroom. They also use SMD resistors to current limit and the power they dissipate helps cook the LEDs due to the poor thermal design. They were only 99p - you get what you pay for.

[bizzard]

I've also had problems with cheap ebay ones. The LEDS are soldered onto standard FR4 pcb and are too close together. There's no heat management included in the PCB design and they run too hot so fail quickly. The ones I've got have 3 strings of 3 LEDs so they operate at about +10V ish. Not a lot of headroom. They also use SMD resistors to current limit and the power they dissipate helps cook the LEDs due to the poor thermal design. They were only 99p - you get what you pay for.

I agree,they don't like fluctuating voltage.I think cheap ones are false economy,as the fuel or electricity needed to keep batteries charged is soon re-couped when using LED's. Google Bedazzled amongst others, the manager Richard lives on a boat so know's the score.

[tosher]

I agree,they don't like fluctuating voltage.I think cheap ones are false economy,as the fuel or electricity needed to keep batteries charged is soon re-couped when using LED's. Google Bedazzled amongst others, the manager Richard lives on a boat so know's the score.

I bought 3 different types from this company 3 weeks ago, all 3 arrived faulty. Sent them back (at my expense) and 3 more replacements were delivered, one of these was the wrong type. Two weeks later and at the third attempt I got what I ordered. Hope their LED's are better than their customer service. Also ordered 4 MR16 LED's from China at the same time, they arrived in 5 days, worked perfectly and cost a quarter of the price of the UK ones. Buy British eh!!!

[bizzard]

I bought 3 different types from this company 3 weeks ago, all 3 arrived faulty. Sent them back (at my expense) and 3 more replacements were delivered, one of these was the wrong type. Two weeks later and at the third attempt I got what I ordered. Hope their LED's are better than their customer service. Also ordered 4 MR16 LED's from China at the same time, they arrived in 5 days, worked perfectly and cost a quarter of the price of the UK ones. Buy British eh!!!

I've had excellent service from them,and no faulty ones.They source them from China too.bizzard.

[matty40s]

i have swapped over using a variety of sources, Homebase, Ikea, Midland swindlers and some surplus shopfitting stock.

 

Front cabin and galley is now 100%LED, bedroom/bathroom 50% with the rest going over the next two weekends. I have a mixture of bulbs and strip units.

 

I don't worry about lights being left on any more.

[bottle]

If you're going to do LED nav lights get some clear lenses and use red or green LEDS.

 

I wonder if these would comply with the regulations for Navigation lights.

 

Sorry to be so pedantic but if there is a job to be done it should be done properly.

 

I could put a candle behind a coloured lens (as they probably used to) but it would not now comply.

[WotEver]

I wonder if these would comply with the regulations for Navigation lights.

Why shouldn't they? If you're showing red to port and green to starboard, both over the required arc, why should the lens colour come into it?

 

Tony

 

Looking at the regs they appear to stipulate nothing more than the general colour and the distance over which they must be visible.

[Evo]

If you're going to do LED nav lights get some clear lenses and use red or green LEDS. Ideally you'll need a metal cased lamp and use 1W, 3W or 4W leds. Look for seoul, cree or lumileds as the maker and you'll want the ones on a star base (£3 - 8) (includes a small pcb and thermal substrate and is easy to bolt down). Attach the LED star to the metal back plate of the lamp and put some thermal paste under it - they will get v / f hot and without a large heatsink they'll fail quite quickly. You'll need a driver circuit for it - these are too powerful for a resistor. Look for a buck puck or a buck converter module ( about £8). You'll also need a capacitor or two (100v electrolytic) and an inline inductor (detailed in converter data sheet). They'll be bright - very bright, so don't look at them directly - I know someone who was testing some power LEDS and now has permenent retina damage.

 

For cabin lights I use seoul P4 U bin 130lm (@350ma) LEDS and run them at 700ma. The LED runs at 3.4V Vfd which gives me a running current of about 200ma at 12V. I run the leds at about 2.4W 200/220lm - I could crank them up to 4W but it'd affect the life (thermal management is everything). There are some 540lm leds on the market but the vfd is 9V and with the overhead for the buck converter there would not be enough headroom for reliable operation (unless you run at 24v - then the buck converter starts to run out of headroom).

 

I use a 3 way switch on the lights - 1 way turns on the power LED, the other turns on a red LED run through a zener diode/ resistor arrangement (transient management) so I've got a night light for the children.

 

All the bits are available from Farnell

 

 

So you've done a bit of fannying with LED's then... (I cant believe many of us understood much of that)

 

 

 

Personally, I just borrowed a couple with the right ends and plugged them in...they worked so I've ordered loads more.

[Chalky]

I'm about to order parts to convert another light. I'll take some photos and write it up as a guide should anyone else want to do the same.

[WotEver]

I'm about to order parts to convert another light. I'll take some photos and write it up as a guide should anyone else want to do the same.

That'd be good

 

With Gibbo's departure you're the new resident expert on automotive leccy stuff

[tosher]

That'd be good

 

With Gibbo's departure you're the new resident expert on automotive leccy stuff

 

 

Where's he gone? What happened? Must have missed it.

[bottle]

Why shouldn't they? If you're showing red to port and green to starboard, both over the required arc, why should the lens colour come into it?

 

Tony

 

Looking at the regs they appear to stipulate nothing more than the general colour and the distance over which they must be visible.

 

From here: http://www.dft.gov.u...EA8FD9E3276F400

 

 

2. Installation:

 

2.1 The installation of navigation lights should comply with the COLREGs, Annex 1 (Positioning and Technical details of Lights and Shapes). Guidance is in the MCA's Instructions for the Guidance of Surveyors – Survey of Lights and Signalling Equipment.

 

2.2 Manufacturers' instructions on installation, maintenance and replacement should be closely followed and:

 

• Replacement items, such as lamps or new technology light sources, should be identical or equivalent to the original.
• Chromatic accuracy of any replacement light source, when placed behind a lens, should comply with COLREGs in all respects.
• Before the installation of new technology light sources, such as LEDs, in existing lanterns the manufacturers of the mounting/lighting unit should be consulted to assess suitability.
• If there is any doubt as to the suitability or compatibility of "replacement lamps" with the lantern, then the replacement item should not be used.
• If in any doubt about the compliance of the unit, when assembled, if possible seek advice from the manufacturer of the lantern rather than the supplier of any replacement light source.

Edited September 21, 2011 by bottle

[WotEver]

From here: http://www.dft.gov.u...EA8FD9E3276F400

Ahah!

 

T.

[bizzard]

Hooray,good old nav lights again. Red and green close together on a pole at a distance = brown.

[WotEver]

Additive, my friend, additive

[jelunga]

Hi Alan.

 

If you think about it, on a narrow boat you are only likely to use your nav lights whilst you are moving. Therefore the engine will be on and charging and you will not save any power worth saving. Therefore LEDs are probably a waste of money for nav lights except as Phylis mentioned, for an anchor light.

 

 

 

K

 

 

 

So I still wonder whether I could simply replace the bulbs in my nav lights with white LEDs.

 

It's probably a good thing that I never use them anyway!

[Keeping Up]

One reason I was thinking about it, is that my existing ones, like those on most narrowboats, are more like toys really and certainly wouldn't meet the regulations. A good start would be to have a brighter light source, because with their tiny 5 watt bulbs and fairly thick filters they are ridiculously dim and I don't think there is room to fit a decent wattage of bulb without melting the plastic filter.

[Nickhlx]

One reason I was thinking about it, is that my existing ones, like those on most narrowboats, are more like toys really and certainly wouldn't meet the regulations. A good start would be to have a brighter light source, because with their tiny 5 watt bulbs and fairly thick filters they are ridiculously dim and I don't think there is room to fit a decent wattage of bulb without melting the plastic filter.

 

I agree with the logic there !! ( even if others can't see it )

 

 

Nick

[matty40s]

I agree with the logic there !! ( even if others can't see it )

 

 

Nick

 

I agree entirely, you could have a very bright nav light of whatever colour with led and no voltage issues.

Once you are cruising, the majority of charge is going to your batts, not lights, and this system willjust ensure more volts are stored rather than wasted.

 

I have just picked up another 8 led strips today, will be installed soon, if any spare, I will let you know