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Barby Moorings and the Trade Description Act!!!!??


Annie Girl

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I agree, we must be very careful about what is written.

:)

 

OOps - guilty :-(

 

I for one have made a mistake on this site by mixing up Barby Marina (which is really only 'moorings') with Barby Moorings (which is, on the other hand, likely - one day, maybe - to be more of a 'marina' .. albeit under new ownership perhaps?).

 

My abject apologies to the owners of 'Barby Marina' for my mistake!

 

Trevor

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Regrettably, we also appear to have been conned by these people. We paid a deposit twelve months ago when the marina was due to open last January, since when we have been fobbed off by various excuses for the delays which, in retrospect, appear to have been untrue. We saw the announcement on their website in August whilst we were out on our summer cruise saying they were now open, and the amenities page states quite clearly that everything is up and running. So, we were pleasantly surprised, not least as we had been keeping the boat on EA waters and it meant we didn't have to slog back down Rotherhithe locks. We arrived to find there is absolutely nothing there other than some bits of homemade decking stuck on one bank and an awful lot of mud! There are no pontoons and the only facility is one tap between everyone. The electricity is from a generator which is turned off each evening....and they claim to be an ecological marina! We were plonked on one of these homemade decks to find the marina is too shallow to get up to the edge.

 

However, within 10 minutes of arriving, we were presented with an advance invoice up to December, even though they've had an interest-free loan from us for 12 months! No apology for the state of the place or anything. And at the full rate based on the provision of non-existent facilities. Rather than get into a debate on our first day, we came home and mulled things over. A photo then appeared on their site showing another boat has been breasted up next to ours so we are now sharing the mooring we were given. Moreover, the "new" arrival had been moored bankside and our boat moved outside his. It would also appear from the photo that our landline cable is now in the water passing underneath the stern deck of the new arrival - this is why I was trying to find the owner on here yesterday - if he starts up his engine without noticing it's likely the cable will be sliced-up in the water .....so if you are reading.....

 

I wrote to the owners yesterday expressing concern they had moved my boat without contacting me, and also suggested it was fair to reduce the fees until such time as the marina is actually functioning as I feel it is unreasonable to be paying full whack when there are none of the advertised facilities and my "mooring" is just being breasted up outside another boat.

 

The response? As you're unhappy you can just piss off, or words to that effect. No dialogue, no comment, nothing. Well, I guess apart from being livid I feel something of a fool and a plonker for trusting these people and parting with my cash - at least it now appears we are not alone and I've since become aware of several other very unhappy boaters. You live and learn, but I hope this might act as a cautionary tale to anyone else. There is currently no work being done there (and it looks like there is at least a years worth left) other than the female partner trying to lay some cabling. A shambles!

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I have to be cautious as I speak as one who is resident here.

I was disappointed to discover that none of the facilities were operational which meant I had a four hour round trip to Braunston to get a pump out. Rather than being beam on to other boats I managed to talk Mr McMaster into putting me bankside but that in itself wasn't workable as I single hand. I haven't yet mastered the fine art of walking on water and due to the stupid design of these spots, the prefered option of using my centre line to tie off with isn't. (An option that is.) Rock on the pontoons!

On a slightly more optimistic note, we have had 24 hour power since Christmas Eve and it's still free but I've been told that meters will be installed in the "not too distant future". I just hope that this statement is about as realistic as all the other assurances I've recieved!

Yes we now have pump out facilities, elsan point and diesel but getting to the service quay can be "interesting" even for someone such as myself who is pretty experienced, down-right dangerous for a novice due to all the boats tied off near by.

In the defence of clan McMaster, many pontoons have been fabricated and one has been floated out and possitioned and in all fairness it has been too windy of late to do much more so I'm reasonably optimistic that come a period of settled weather much more will be done and we can get onto our prefered locations sooner rather than later and with luck it may encourage others to come here despite all the bad press.

Looking at the bigger picture, Barby, once finished and has had a chance to mature will surely be one of the premier marinas in the country so I'm willing to endure a miserable winter in the hope that 2012 will see a kick start to progress.

You might be interested to hear that despite all the shortcomings, the spirit between those of us that "spend a hell of a lot of time on our boats" (not live-aboads of course!)is alive and well and is perhaps one of the most friendly places I've encountered.

So not all doom and gloom. Not ideal either I admit.

Watch this space!

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Watch this space!

 

I don't think anyone is really complaining about the length of time the marina is taking to complete, but the money grabbing dishonesty of the owners, and they will still be money grabbing and dishonest when the marina is complete. All it would have taken would of them to be honest and give the early adopters discounts...

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I don't think anyone is really complaining about the length of time the marina is taking to complete, but the money grabbing dishonesty of the owners, and they will still be money grabbing and dishonest when the marina is complete. All it would have taken would of them to be honest and give the early adopters discounts...

Quite normal for one marina on the K&A

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Interesting to see two such positive postings, though the only real change to the site in the last four months that I can ascertain from them is that one pontoon has finally been floated into position. (The pump-out was, allegedly, installed and operational before the marina opened in July). Odd, then, that the company website still advertises 91 pontoon and 17 bankside "premium moorings" as being already built, along with a site plan dated May detailing each one.

 

Is it fair to now assume the Digital TV and LAN Broadband which are still being advertised as supplied to every boat are now actually installed and available to every boat?

 

Is the bar and restaurant I, and others, were assured would be built and operational by Christmas now open for business?

 

Is the previously advertised hi-tech security system now in place or is site access still via the Barby Lane gate over half a mile away from the ungated "marina" entrance down a badly made up isolated track shared with all the other surrounding landowners and, in fact, anyone else who chooses to use it? Whilst the gate is occasionally padlocked, there is no register of who actually has keys or how many copies have been made.

 

What is the lead time on completion of the other outstanding facilities (which were, up until November, being advertised as operational) - Cafe, Laundrette, Toilet, Showers, Shop, two retail units, workshops, repairs, liftout, blacking - which necessitated two ASA judgements before Barby Moorings Ltd were forced to admit they didn't exist?

 

Any empathy I had for the "clan McMaster" evaporated in September when, having been systematically and deliberately lied to (and, to be fair, fallen for it) over the previous 11 months regarding progress I then received a demand for more money on top of the £400 deposit I had already paid for a pontoon mooring and facilities which, quite simply, did not exist. Having been allocated a "temporary" substitute my boat was then relocated (and damaged!) the moment I went home and the mooring given to someone else....who has since also been evicted!!

 

Whilst some may have been able to get a refund after a struggle, others still haven't had anything. Some of us have also been threatened in various ways by the "clan McMaster". A number of us have had to initiate court action against Barby Moorings Ltd to return these funds and, in my case, also for damage to my boat whilst in the "marina" (see para below). It is, no doubt, these unreturned funds which have financed the piecemeal work which has continued at the site.

 

So, a couple of cautionary tales. As I said above, I left my boat on a "bankside" mooring which was allocated to me in lieu of the designated pontoon I had reserved which wasn't (and still isn't) built. I am not a liveaboard therefore it is essential I can trust the marina where I keep my boat to take good care of it whilst I am not there - I do not think this is an unreasonable expectation given the fees charged. However, when I left my boat it was actually aground and it was evident the basin excavation was inadequate - my boat draws around 2'3", so it's not what you would call "out of the ordinary". My boat was then moved at least twice - the first time was when I noticed a photo on their website showing another boat was now on the mooring I had been allocated and mine was now just rafted to it with the shorepower cable just chucked in the water. Then, when we went to move the boat to its new marina (having been told to remove it from Barby after raising the lack of facilities issue) we found it had been moved again - as it turned out to the far end of the site. When we asked Ms Leede why, when, by whom and to where the boat had been moved she claimed to have no idea. Not very encouraging from someone who lives and works on site and is a co-Director of the business, I would suggest. Once we had located our boat (stern-on to some incomplete piling with a trench in front of it) the reason for her reticence became clear - the floor of the interior was strewn with every last thing that wasn't bolted down, including the LCD TV/DVD player (which by some miracle still works!), the eco-fan, glasses, crockery and ornaments , many of which were smashed leaving broken glass and china all over the floor. Furthermore, the bath and the engine bay were half full of dirty water. Evidently, as they were unable to gain access and consequently couldn't start the engine, to free the boat from being aground "clan McMaster" had first tipped the boat then "bounced" it until it was free. Consequently, the drain holes from the bath and the engine had both been submerged and water run back in. Judging by the amount in the bath, several gallons, this had gone on for some time. In addition, every last eyelet and tie-back on the cratch cover had been ripped through the material which, in a clumsy effort to disguise it, had then been fixed back to the hull with several yards of black adhesive tape. This is not how a professional or even half-competent outfit would carry on, and it is obvious negligence does not bother them.

 

So, as well as losing my deposit, having to find another mooring and take time out to move the boat there, I have had about £700 of damage done to my boat. The fate of this now rests with the County Court.

 

A note of caution to the liveaboard community there - whilst they may be turning a blind eye and claiming you "just need to walk your dog every three days", I'm sure you all know that McMaster has altered the Terms and Conditions to state, quite specifically:

 

"No Vessel within the Marina or Premises is to be used as a primary residence. The Owner, his crew, members of his family and/or any other person shall not stay on any boat or other vessel for a period in excess of 72 hours in any seven day period"

 

This is exactly in line with the express conditions under which planning consent was given. Good or bad, the planning authority will visit Barby Moorings unannounced to check the marina has been constructed in line with the consent in exactly the same way they visit any other major development. Given his track record of dealing with other customers, I would not be under any illusion that McMaster will try and protect your tenancy, rather he is more likely to hide behind his Ts & Cs and you may well join the ever-growing list of evictees. He is not the type to fall on his sword to protect anyone. I would also be nervous that if the day ever did come when he lets all 108 berths to leisure boaters, liveaboards may well no longer be welcome. Be sure you are not simply providing an interim income until the mess is sorted out or the planning authorities catch on. If it were me, and given that there are virtually no residential moorings available in the area, I would want something in writing protecting my tenancy, not least as if you read back through this thread you will see some liveaboards have been evicted at an hours notice.

 

Andichan - yes, I agree there was a friendly community there and I also met some nice people. Sadly, many of these have since been evicted and/or have lost a substantial sum of money. Those who have posted here are just a minority. I was also aware they were also very fearful. Some were worried that they had been misled over the "residential" status of the marina, others simply afraid of being the next "victim". On the day we left my partner was verbally abused and threatened but, unfortunately, the one liveaboard witness (a genuinely nice person) said they couldn't get involved as they "couldn't afford to get thrown out and go anywhere else". A very sad state of affairs and no one should have to live in fear of their "landlord", don't you think? I hope the positive things you wish for do materialize soon as they are currently 16 months overdue!! Given the track record of the man, though, you're very brave posting your boat name on here given that you've called their £5,500 per year bankside moorings "a stupid design"! Not sure about it becoming "one of the premier marinas in the country", though - even if completed, it won't offer anything different to many other marinas, you can't really argue it's in a particularly attractive setting, and it's not exactly quiet given that one boundary of the site is the M45!

 

Nina Barby Moorings knew in June 2010 they did not have sufficient funding for this project before the first sod was even cut. Rather than be honest and up front, they then embarked on a 17 month exercise in mis-selling, unkept commitments and, worst of all, taking money off genuine boaters against claims and promises they knew would never be met. In effect, they planned to use business cashflow and not capital to finance the project which could only be obtained by taking deposits for moorings which didn't exist. Do you think this catalogue of deceit would be fair under any circumstances? The only thing that has since stopped them making these false claims is the action of boaters and the Advertising Standards Agency, not any newfound conscience by the "clan McMaster". As late as June this year they took out a newspaper article (Northampton Chronicle & Echo) calling themselves a "£1 million marina". I find your use of the word "loyal" interesting, too - I think you will find the liveaboards' "loyalty" is more a case of them not having anywhere else to go in the area unless they can meet the "continuous cruiser" guidelines. Yes, it was a tough year for raising finance, but it was a bloody sight tougher for the poor sods who parted with their money to this company, not to mention the distress and worry caused to decent people by this whole sorry saga.

 

Does it not occur to anyone that the reason for the high number of evictions might just be due to the Company having (according to their own claims) sold 100 moorings when only 17 were available and then, having announced to the world that they were fully open, realising they had 100 boats (£40,000 worth of deposits) all heading in their direction and nowhere to put them??

 

Pretty well all the work done so far at Barby has been on a "DIY" basis, most of it, apparently, by Ms Leede with her own JCB and occasionally helped by a couple of other chaps and McMaster Junior. One now has to wonder exactly when and how the remainder of the work, which will also consume the biggest chunk of finance, will take place. Barby has now reached a point where "DIY" will no longer suffice as the works ahead of them are all major construction and building projects which will have to conform to Building and Health and Safety regulations as well as the specifications laid out in the planning consent.

 

From my own point of view, all they had to do was to be honest with us. I rather doubt now that the leopard has changed it's spots.

  • Greenie 1
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From my own point of view, all they had to do was to be honest with us. I rather doubt now that the leopard has changed it's spots.

 

 

Dave, I feel very sorry for you and all the other poor and terribly abused people, that all counted on the promises made by McMaster,

and I can do nothing but agree with your writing, about honesty.

 

If everybody would have known about the situation they were going to find there, and would have been willing to sort of sponsor an honest man trying to create a nice marina, and that would have given them in return for their willingness and financial help a decent discount, instead of endless lies and threatening of his unvoluntary sponsors, it would have been a different story.

 

Good luck,

 

Peter.

Edited by bargemast
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I too have sympathy for everyone who has lost out in this very bad situation but I have to ask the question. Did you not inspect the marina first hand on site before handing any money over or signing a contract?

 

You do have my empathy though.

http://www.rbs.com/media/news/press-releases/2011-press-releases/2011-06-27-barby-marina.ashx

 

This link is still live....

perhaps the banking ombudsman needs to be involved.....................

 

I too have sympathy for everyone who has lost out in this very bad situation but I have to ask the question. Did you not inspect the marina first hand on site before handing any money over or signing a contract?

 

You do have my empathy though.

http://www.rbs.com/media/news/press-releases/2011-press-releases/2011-06-27-barby-marina.ashx

hi nina,

many people book months, and even years ahead for moorings.

I passed Barby last in 2009 when they were marking out the fields for the marina.It willnever be complete and under full power due to my fatigue....>>>>>>>>>>>

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It does not say 'when' the facilities are due to be available. Unfortunately, when it comes to the law and contract, if there's no 'when' or date for finishing, it is difficult to establish how anyone has been mislead because the work is in progress. If they advertised that the marina would be completed with all facilities operational by September 2011 for example, then there would be bones to pick.

 

Nina, you are rather missing something here which leads me to believe you either haven't actually read the whole thread or, for some reason, have chosen to ignore the salient points. From July until November, Barby Moorings Ltd were advertising on their website and in half page spreads in the boating press (Waterways World, Towpath Talk, Canal Boat etc) that the marina was fully open and that all the facilities were in place. . If you re-read my (admittedly long) post above, together with those from other aggrieved boaters, you will see that it was only due to the efforts of those who had lost money that the ASA ordered these adverts to be withdrawn and the website to be amended.

 

People were misled because the advertising and the statements made by the owners were completely false. It is only because of these ASA judgements that Barby Moorings have been legally compelled to insert the words "will offer" onto their website, though you will notice that they are still advertising fully serviced pontoons even though they don't exist.

 

Your comments and opinions are welcome but, as they are currently phrased, seem somewhat wide of the mark when it comes to facts.

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My friends called at the marina 4 or 5 times from the end of 2009 to when they were finally told it was all up and running in July 2011. They did email before leaving their previous marina to double check and was emailed back stating it was definately ready (this for a bankside mooring). Having spoken to McMaster on previous occasions and he came across as a nice honest man (which we all know is not the case!), because when they arrived there at the end of July, having received the confirmation email saying it was ready. There was no facilities except one water tap up at the dockside area where they were told to moor. They were told that the facilities were up and ready and at that time the adverts implied that was the case also. As DaveG has suggested, we also suggest you read the whole complete thread!. Also any back dated ads in the Canal magazines etc. before making comments of this nature on this forum. Needless to say my friends stayed as long as their pre-payment fees lasted and then got out fast.

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Nina, For the sake of clarity the original (printed) fact sheet says "opening in the autumn of 2010"; later (in November 2010) the company wrote to those who had paid deposits with a letter headed "delay in opening till late February (2011)". At some point which is clearly shown earlier in this thread, all advertising and public statements were changed to show "Now fully open" - as they still do. At no point has there been any public admission that only limited facilities are available, conversely there has not been any further communication that I am aware of, to those who like me have paid a deposit - either to say it is open, or that opening has been delayed - just silence. My own history of contact with the site and owners is also as shown earlier.

I cannot imagine that there are any circumstances in which the company is not in default of its obligations to its "customers"; my own conclusion has been wrongly or rightly, that pursuing my deposit would be to throw good money after bad.

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>>>Snippity>>>

I cannot imagine that there are any circumstances in which the company is not in default of its obligations to its "customers"; my own conclusion has been wrongly or rightly, that pursuing my deposit would be to throw good money after bad.

 

Have you considered going through a Small Claims procedure - I understand that the costs of doing so are very limited, and that you put forward your own case, initially in writing I think.

This may well be useful for those whom wish to recover their funds from the McMasters Clan

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Not only "quite cheap" (£50 for a claim between £300 and £500) you can do it on line, which saves a few quid (£35 for a claim between £300 and £500)

And that is the limit of your exposure, and if you win that money can be (is?) added to your claim, so it may actually cost nothing if you win.

The biggest hassle is filling in the forms and working out what you can/can't claim so a trip to a CAB may help (and that can be a lot less than paying a solicitor for the same advice.)

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Not only "quite cheap" (£50 for a claim between £300 and £500) you can do it on line, which saves a few quid (£35 for a claim between £300 and £500)

And that is the limit of your exposure, and if you win that money can be (is?) added to your claim, so it may actually cost nothing if you win.

The biggest hassle is filling in the forms and working out what you can/can't claim so a trip to a CAB may help (and that can be a lot less than paying a solicitor for the same advice.)

 

Don't forget that a warrant for recovery will incur more fees however this is good advice as not only the charging order mentioned earlier, but attachments of earnings, garnishee orders (recovery direct from bank accounts) or indeed distraint (bailiffs) can be made by the Court.

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Welcome, Andy, and thanks for the inside information.

Thanks for the welcome! I appreciate it very much. By the way, Happy New Year to all!

Considering it's a Bank Holiday today (2nd January,) the boys have been out working on the pontoons on the area know as 'Smeaton'.

This is the one just on the left as you enter the marina and where I'm supposed to be! YEAH!!!!

Mr McMaster did, by all accounts put on free beer and grub on New Years Eve but I'd been invited to go to Blisworth Marina where my brother Steve has his boat 'Tambourine' berthed.

I don't recall too much of the evening!

I will keep everyone who has an interest with updates as and when there is something of note to report - next September maybe?

I have a blog that is www.nbisis.net and I tend to update this on a fairly regular basis and I'm happy to include useful information / photos you might find pertinant to anything on there.

Down hill now and we'll laugh about this come the summer, maybe!

BBQ time, crazy cyclists on the towpath, rabid dogs on the loose, kids driving hire craft unsupervised?

It'll be fun!!

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  • 3 weeks later...

I walked the towpath from Norman's Bridge about a week ago and saw pontoons, developing landscape and a number of people with bright yellow jackets 'working'. Also noticed a number of boats in scattered locations and apparently on pontoons and a 'large' huddle just in from the entrance. I was told locally that the people involved are trying very hard to produce a result and are 'not finding it easy'. I was not enamoured of the sign out on the cut warning people not to use the entrance as a winding hole but proceed (east) a mile to turn. It gave off threatening vibes. :rolleyes:

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29th December: one (pontoon) has been floated out and positioned. (Andichan)

posted today: When I passed last week three pontoons had been put in place (Adam1uk)

 

So, that's about one a week, and with another 42 (by my count) to go the pontoons should be in by about the 12th November. These are, of course, the same pontoons that we were promised in September would all be installed that month. Last year's convenient bad weather excuse can't be blamed this year, either. Then there's the construction of the Bar/Restaurant, the cafe, the chandlery, the two "boutiques", the workshops, the laundry, the showers, lift-out etc etc. to be done, all far bigger and more expensive projects than the pontoons. So, at this rate, I would guess another two years at least before the "marina" represents anything like the specification that was being advertised and charged for as "fully open" back at the end of July. And it's now 16 months since it was originally claimed it would be open and nearly two years since they started taking money from people on this pretext..

 

'not finding it easy' - I know how they feel!

Edited by DaveG
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Hi Danny1

No Dad didn't hang around after getting there and finding NOTHING there except one water pipe. He was told it would all be ready in July so he arrived end of July, but decided not to stay as there wasn't anyone working except the owners family and he realised it was going to be a long job. Dad has now got a place in a nice marina with everything there.

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