webasto, Eberspacher, or what?????

[Dibbo]

Looking to up grade heating system on our boat, live aboard so want something reliable/ etc So which is better, or are these Hurrican ones any good, and do anyone know of any offers for full kits etc. We're going to be running 4 rads and a calorifier. Heating in saloon will be backed up by a solid fuel.The Lady of the "house" wants a timer system so she can just " turn " it on.

As always thoughts hugely welcome

Dibbo

[Paringa]

http://www.oilstoves.co.uk/appres.php?select=Boilers&select3=All&select2=Oil&select4=All&Submit=+++++Search+Shop+++++

 

Efficient and easy to get spares as it is a domestic boiler.

 

Downside it runs off 240V

 

Commonly used on barges but it does take up a fair bit of space...

 

I wont jinx mine by saying anything but my friend has the same model and after 2 years use as a liveaboard is in excellent condition.

 

Worth a look if only to see what is available. Good luck.

[Tiggers]

Have you thought about a Heritage? They are rather pricey, but do all your heating, hot water and cooking, they are brilliant. Ive tried the Uno and Compact, the set up is just like a domestic one, and you can have it on the timer etc. The guys at Heritage are brilliant as well.

[MikeV]

No personal experience but was talking to one of the top end boat builders and he said they recommend Mikuni over Webasto and Eberspacher to livaboards.

 

As pointed out on another thread it looks as though reliability is dependant on good installation and not trying to run it like a home heating system. Also, I note on the Mikuni site they say their 7kW heater is suitable for a 40-50ft boat, which perhaps refers to a broadbeam as the Eberspacher technical bulletin says you only need 3.5Kw to keep a 70ft narrowboat warm when the outside temp is 0degC.

[Nickhlx]

We have had a Webasto 5 kW for a couple of years with no probs - not even needed to clean out yet, although that is probably because I run it on (the much cleaner burning) 28 second oil / kerosene / Home heating oil, now reaching the lofty heights of 55p / litre.

 

My only slight niggle about it is it's a touch noisy, although I haven't got round to seeing what I can do to silence it - i.e. box it in safely, somehow... but maybe others are noisy too - don't know...

 

Nick

Edited September 19, 2011 by Nickhlx

[bottle]

Dibbo

 

Look at it another way, the 'central heating' will be a back up to the multi-fuel stove in the saloon.

 

I have an Erbaspacher, have run it for approximately 8 Hrs (single hours) in the last two years, we are live aboard, continuous cruisers.

[Dibbo]

Dibbo

 

Look at it another way, the 'central heating' will be a back up to the multi-fuel stove in the saloon.

 

I have an Erbaspacher, have run it for approximately 8 Hrs (single hours) in the last two years, we are live aboard, continuous cruisers.

Hi Keith, thats the plan, one can supplement the other..... does anyone know if a diesel bubble stove can be converted back to a solid fuel?

[Robbo]

http://www.oilstoves.co.uk/appres.php?select=Boilers&select3=All&select2=Oil&select4=All&Submit=+++++Search+Shop+++++

 

Efficient and easy to get spares as it is a domestic boiler.

 

Downside it runs off 240V

 

Commonly used on barges but it does take up a fair bit of space...

 

I wont jinx mine by saying anything but my friend has the same model and after 2 years use as a liveaboard is in excellent condition.

 

Worth a look if only to see what is available. Good luck.

 

Cheers for the link, I've been looking for something to replace my Mikuni but went off this because I thought you needed a vertical flue, but it looks like this can also have a skin fitting flue as well.

[mrsmelly]

Looking to up grade heating system on our boat, live aboard so want something reliable/ etc So which is better, or are these Hurrican ones any good, and do anyone know of any offers for full kits etc. We're going to be running 4 rads and a calorifier. Heating in saloon will be backed up by a solid fuel.The Lady of the "house" wants a timer system so she can just " turn " it on.

As always thoughts hugely welcome

Dibbo

 

On my last boat we had a mikuni mx60 which is I think about 7kw this heated all 5 rads and hot water tank very quickly. It was tempremental and cost a fortune to renovate after 8 years of age but did the job well but was VERY noisey ( Jumbo Jet )

On the present boat we have a webasto I havnt even looked at the model but can say its warm up time is much slower than the mikuni but it gets there in the end its probably a smaller heat output. So far its worked faultlessly and it is barely audible in fact nearly totaly silent which amazed me at first but when doing some work near where it is fitted I noticed it has a very long exhaust pipe with a proper silencer fitted so that must be why. Timers are available for all types.

[Ark Right]

Looking to up grade heating system on our boat, live aboard so want something reliable/ etc So which is better, or are these Hurrican ones any good, and do anyone know of any offers for full kits etc. We're going to be running 4 rads and a calorifier. Heating in saloon will be backed up by a solid fuel.The Lady of the "house" wants a timer system so she can just " turn " it on.

As always thoughts hugely welcome

Dibbo

 

Hi, all the main manufacturers have their pros and cons. That said all the heaters need to be installed correctly to be trouble free, frankly a lot of installs leave a lot to be desired which can lead to the many problems and bad press.

3 very important factors when you are going down the diesel boiler route, do not oversize the boiler, they need to run to capacity to ensure clean burning.

Secondly if you do install with a timer/programmer make sure that it has the facility to run the unit for a minimum of 1 hour each time it starts, again to ensure the unit is getting hot enough to keep it clean burning.

Finally, (although people will tell me shortly that they have one with no problem) do not use a room thermostat in the system unless you can be sure the heater won't "cycle" i.e. turn off and then on frequently due to over sensitivity of room stats. Oh did I mention that's to keep it clean burning

Cheers

A

[Dibbo]

Hi, all the main manufacturers have their pros and cons. That said all the heaters need to be installed correctly to be trouble free, frankly a lot of installs leave a lot to be desired which can lead to the many problems and bad press.

3 very important factors when you are going down the diesel boiler route, do not oversize the boiler, they need to run to capacity to ensure clean burning.

Secondly if you do install with a timer/programmer make sure that it has the facility to run the unit for a minimum of 1 hour each time it starts, again to ensure the unit is getting hot enough to keep it clean burning.

Finally, (although people will tell me shortly that they have one with no problem) do not use a room thermostat in the system unless you can be sure the heater won't "cycle" i.e. turn off and then on frequently due to over sensitivity of room stats. Oh did I mention that's to keep it clean burning

Cheers

A

Thanks, I've found a company called dieselheaters4U.com on the net ( Fleabay as well), will do a webasto kit+ timer for around 800 squid,free postage. ebay status is very good. but they are based in Turkey, anyone used them, heard of them etc. I have emailed them and they assure me the units are genuine Wewbasto stuff, just not paying tax like we do here. It comes with full money back, plus I can pay with paypal which offers protection anyway. Is it wort persueing, dont want to be the turkey here.

[Tony Brooks]

Thanks, I've found a company called dieselheaters4U.com on the net ( Fleabay as well), will do a webasto kit+ timer for around 800 squid,free postage. ebay status is very good. but they are based in Turkey, anyone used them, heard of them etc. I have emailed them and they assure me the units are genuine Wewbasto stuff, just not paying tax like we do here. It comes with full money back, plus I can pay with paypal which offers protection anyway. Is it wort persueing, dont want to be the turkey here.

 

 

Be aware that Marine and Automotive Webastos are in some way different. I think it is related to the shut down or glow plug voltage.

[MikeV]

<snip> ...do not use a room thermostat in the system unless you can be sure the heater won't "cycle" i.e. turn off and then on frequently due to over sensitivity of room stats.

If you want to use a room thermostat get a programmable one which has the ability to control the minimum burn time and number of cycles per hour. Some of the Honeywell models have a recommended setting for oil boilers of 4 minutes minimum burn time and a maximum of 3 burn cycles per hour. This can be set up in the installation mode. For boat diesel heater I think I would increase the minimum burn time to 10 minutes.

[Dibbo]

Be aware that Marine and Automotive Webastos are in some way different. I think it is related to the shut down or glow plug voltage.

Thanks Tony, I asked the "shop owner" about uses and he said this is right one for a boat. but will check again.

[jelunga]

Hi Keith, thats the plan, one can supplement the other..... does anyone know if a diesel bubble stove can be converted back to a solid fuel?

 

No chance at a reasonable cost. Cheaper to buy a new stove. The bubble only has a pressed steel bottom, no air regulation etc.

 

Anyway, I am more than pleased with our Bubble. Produces stacks of heat, little dust, and the fuel is out of sight and not all over the roof etc.

 

 

 

Back to the original question,, Lily Maud has an Eberspacher fitted, a D5W, not the Hydronic.. It was fitted when the boat was built is 1992/3. I do not know of any history before we owned the boat, but in our time, about 22 months, we have had to replace the boiler which had cracked. Maybe it froze in the cold winter before we bought her?

 

Then 4 weeks ago it would not start up reliably. Sometimes it would mostly it wouldn't. Called in the local boat yard who claimed to know about these things. They could not make it run and suggested buying a new one. Being a tight arse and not wanting to spend over £1000 without good reason, I spoke to Eberspacher UK, and described the symptoms. The guy suggested an air pump failure . New one about £120. Well, still in tight arse mode, I thought lets strip the old one. If I cannot fix it I have lost nothing. The interior was full of carbon dust from the brushes. Cleaned it all out, cleaned the commutator, dripped a little oil on the bearings, re assembled and she has now run well for a couple of weeks.

 

We now liveaboard so it is used daily now. BUT, we do not let it stay on for extended periods. It just runs at full power to heat the fin rads and heat the water. Once it is up to temp it goes into low power mode and we will leave it there for up to 1 hr. If it goes into idle mode then it is time to switch off. This will help stop carbon accumulating in the combustion chamber. The switch to low sulphur red diesel has made life better for Epersploggers and Webastos.

 

I will not recommend a Webasto, Mikuni or Eberspacher. But neither will I advise against. So much depends on them being correctly fitted and correctly used. Neither of these conditions happen often I feel.

 

 

 

K

[blackrose]

Looking to up grade heating system on our boat, live aboard so want something reliable/ etc So which is better, or are these Hurrican ones any good, and do anyone know of any offers for full kits etc. We're going to be running 4 rads and a calorifier. Heating in saloon will be backed up by a solid fuel.The Lady of the "house" wants a timer system so she can just " turn " it on.

As always thoughts hugely welcome

Dibbo

 

For a liveaboard my feeling is that you should be thinking of this the other way around - reliable solid fuel stove as main heating, unreliable toy (webasto, ebespacher, etc) as backup. Those programmable timers are great until the heater stops working, and then the timer is a complete waste of time! If you want diesel as your main form of heating you should be looking at a reliable drip-fed diesel heater such as a Bubble, etc.

Edited September 21, 2011 by blackrose

[Greg Garrard]

Dibbo,

The other posters are absolutely right - do NOT rely on a diesel boiler as your main source of heat and water. I've had an Eberspacher D10W, which was wrongly fitted at first but then sorted out by some serious (and v expensive) experts. Even then, it has gone wrong constantly in ways that have nothing to do with poor quality fuel etc. Basically, every component that can fail has failed! It's cost me a bloomin' fortune in replacement parts (though it seems I could have rescued some bits if some of these posts are right!). I'm now thinking of just using my immersion heater (shore power) to heat water, and wood and coal in my Squirrel to keep warm. The Eber is just too pricy and unreliable.

 

Obviously other people will have had better luck, but the bad odour surrounding Ebers and boats is very strong indeed...

Cheers,

Greg

[matty40s]

Dibbo,

The other posters are absolutely right - do NOT rely on a diesel boiler as your main source of heat and water. I've had an Eberspacher D10W, which was wrongly fitted at first but then sorted out by some serious (and v expensive) experts. Even then, it has gone wrong constantly in ways that have nothing to do with poor quality fuel etc. Basically, every component that can fail has failed! It's cost me a bloomin' fortune in replacement parts (though it seems I could have rescued some bits if some of these posts are right!). I'm now thinking of just using my immersion heater (shore power) to heat water, and wood and coal in my Squirrel to keep warm. The Eber is just too pricy and unreliable.

 

Obviously other people will have had better luck, but the bad odour surrounding Ebers and boats is very strong indeed...

Cheers,

Greg

 

Indeed, I have an eberspacher, and run it for 30 minutes a day summer and winter,if not cruising for hot water.

It was installed on 2003.

It is for hot water only, not to run the radiators as the stove suffices, however, I do leave one radiator 1/2 on so the pressure doesn't build up too much.

I have never had an issue with it in 3 years (touch wood).

[Chalky]

Be aware that Marine and Automotive Webastos are in some way different. I think it is related to the shut down or glow plug voltage.

 

It's the operating voltages and also the cut in and cut out temperatures for the burner. There are also other parameters such as if its CAN or hard wired controlled, how much CO it produces etc. The whole lot can be adjusted if you have the right kit (and the relevant components are on the PCB). Some are just parameter changes, others require a complete software reflash.

[bigcol]

We've installed Rayburn is in the kitchen, we are changing existing plastic pipe for all copper.

Being installed Gravity fed, but also have circulation pump for back up.

I've asked the question before and on another post, but can't find the post.

but can or how do we do the plumbing connect to ebespacher for a back up heating? Using same pipework

So we have the solid fuel heating, also can use the ebespacher if we choose not to have the Rayburn on.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Col

[smileypete]

We've installed Rayburn is in the kitchen, we are changing existing plastic pipe for all copper.

Being installed Gravity fed, but also have circulation pump for back up.

I've asked the question before and on another post, but can't find the post.

but can or how do we do the plumbing connect to ebespacher for a back up heating? Using same pipework

So we have the solid fuel heating, also can use the ebespacher if we choose not to have the Rayburn on.

 

Probably not impossible - but definitely not easy.

 

In an ideal world you'd have someone with a strong background in that sort of thing (like an NMEA of boat backboiler heating ) to do it or at least help in person.

 

Failing that maybe just hook up the eber to the calorifier alone for summer water heating, and see how things go from there.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Neil Smith]

You could fit a manual change over valve.

 

Neil

[NMEA]

Another boat builder with little or no real knowlege of heating systems, Mikuni have been out of production for some time. Personally I would not recommend any evaporator heater as the ideal solution for a live aboard regardless of make.

was talking to one of the top end boat builders and he said they recommend Mikuni over Webasto and Eberspacher to livaboards.

I will not recommend a Webasto, Mikuni or Eberspacher. But neither will I advise against. So much depends on them being correctly fitted and correctly used. Neither of these conditions happen often I feel.

Amen to that, and not just a feeling.

Edited March 6, 2015 by NMEA