Breasting up

[paddy r]

I recently put my butty in the water and intend to start selling coal up and down the River Witham. Because my wife is at work during the week, I was going to breast them up when moving them around. My query is the motor boat is 61feet and the butty is 30odd feet, do I strap them stern to stern or bow to bow? Should I just cross strap and drag behind remembering that I will be on my own? There is only one lock to worry about (Bardney,wide). All thoughts gratefully received.

[stagedamager]

When we had Meteor, with our 55' tug, we breasted up stern to stern, and had an eyelet welded on Meteor's gunnel for the tug to tie to. Worked absolutely fine underway.

HTH

Dan

[Davidss]

Not a criticism, just an observation, that this topic of coupling longer and shorter boats together has been covered in the fairly recent past, I'd say within the last 12 months, if not 6 months, so a bit of practice with the Search engine should prove rewarding.

 

HTH

[mrsmelly]

Not a criticism, just an observation, that this topic of coupling longer and shorter boats together has been covered in the fairly recent past, I'd say within the last 12 months, if not 6 months, so a bit of practice with the Search engine should prove rewarding.

 

HTH

 

Hi

 

The only problem is the search facility is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard and tends to bring up all sorts of unrelated threads to wade through so why not ask the question again ? after all thats what keeps the forum going.

[Naughty Cal]

I recently put my butty in the water and intend to start selling coal up and down the River Witham. Because my wife is at work during the week, I was going to breast them up when moving them around. My query is the motor boat is 61feet and the butty is 30odd feet, do I strap them stern to stern or bow to bow? Should I just cross strap and drag behind remembering that I will be on my own? There is only one lock to worry about (Bardney,wide). All thoughts gratefully received.

 

You shouldnt have much problem breasting them up stern to stern. We have to tow bow to bow to keep the flow of water around the drive clean but that doesnt seem to matter on a NB. My one concern for you though would be the lack of coal trade on the Witham!!

[Keeping Up]

Definitely stern to stern - although I must say that I find it slightly easier to manoeuvre if the stern of the unpowered shorter boat is just 2 or 3 feet ahead of the stern of the longer powered one.

[Chris Pink]

I recently put my butty in the water and intend to start selling coal up and down the River Witham. Because my wife is at work during the week, I was going to breast them up when moving them around. My query is the motor boat is 61feet and the butty is 30odd feet, do I strap them stern to stern or bow to bow? Should I just cross strap and drag behind remembering that I will be on my own? There is only one lock to worry about (Bardney,wide). All thoughts gratefully received.

 

Cross straps is by far the easiest and most efficient way of two boating and single handed, especially with a short butty is no problem at all. You would be advised to breast for mooring stern to stern, makes it easy to move from boat to boat. The only difficulty is the cleat on the motor which depending on the height of the butty bow would either be on the gunwale or roof. You also might want to consider anser pin(s) for easier working when breasted. They also make a quick and easy way of strapping the boats when using the stern dollies for mooring lines.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Chris Pink

[Keeping Up]

Cross straps would certainly be the best approach on a typical canal. However on a river which is as deep and wide as the Witham, and given the need to be able to stop in such a way as to transfer coal from the butty, I suspect that in this unusual case breasting up may actually be easier and more efficient.

[Davidss]

... The only problem is the search facility is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard ...

That observation is rubbish!

Don't criticise the tool just because you can't use it.

Like handling a boat, think about what you are doing, change your method and practise until you get the result you want.

 

I put in three words, breasted long short.

I got 8 results, of which the first one is here, and is entirely appropriate.

[sociable_hermit]

That observation is rubbish!

Don't criticise the tool just because you can't use it.

Like handling a boat, think about what you are doing, change your method and practise until you get the result you want.

 

I put in three words, breasted long short.

I got 8 results, of which the first one is here, and is entirely appropriate.

That's a curious attitude to take.

 

If something that should be simple to use intuitively is actually complicated and non-intuitive, that says to me that it isn't really fit for purpose.

 

Boat handling is fun, and worth practising. Wasting hours trying to come up with an optimum strategy for the forum's search function, isn't.

[carlt]

 

I put in three words, breasted long short.

I got 8 results, of which the first one is here, and is entirely appropriate.

But is there any reason why we can't discuss something again?

 

We're not going to fill up the interweb, just yet, and it is a discussion forum, not a wikithingy.

 

If you don't want to go over old ground don't join in.

 

All you've done is start an off-topic discussion which, surely, is worse than a new member not mastering the search facility?

 

I was only talking about the kids to Swmbo, the other day, and she said "Shut up! We talked about them last week."

[mayalld]

But is there any reason why we can't discuss something again?

 

We're not going to fill up the interweb, just yet, and it is a discussion forum, not a wikithingy.

 

If you don't want to go over old ground don't join in.

 

All you've done is start an off-topic discussion which, surely, is worse than a new member not mastering the search facility?

 

I was only talking about the kids to Swmbo, the other day, and she said "Shut up! We talked about them last week."

 

Quite right too.

 

you should be talking about what you can buy for her.

[Chris Pink]

Cross straps would certainly be the best approach on a typical canal. However on a river which is as deep and wide as the Witham, and given the need to be able to stop in such a way as to transfer coal from the butty, I suspect that in this unusual case breasting up may actually be easier and more efficient.

 

That is something he'll find out with experience.

[P R]

But is there any reason why we can't discuss something again?

 

We're not going to fill up the interweb, just yet, and it is a discussion forum, not a wikithingy.

 

If you don't want to go over old ground don't join in.

 

All you've done is start an off-topic discussion which, surely, is worse than a new member not mastering the search facility?

 

I was only talking about the kids to Swmbo, the other day, and she said "Shut up! We talked about them last week."

What they said

 

That's a curious attitude to take.

 

If something that should be simple to use intuitively is actually complicated and non-intuitive, that says to me that it isn't really fit for purpose.

 

Boat handling is fun, and worth practising. Wasting hours trying to come up with an optimum strategy for the forum's search function, isn't.

 

Hi

 

The only problem is the search facility is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard and tends to bring up all sorts of unrelated threads to wade through so why not ask the question again ? after all thats what keeps the forum going.

[paddy r]

Not a criticism, just an observation, that this topic of coupling longer and shorter boats together has been covered in the fairly recent past, I'd say within the last 12 months, if not 6 months, so a bit of practice with the Search engine should prove rewarding.

 

HTH

Thanks for that,ever asked why new folk don't post?

 

 

 

Thanks for all the other answers ,It is something i will have to learn with experience,I tryed bow to bow the other Sunday it seemed ok but i did get a lot of weed build up between the boats(about a foot of duck weed),will try stern to stern this weekend.I know there isn't much call for coal on the witham but if i don't sell i'll just use it myself.Its only a hobby job at the moment,

[Chickadee]

Hope you don't mind me using this thread rather than starting another one (totally agree about the search engine, I can never find anything but don't have problem on other forums)

 

Looks like we will be going up the Severn at some point over the weekend and taking a 60ft boat with us. My boat is only 42ft we are thinking that it would probably be a worth breasting up but just wondered the best way to do it. Would a center line point be strong enough to take being used for this?

[Chris Pink]

No, if you're breasted up you want tie stern to stern. The resultant pair won't be very manoeuvrable. I assume your 40 foot has the engine?

 

I would advise towing on cross straps one behind the other.

 

Then it makes the size of engine a more important factor than the relative lengths.

 

On no account tow with centre lines that's a disaster waiting to happen and more than a little dangerous

Edited March 8, 2012 by Chris Pink

[Chickadee]

mmmm ok i'm lead to believe my 40ft has the better engine and we don't know much about the 60ft engine. So probably best to use mine to tow the other then?

 

Still don't know much about engines but since i've been unemployed i've been learning fast!

[ditchcrawler]

Thanks for that,ever asked why new folk don't post?

 

 

 

Thanks for all the other answers ,It is something i will have to learn with experience,I tryed bow to bow the other Sunday it seemed ok but i did get a lot of weed build up between the boats(about a foot of duck weed),will try stern to stern this weekend.I know there isn't much call for coal on the witham but if i don't sell i'll just use it myself.Its only a hobby job at the moment,

I think you will still get just as much weed build up, you may be better singled out.

[Rick-n-Jo]

Hope you don't mind me using this thread rather than starting another one (totally agree about the search engine, I can never find anything but don't have problem on other forums)

 

Looks like we will be going up the Severn at some point over the weekend and taking a 60ft boat with us. My boat is only 42ft we are thinking that it would probably be a worth breasting up but just wondered the best way to do it. Would a center line point be strong enough to take being used for this?

 

My only experience of the Severn was coming down with a 70 foot pair in flood conditions. We started out breasted up (seemed more stable as well as sociable) but soon found that the build up of debris between the boats was really hurting our speed and fuel consumption. We singled out to cross straps mid-stream and flew down to Gloucester.

 

The Severn is prone to floating debris, particularly after heavy rain or when Spring tides reverse the flow above Gloucester.

[ditchcrawler]

That's a curious attitude to take.

 

If something that should be simple to use intuitively is actually complicated and non-intuitive, that says to me that it isn't really fit for purpose.

 

Boat handling is fun, and worth practising. Wasting hours trying to come up with an optimum strategy for the forum's search function, isn't.

Garry Peacock use to rave about this

 

http://www.retailandmarine.co.uk/CWFSearch/index.html

[alan_fincher]

If you breast a long boat alongside a considerably shorter one, and want the short one to be the one powering, my advice is don't tie them with the front ends lined up, (so that the short boat doesn't reach the back of the long one.....)

 

You will be able to turn fine towards the side that the shorter boat is on, but as you attempt to turn towards the side the longer boat is on, you'll really struggle, as your rudder will direct the water from your prop against the side of the towed boat, which will then deflect it the wrong way.

 

If a small boat is towing a longer one, then the back ends must be in line, not the front ends, in my view.

 

This view is substantiated by several pictures I have of Sickle (40 foot tug) in her working days, breasted with full length maintenance boats.

 

(I realise this doesn't answer the question about how to keep the front ends together, if they don't line up though - not usually very easy if both boats have a full cabin - when Sickle was towing hoppers, there is usually something part way along that a rope could be attached to.).

[keble]

Garry Peacock use to rave about this

 

http://www.retailandmarine.co.uk/CWFSearch/index.html

That's great.

But you can use the cwdf native search thing better by doing:

* click the gear wheel to the right of the search box

* fill in search terms and where you want to search

* in the new search form make sure you click "Display results as posts"

 

IMHO that should be the default.

[matty40s]

My only experience of the Severn was coming down with a 70 foot pair in flood conditions. We started out breasted up (seemed more stable as well as sociable) but soon found that the build up of debris between the boats was really hurting our speed and fuel consumption. We singled out to cross straps mid-stream and flew down to Gloucester.

 

The Severn is prone to floating debris, particularly after heavy rain or when Spring tides reverse the flow above Gloucester.

...

which they well could do this weekend..

[Radiomariner]

That observation is rubbish!

Don't criticise the tool just because you can't use it.

Like handling a boat, think about what you are doing, change your method and practise until you get the result you want.

 

I put in three words, breasted long short.

I got 8 results, of which the first one is here, and is entirely appropriate.

 

Was the second one by somebody looking for a long legged woman with big breasts looking for a short but torrid relationship?

If you breast a long boat alongside a considerably shorter one, and want the short one to be the one powering, my advice is don't tie them with the front ends lined up, (so that the short boat doesn't reach the back of the long one.....)

 

You will be able to turn fine towards the side that the shorter boat is on, but as you attempt to turn towards the side the longer boat is on, you'll really struggle, as your rudder will direct the water from your prop against the side of the towed boat, which will then deflect it the wrong way.

 

If a small boat is towing a longer one, then the back ends must be in line, not the front ends, in my view.

 

This view is substantiated by several pictures I have of Sickle (40 foot tug) in her working days, breasted with full length maintenance boats.

 

(I realise this doesn't answer the question about how to keep the front ends together, if they don't line up though - not usually very easy if both boats have a full cabin - when Sickle was towing hoppers, there is usually something part way along that a rope could be attached to.).

Exactly right Alan. I quite often brest up my 46ft boat to my daughters 60ft boat in this fashion, ie with the sterns lined up and powering and steering using my own (familiar) boat, when negotiating flights of double locks. Allowing the "youngsters" to do the lock work. It also allows the steerer to cross easily to the other boat to check clearances (where a lock gate is not quite fully open for instance)

Edited to add: - An additional back spring from the bow of the small powered boat to the stern of the larger boat helps control the boats better when some manoeuvering is necessary.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Radiomariner