Re: 'Looking Poss live on Boat in future!??

[Smudge38]

Hello All,.

I have previous posted a Message about being Newbiee to all this Canal & barge stuff. I am posting another Message in hope that someone will enlighten me much further.

I have been looking at and thinking about possible Barge living in future..as I want different lifestyle than 4 walls.I have been doing quite a lot research various sources (Internet,Barge Magazine, etc).. & have found out various stuff.

Could anyone please answer this Q. I recently printed off the Inland Waterways Licence Fees document (..Listing all prices for 6months, yearly, etc)). I was so astonished to see the price differences between having your Barge on Canals&Rivers, and then just Rivers! This points me to the next Q. I wonder if anyone could answer!?

I have done bit research into the Old days, on the Canals, the Old Boats, etc..

After doing all this it seems me now that it has changed quite a lot since the Old Working Barges where working on & thus little expense to NOW the Modern Barges that on the Canals. It seems 2 me Now that since it has all become LEISURE for people living on the boats...Inland Waterways..have now jumped on barge Owners & thought We will make this alternative way of living a Expensive Method.

My Q. Is - - Can anybody tell me why? Why, has it gone so Expensive since the OLD Days of Barges, Old Working Boats, etc..

I think way now has gone is a real shame,. because I am a Single person, who cannot finacially afford to get on the Property ladder or near and this is where I think Canal Living/Barge could be real Opition for lot more People in my situation if there was not much Costs or expense to a Alternative lifestyle. The Goverment talk alot mo about SHORTAGE of Housing for people - Well, why not make it Easier for People 2 buy &live on the Canal system!!!

Anyawy,. if anybody could reply to this Message through my E-Mail I would be very grateful my E-mail address is: leedaz9 at yahoo.co.uk

Thank you for your attention ALL.

 

Darren Brennan

[Chagall]

In Ye Olde Days......you could buy a house for less than 10 k, and, as you suggest, it is now impossible for you as a single person to be able to afford to get onto the property ladder, why is that I wonder?

 

simple.... Inflation, on water or off........an easy answer that doesn't really require an enormous brain or an email address to reply to.

[Guest]

Hi Darren,

 

It's a common misconception that living aboard a boat is a much cheaper alternative to living in a house. It can be - but depending on your choice of boat/type living in a house can be cheaper.

 

Keeping a boat running or even just moored stationary on a residential mooring can cost serious money.

 

Yes from a lifestyle perspective it's often much more preferable - it can come at a price though.

[Laurence Hogg]

You claim to have researched carefully? If so why are you using the term "Barge" whilst some of what you are writing seems to refer to narrow canals? A Barge is a craft in excess of 12ft beam, a wide boat in excess of 7ft and a narrowboat up to 7ft (some narrow boats especially old working boats can be up to 7ft 2")

 

As for prices well a £250 butty in 1972 is now a £25000 butty - its call a fact of life - inflation, pro rata you get a lot more better maintained canal or river now than you did in "ye olde days".

[BlueStringPudding]

There's a fair few barges on the GU. Let's not attack the feller.

 

Maybe he actually wants a barge?!

[carlt]

You claim to have researched carefully? If so why are you using the term "Barge" whilst some of what you are writing seems to refer to narrow canals? A Barge is a craft in excess of 12ft beam, a wide boat in excess of 7ft and a narrowboat up to 7ft (some narrow boats especially old working boats can be up to 7ft 2")

 

Could you cite your sources for this definition, Laurence?

 

Except for the "In my opinion" definitions I have never found anything that states specific dimensions, of barges, only that they are flat bottomed boats, originally used for carrying cargo.

 

A narrowboat (in my opinion) is a narrow beam barge (a flat bottomed boat up to 7' wide) , a broad beam barge is a flat bottomed boat between 7' and 14' and a wide beam barge is a flat bottomed boat in excess of 14'.

 

Then again I'm a Northerner, brought up by a wide canal, as opposed to the narrow and broad canals of the Midlands, so what do i know?

[ditchcrawler]

In Ye Olde Days......you could buy a house for less than 10 k, and, as you suggest, it is now impossible for you as a single person to be able to afford to get onto the property ladder, why is that I wonder?

 

simple.... Inflation, on water or off........an easy answer that doesn't really require an enormous brain or an email address to reply to.

My first house in 1971, not the old days by canal standards was £3300 and the chap I bought it off had lost £200 on it since he had owned it, I had to put £300 down which I saved up between when we started looking for a house and completion. Our monthly mortgage was £16

[Bobbybass]

My first house in 1971, not the old days by canal standards was £3300 and the chap I bought it off had lost £200 on it since he had owned it, I had to put £300 down which I saved up between when we started looking for a house and completion. Our monthly mortgage was £16

And...you could go out with 10 shillings..get drunk...and still have money left over for some chips and a bus home.......ahhhhh....

 

bob

[greywolf]

You also have to keep some very expensive admin staff in the luxury they have become accustomed to. . Sorry easy target,they are the main reason everything is more expensive in the uk.

[BlueStringPudding]

And were paid one groat a week and all the common grazing ground your hog could ask for.

Edited September 3, 2011 by BlueStringPudding

[ditchcrawler]

And...you could go out with 10 shillings..get drunk...and still have money left over for some chips and a bus home.......ahhhhh....

 

bob

That's true, I wonder what the cost of a licence was in 72 or even moorings

[mrsmelly]

Hi Darren,

 

It's a common misconception that living aboard a boat is a much cheaper alternative to living in a house. It can be - but depending on your choice of boat/type living in a house can be cheaper.

 

Keeping a boat running or even just moored stationary on a residential mooring can cost serious money.

 

Yes from a lifestyle perspective it's often much more preferable - it can come at a price though.

 

A very sensible post. Too many people think boat living is a cheaper option when it is often not, its just nicer. For example I owned my last house and own my boat now. The cost of council tax and heating/lighting costs combined in my house were considerably less than combined cost of mooring/licence heating lighting etc on my boat, for me its a lifestyle choice we both vastly prefer being on the boat which is were I amtyping from now, ooops look at the time !! pub 20 yds away be rude not to

[sebrof]

In Ye Olde Days......you could buy a house for less than 10 k, and, as you suggest, it is now impossible for you as a single person to be able to afford to get onto the property ladder, why is that I wonder?

 

simple.... Inflation, on water or off........an easy answer that doesn't really require an enormous brain or an email address to reply to.

 

What nonsense.

 

At the time when you could buy a house for £10k, you would have been earning £3k a year.

 

House prices over the long term are very closely linked to average earnings for the simple reason that inflation reduces the value of a mortgage, and therefore makes a house a good investment. But in real money houses don't go up any faster than real incomes. If house prices did, people wouldn't be able to afford them, so prices would come down again. That is happening now.

 

I said over the long term, because the UK has a very silly phenomenon known as the housing cycle. Every ten years or so, politicians leave interest rates too low in order to win the next election, and that makes people think they can afford a more expensive house. So they rush out and try to buy one, which temporarily forces prices up. After a couple of years, reality sets in, inflation rises, and house prices dip below the long term trend, then return to it.

 

Recently we have had an evil clown in charge of the nation's finances, who knew nothing about anything. At a time when the stupid party kept appointing unelectable leaders, Brown kept interest rates too low and allowed an unusually large bubble to arise in house prices.

 

We are paying the penalty for it now. The government has to keep interest rates low because otherwise huge numbers of people will default on their loans. As a consequence, inflation (as it always did) has risen, effectively reducing the value of houses, though most people don't realise that, and in another five years house prices will be back to their old ratio to earnings. We will all be much poorer because our earnings are not keeping pace with inflation, nor will they for many years to come.

Edited September 3, 2011 by sebrof

[DeanS]

Hi Darren.

 

In a house, you pay council tax.

On a boat you dont (if you're a CC-er) but you pay a BW licence which is about the same.

So far, lets say you havent won by being on a boat.

 

In a house you pay elec, water. ..about £100+

in a boat you pay gas, diesel....about £100+

So far, lets say you havent won by being on a boat.

 

In a house you may have a car, and the two may cost in tax, insurance, maintenance...lets say £500 a year?

In a boat you need to black the hull, pay insurance and fix maintenance issues. Could be in the same region, or more.

So far, lets say you havent won by being in a boat.

 

In a house you pay rent each month...lets say £500-£1000

In a boat, you may want to stay in a marina...about £250-£350 pmth (can be less)

You may have to pay a boat finance company back...lets say £400 pmth

Shall we say at this point you havent won by being on a boat. (unless you are a CC-er, and your boat was given to you...in which case you should be winning in the house/boat comparison.

 

In my mind, I win, because when I rent, the cash I pay is lost for ever, but paying for a boat is partly recoverable when I sell.

 

Hope it helps.

Some people spend thousands on their boat...shiny paint jobs, marble kitchen tops, interior decoration, etc. You may not need to do that.

[sebrof]

You claim to have researched carefully? If so why are you using the term "Barge" whilst some of what you are writing seems to refer to narrow canals? A Barge is a craft in excess of 12ft beam, a wide boat in excess of 7ft and a narrowboat up to 7ft (some narrow boats especially old working boats can be up to 7ft 2")

 

As for prices well a £250 butty in 1972 is now a £25000 butty - its call a fact of life - inflation, pro rata you get a lot more better maintained canal or river now than you did in "ye olde days".

 

That is incorrect. A narrowboat is a barge with a beam less than approx 7ft that has been designed for Britain's narrow canals. The oxymoronic expression "wide-beam narrowboat" refers to a barge wider than approx 7ft but otherwise similar in design to a narrowboat.

 

And I imagine that the OP, in his researches, came across broad canals, which permit the passage of barges with a beam less than approx 14ft. YOu might have come across some yourself. The K&A, much of the Grand Union, and several other canals are broad.

 

Stop patronising newbies, and I might refrain from patronising you.

[nbfiresprite]

Hi Darren.

 

In a house, you pay council tax.

On a boat you don`t (if you're a CC-er) but you pay a BW license which is about the same.

It depends on the type of mooring and if you have sole use of it, Than you pay council tax on, I do and

having just been re-banded from A to B under the new rules brought in by "Grabber Brown", Because I

have a waterside view I go up a band.

I live on a boat for two good reasons, 1) I hate the pain of moving house and having to settle in to a new home.

2) I get a better nights rest.

 

One last thing Darren which paper do you write for?. As I smell a reporter. Why else do you require people to reply by email instead of the forum.

 

Firesprite

 

In the wilds of the Fens

Edited September 3, 2011 by nbfiresprite

[blackrose]

The oxymoronic expression "wide-beam narrowboat" refers to a barge wider than approx 7ft but otherwise similar in design to a narrowboat.

 

Which is why the correct expression "narrowboat-style widebeam" makes much more sense.

 

Although narrowboats may actually be narrow barges, I think it's generally accepted that they're not normally referred to as barges - perhaps just so as not to confuse them with wider flat bottomed boats?

Edited September 3, 2011 by blackrose

[carlt]

 

Although narrowboats may actually be narrow barges, I think it's generally accepted that they're not normally referred to as barges - perhaps just so as not to confuse them with wider flat bottomed boats?

Very few barges are referred to by that name, though.

 

Keels, Lighters, Trows, Short Boats, Wherries...all barges, but have other names.

 

There is one type of Norfolk Wherry (I forget which) that is only 3'6" wide. It is still a barge, though.

[blackrose]

Very few barges are referred to by that name, though.

 

Keels, Lighters, Trows, Short Boats, Wherries...all barges, but have other names.

 

Yes, they're all barges - it's a collective term.

 

I wonder why "barge" has become synonymous amongst boaters as a term for wide boats, if narrowboats are also barges?

 

Perhaps Julian (idleness) can tell us if the DBA would welcome a load of narrowboats to one of their rallies? I think it might be pushing it a bit...

 

http://www.barges.org/

Edited September 4, 2011 by blackrose

[real_vibes]

On my boat I am paying off an asset. I do this and pay my rent (which is £300 a month!) and pay my gas and pump out and put some by for blacking for less than my old flats rent before bills.

 

If I didn't chop my own wood, winter bills would be high, but last year i only spent £100 on coal.

 

I work bloody hard doing up the boat all summer and chopping wood all winter, but my savings benefit, I value hard work and I live in a heavenly location. It can work, but you have to work it.

[Smudge38]

A very sensible post. Too many people think boat living is a cheaper option when it is often not, its just nicer. For example I owned my last house and own my boat now. The cost of council tax and heating/lighting costs combined in my house were considerably less than combined cost of mooring/licence heating lighting etc on my boat, for me its a lifestyle choice we both vastly prefer being on the boat which is were I amtyping from now, ooops look at the time !! pub 20 yds away be rude not to

 

 

Thank You - For your Good Answer..

[Smudge38]

It depends on the type of mooring and if you have sole use of it, Than you pay council tax on, I do and

having just been re-banded from A to B under the new rules brought in by "Grabber Brown", Because I

have a waterside view I go up a band.

I live on a boat for two good reasons, 1) I hate the pain of moving house and having to settle in to a new home.

2) I get a better nights rest.

 

One last thing Darren which paper do you write for?. As I smell a reporter. Why else do you require people to reply by email instead of the forum.

 

Firesprite

 

I Wish I had good Job as a Reporter Mate! I just asked People reply via e-mail simple reason is I am not a Internet Person & its just quicker for me! No Conspiracy here....!

 

daz

[Smudge38]

A very sensible post. Too many people think boat living is a cheaper option when it is often not, its just nicer. For example I owned my last house and own my boat now. The cost of council tax and heating/lighting costs combined in my house were considerably less than combined cost of mooring/licence heating lighting etc on my boat, for me its a lifestyle choice we both vastly prefer being on the boat which is were I amtyping from now, ooops look at the time !! pub 20 yds away be rude not to

 

- Thank you for your Reply 2 Me -- Yours was very helpful than most must say.

I get the Idea now that it may not be a cheap as living on land.. Can I ask 1 Q. about what u said in your reply me.. You said Owned your own house and Own Narrowboat now. Did u sell your House 2 buy a Barge? Would u ever go back to living back in Bricks & Motor??

Barges really appealls me... but I can say now the Only worrying thing is what seems emense Costs now..

The Goverment rant' on about Not ENOUGH HOusing being Built & shortage for most people! Well, why don't they think about making Barges a easier Opition for People!? I really don't get this Business about some places have 2 Pay 'Council Tax'...on a Boat. Why! These are things that putting me off a bit about Barge/Canal living..

[mrsmelly]

- Thank you for your Reply 2 Me -- Yours was very helpful than most must say.

I get the Idea now that it may not be a cheap as living on land.. Can I ask 1 Q. about what u said in your reply me.. You said Owned your own house and Own Narrowboat now. Did u sell your House 2 buy a Barge? Would u ever go back to living back in Bricks & Motor??

Barges really appealls me... but I can say now the Only worrying thing is what seems emense Costs now..

The Goverment rant' on about Not ENOUGH HOusing being Built & shortage for most people! Well, why don't they think about making Barges a easier Opition for People!? I really don't get this Business about some places have 2 Pay 'Council Tax'...on a Boat. Why! These are things that putting me off a bit about Barge/Canal living..

 

Hi

 

The first boat we bought to live on in 89 was bought out of house proceeds. I have never borrowed for any boat. The last narrowboat I bought was also after the sale of my last house. We have been in the position on occasion of owning both a house and an older boat but found we always tended to stop on the boat more than the house, the last house we rented out for the last few years that we owned it but realised we were never again going to want to live in it again so sold it like any other bit of kit we dont use this enabled us to buy a newer boat and have both freedom and money and incidently we sold it in 2007 and it like all others is now worth less than we sold it for ( just lucky )

We hope never to have to live in a house again but life can be funny in what it deals you so never say never. As for council tax if you dont have a residential mooring then you dont pay council tax ( unless you are kinky )

[Smudge38]

Hi Darren.

 

In a house, you pay council tax.

On a boat you dont (if you're a CC-er) but you pay a BW licence which is about the same.

So far, lets say you havent won by being on a boat.

 

In a house you pay elec, water. ..about £100+

in a boat you pay gas, diesel....about £100+

So far, lets say you havent won by being on a boat.

 

In a house you may have a car, and the two may cost in tax, insurance, maintenance...lets say £500 a year?

In a boat you need to black the hull, pay insurance and fix maintenance issues. Could be in the same region, or more.

So far, lets say you havent won by being in a boat.

 

In a house you pay rent each month...lets say £500-£1000

In a boat, you may want to stay in a marina...about £250-£350 pmth (can be less)

You may have to pay a boat finance company back...lets say £400 pmth

Shall we say at this point you havent won by being on a boat. (unless you are a CC-er, and your boat was given to you...in which case you should be winning in the house/boat comparison.

 

In my mind, I win, because when I rent, the cash I pay is lost for ever, but paying for a boat is partly recoverable when I sell.

 

Hope it helps.

Some people spend thousands on their boat...shiny paint jobs, marble kitchen tops, interior decoration, etc. You may not need to do that.

 

Thank YOU for your very Helping & detail message left for me!!