moving up at locks

[Midnight Rider]

Isn't it easier for all if the new arrival takes whatever space has recently been vacated, regardless of its precise position? It is not too hard to remember whose turn is next without forming a conventional queue.

There was recently a report of a Queue of 13 boats at Atherstone Locks.

 

Might there not be a slight problem if you just bimble up the line of boats to find a place?

[Bob18]

One thing that can lead to frustration is when an excessive gap is left, and only a small number of boats in the queue. I can't be the only one who's come along, seen a couple of apparently moored boats with nobody in sight, a long gap then the couple waiting close by the lock, so you quietly joined the two by the lock, only to have some irate person come charging along shouting that you've jumped the queue, which you thought was two boats long, but is actually four.

 

The other "entertaining" one is when someone has moored a reasonable distance from a lock gone shopping/have a meal, and while going about their business has become "trapped" in the middle of an ever growing lock queue.

 

I really appreciated the family who shouted at me "We're moored" one day on the Oxford, it meant I knew they weren't in the queue so I could pass them with a cheery wave and comfortable conscience)

[haggis]

There was recently a report of a Queue of 13 boats at Atherstone Locks.

 

Might there not be a slight problem if you just bimble up the line of boats to find a place?

 

We heard that someone did just that! They arrived at the top and went past the queue saying they were going to take on water which they did, for a short time. They then seemed to expect to slot into the queue at that point instead of several boats further back where everyone else thought they should be. The other boaters successfully kept them out of the lock till their proper turn. The result was that the 2 guys on board cursed and swore all the way down the flight and only did the minimum of gate opening and closing and paddle winding. They really endeared them selves to everyone else that day.

Haggis

[Ray T]

One thing that can lead to frustration is when an excessive gap is left, and only a small number of boats in the queue. I can't be the only one who's come along, seen a couple of apparently moored boats with nobody in sight, a long gap then the couple waiting close by the lock, so you quietly joined the two by the lock, only to have some irate person come charging along shouting that you've jumped the queue, which you thought was two boats long, but is actually four.

 

The other "entertaining" one is when someone has moored a reasonable distance from a lock gone shopping/have a meal, and while going about their business has become "trapped" in the middle of an ever growing lock queue.

 

I really appreciated the family who shouted at me "We're moored" one day on the Oxford, it meant I knew they weren't in the queue so I could pass them with a cheery wave and comfortable conscience)

 

I was of the impression that one of the unwritten rules to show that you were waiting in a lock queue was to leave the tiller extension on the swan neck, no tiller extension moored up, simples.

[Timleech]

I was of the impression that one of the unwritten rules to show that you were waiting in a lock queue was to leave the tiller extension on the swan neck, no tiller extension moored up, simples.

 

That used to be the way, sadly very few people would understand it now.

Some even leave the tiller in place fro 12 months of the year!

 

Tim

[Keeping Up]

In the drought of 1976 when many of the locks were open for just 2 hours a day, the queues at places like Atherstone were up to 5 or 6 hours - which meant up to 3 days wait. One morning as we had waited our turn and were eventually next in the queue, a "London Borough of Hillingdon" narrowboat came past everybody and attempted to go straight into the lock, saying that because they were carrying a party of "underprivileged" children on a week's trip they were therefore a working narrowboat and could claim automatic precedence over everybody else. It very nearly started a riot!

[Laurie Booth]

In the drought of 1976 when many of the locks were open for just 2 hours a day, the queues at places like Atherstone were up to 5 or 6 hours - which meant up to 3 days wait. One morning as we had waited our turn and were eventually next in the queue, a "London Borough of Hillingdon" narrowboat came past everybody and attempted to go straight into the lock, saying that because they were carrying a party of "underprivileged" children on a week's trip they were therefore a working narrowboat and could claim automatic precedence over everybody else. It very nearly started a riot!

One trip boat on the K&A still does that. Also I found out that they were using my boat as a landing stage. I was moored at that time on the Somerset Coal Canal moorings.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Laurie.Booth

[mayalld]

I was of the impression that one of the unwritten rules to show that you were waiting in a lock queue was to leave the tiller extension on the swan neck, no tiller extension moored up, simples.

 

Many hire boats can't remove the tiller.

 

My rule of thumb is that if the stern rope is out, and nobody is holding it, then they are moored.

[sociable_hermit]

......and where does the oncoming crew get back on their boat?

IN THE LOCK, or on their way out, because they are leaving the gate open for you.

 

I can't believe you actually wrote that!

Edited September 8, 2011 by sociable_hermit

[Tacet]

There was recently a report of a Queue of 13 boats at Atherstone Locks.

 

Might there not be a slight problem if you just bimble up the line of boats to find a place?

 

Well, that's an exception not the rule. Anyway, 13 boats moving up 13 times sounds lot of effort.

[mayalld]

Well, that's an exception not the rule. Anyway, 13 boats moving up 13 times sounds lot of effort.

 

I've been in long queues on several occasions.

 

Cholmoldeston Lock has them regularly.

[ditchcrawler]

I was of the impression that one of the unwritten rules to show that you were waiting in a lock queue was to leave the tiller extension on the swan neck, no tiller extension moored up, simples.

I went for a month unable to get mine off, I have also seen lots of hire boats where they don't come off.

[Midnight Rider]

Well, that's an exception not the rule. Anyway, 13 boats moving up 13 times sounds lot of effort.

So, is there a maximum number of boats for your system & how would you resolve the 13 boats moving forward?

[Machpoint005]

I always thought that one of the few reasons for steering from out on the counter was to enable you to perform that bodily function whilst on the move.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that...

Edited September 8, 2011 by Machpoint005

[Darren72]

Me too, hes probably got a fifty footer and doesnt understand that a seventy footer trying to get in from the side of the lock entrance is not so easy they dont bend too easily and why does he need a bollard to tie up to ? I very rarely tie up its easier to hover and go in when the females have opened the lock gates.

 

I agree with you, but the "when the females have opened the gates" may get some comments! lol

[Tacet]

So, is there a maximum number of boats for your system & how would you resolve the 13 boats moving forward?

 

Well,I've been a regular on the canals for 40 years or so but I don't think I have come across this number of boats queuing each with access to the towpath. In the past, when there has been a lengthy queue, but I might have a word (there is plenty of time!) with the immediately adjacent boat suggesting that we leapfrog each other and halve the number of relocations.

 

I accept that long queues can occur (but most commonly when there is a "stoppage" at the lock due to some mishap), and no doubt the only absolute limit is something to do with the number of boats that might occupy the longest pound. It seems even more unlikely that there would be mooring rings or bollards to satisfy a queue of 13 or more so presumably, if everyone is to move in the strict pattern, the would need to be a lot of peg banging or patient people holding ropes for a number of hours - I doubt that 10 or more hovering boats will be practicable in most conditions.

 

In the far more common situation of two, three or even four in a queue, I can't see the problem of the arrival order being remembered rather than recorded by proximity to the lock gates. It may increase opportunities for the inconsiderate to exploit, but I can't spend too much time worrying about a generally small minority.

 

Ian

[Sunset Rising]

There is probably a 'known' or 'correct' way of doing this. i wonder if we know anyone who could get a definitive document on the matter from an indisputable source. Perhaps an insurance company for instance ???

[mayalld]

Well,I've been a regular on the canals for 40 years or so but I don't think I have come across this number of boats queuing each with access to the towpath. In the past, when there has been a lengthy queue, but I might have a word (there is plenty of time!) with the immediately adjacent boat suggesting that we leapfrog each other and halve the number of relocations.

 

I accept that long queues can occur (but most commonly when there is a "stoppage" at the lock due to some mishap), and no doubt the only absolute limit is something to do with the number of boats that might occupy the longest pound. It seems even more unlikely that there would be mooring rings or bollards to satisfy a queue of 13 or more so presumably, if everyone is to move in the strict pattern, the would need to be a lot of peg banging or patient people holding ropes for a number of hours

 

There are a number of locks where long queues are common in normal use (12 or more boats in the queue is just a busy summer day at Cholmoldeston, and because of that most people mooring up don't do on the stretches of visitor mooring closest to the lock landings, and there is space for 12 boats to wait and shuffle up).

 

A little further on at Middlewich junction, the closeness of Wardle lock and Kings lock to the junction means that boats passing between the two on the four counties route have to work out where they sit in a queue that they have just landed in the middle of. It causes no end of confusion.

 

Travel to Grindley Brook, and I've seen 20 boat queues waiting to come down.

[Tacet]

There are a number of locks where long queues are common in normal use (12 or more boats in the queue is just a busy summer day at Cholmoldeston, and because of that most people mooring up don't do on the stretches of visitor mooring closest to the lock landings, and there is space for 12 boats to wait and shuffle up).

 

A little further on at Middlewich junction, the closeness of Wardle lock and Kings lock to the junction means that boats passing between the two on the four counties route have to work out where they sit in a queue that they have just landed in the middle of. It causes no end of confusion.

 

Travel to Grindley Brook, and I've seen 20 boat queues waiting to come down.

 

Well, I have been through all of those in the summer school holidays in the last three years, and none were that bad although the options at Middlewich does make it difficult to work out who waiting tto go where.

 

Perhaps the real point is that one rule or system does not best suit all circumstances?

 

Ian

[mayalld]

Well, I have been through all of those in the summer school holidays in the last three years, and none were that bad although the options at Middlewich does make it difficult to work out who waiting tto go where.

 

Perhaps the real point is that one rule or system does not best suit all circumstances?

 

Ian

 

The real point seems to be that as a nation we understand queueing. it is an activity whose finer nuances are inculcated into us almost from birth, such that we have an inate understanding of the correct way to queue. It isn't enough that everybody exits the queue in the same order as they arrived. It is important that they understand where everybody ele is in the queue, and no foreign conceptsof queueing without such information will suffice.

 

Or perhaps the REAL point is that the list of people who want to do it differently currently amounts to.... Er, well you actually!

[Midnight Rider]

In the far more common situation of two, three or even four in a queue, I can't see the problem of the arrival order being remembered rather than recorded by proximity to the lock gates. It may increase opportunities for the inconsiderate to exploit, but I can't spend too much time worrying about a generally small minority.

Well, give it a go Ian & let us know how you get on.

[Tacet]

The real point seems to be that as a nation we understand queueing. it is an activity whose finer nuances are inculcated into us almost from birth, such that we have an inate understanding of the correct way to queue. It isn't enough that everybody exits the queue in the same order as they arrived. It is important that they understand where everybody ele is in the queue, and no foreign conceptsof queueing without such information will suffice.

 

Or perhaps the REAL point is that the list of people who want to do it differently currently amounts to.... Er, well you actually!

 

No need to make this personal, Dave, I was merely responding to the question raised by the OP with a possible reason. Your point about queuing being a national pastime rings true - but before the advent of booked appointments at the Doctor's surgery (itself not a queue of the type under discussion), the arrangement was to take your turn according to your arrival; no-one shuffled up a seat towards the inner-sanctum each time a vacancy occurred, nor so far as I can recall were there any disputes.

[mayalld]

No need to make this personal, Dave, I was merely responding to the question raised by the OP with a possible reason. Your point about queuing being a national pastime rings true - but before the advent of booked appointments at the Doctor's surgery (itself not a queue of the type under discussion), the arrangement was to take your turn according to your arrival; no-one shuffled up a seat towards the inner-sanctum each time a vacancy occurred, nor so far as I can recall were there any disputes.

 

I'm not making it personal, simply pointing out that nobody else seems to see it as an issue.

 

I am fortunate to have a GP that still runs an open surgery without appointment, and you are correct to say that shuffling up isn't practiced. It isn't practiced there because there is an alternative system which involves you being given a token (it is actually a piece of coloured flexible plastic with a number on it). When you go in to the doctor, you hang your token up on a hook provided for the purpose, and everybody can see where they are in the process. My previous GP used cloakroom tickets, and I know that hospital and some supermarket counters use number dispensers with an illuminated sign showing who is next to be served.

 

The only places where a system of working out who is next is used are;

• The pub
• The barber

In one of those places it works OK.

 

 

 

 

[Midnight Rider]

My previous GP used cloakroom tickets, and I know that hospital and some supermarket counters use number dispensers with an illuminated sign showing who is next to be served.

That's it then --- a supermarket deli system at all the busy locks.

 

Someone told me that the IWA has some sort of ticketing system for the locks each side of the recent festival for leaving boats --- don't know how that worked.

[Tacet]

That's it then --- a supermarket deli system at all the busy locks.

 

Someone told me that the IWA has some sort of ticketing system for the locks each side of the recent festival for leaving boats --- don't know how that worked.

 

Not a bad idea but it will not please everyone. It is, apparently, not enough to know where one is in the queue - it is also necessary to know where everyone else lies.