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Scrap metal


smudge837

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I would like to ask a hypothetical question if I may.

 

I am looking at moving onto the network next year. I will have a fixed income which I believe I can live off, without to much hardship.

 

I was just thinking that maybe a half open 40-50 foot butty that could be dragged / towed behind the main liveaboard, this would be used as a store for my fire wood / motorbike and the like.

If I moved around for a year pulling out shopping trolleys and other metal bits from the cut, then maybe I could weight them in for scrap as extra beer money.

 

Just wondering if anyone would know the legal side of ownership of said trolley, as I would be doing BW a favour would I be within legal rights to scrap offending trolley and other bits?

 

In my jack d addled brain it seems like a win win, but I am pretty sure it will all fall flat.

 

Cheer and have fun all

Smudge

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I would like to ask a hypothetical question if I may.

 

I am looking at moving onto the network next year. I will have a fixed income which I believe I can live off, without to much hardship.

 

I was just thinking that maybe a half open 40-50 foot butty that could be dragged / towed behind the main liveaboard, this would be used as a store for my fire wood / motorbike and the like.

If I moved around for a year pulling out shopping trolleys and other metal bits from the cut, then maybe I could weight them in for scrap as extra beer money.

 

Just wondering if anyone would know the legal side of ownership of said trolley, as I would be doing BW a favour would I be within legal rights to scrap offending trolley and other bits?

 

In my jack d addled brain it seems like a win win, but I am pretty sure it will all fall flat.

 

Cheer and have fun all

Smudge

 

You would be guilty of theft, as the trolley still belongs to the store that it was taken from.

 

You may find that some supermarkets will pay you a pound a time for returning them (because they are atually responsible for removing dumped trolleys), but if you start selling them for scrap, you will very likely find yourself in court.

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Would you not have salvage rights as one might for recovering a shopping trolley lost at sea? :D

 

Under UK law, both flotsam and jetsam, (goods washed and thrown overboard respectively), remain the legal property of the original owner. (Remember the ship’s cargo which was washed up on a beach)

so as been said the trolleys or any other scrap, still belong to the owner, I suppose you will have to come to an agreement with them first, unless it’s a hazard to navigation then bw and its agents have the responsibility to remove it, if the owner for what ever reason fails to do so.

 

Hope this helps

Edited by davidc
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You would be guilty of theft, as the trolley still belongs to the store that it was taken from.

 

You may find that some supermarkets will pay you a pound a time for returning them (because they are atually responsible for removing dumped trolleys), but if you start selling them for scrap, you will very likely find yourself in court.

You would also be breaking part of British Waterways bye-law number 41

 

41. Prohibition of bathing, taking water etc.

 

No person unless authorised by the Board in that behalf or

otherwise legally entitled so to do shall:

{a} Bathe in any canal

{b} Take any water from any canal (being an inland water to

which section 131 of the Water Resources Act 1963, for the time

being applies

{c} Connect any pipe, culvert or drain to any canal or permit any

pipe, culvert or drain to discharge on to any property of the

Board.

{d} Dredge or remove coal or other material from any canal.

Edited by alan_fincher
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you would also require a Waste Carriers Licence which currently cost in the region of £300 per 3 year period, a fine of £1,000 can be imposed if caught with scrap without one, make sure you get the 2nd tier type as they both cost the same but the lower tier only allows you to transport your own waste.

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41. Prohibition of bathing, taking water etc.

{b} Take any water from any canal (being an inland water to

which section 131 of the Water Resources Act 1963, for the time

being applies.

Oops - no more watering of the flowers on the mooring then.:lol:

Edited by koukouvagia
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Oops - no more watering of the flowers on the mooring then.:lol:

Yes,

 

It seems I am also law breaking when I pull mud ridden builders trolleys out, and wheel them back to Wickes.

 

The Starbucks, (or was it Costa Coffee?), who got their very large parasol returned to them in Hertford seemed well less than impressed too!

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Like the Great Mattress of Tame

 

Richard

 

:lol: - indeed.

 

a little ditty - last week while going into Anchor lock on the LL I spotted a brolley suddenly float up to the surface just behind the boat. Jan slid the boat into neutral to minimise the risk of it fouling the prop and I grabbed the boat hook to see if I could fish it out.

 

Locky enquired what I was up to, I explained - after about 15 minutes when I still hadn't mentioned to locate it and grapple it out he said 'reverse your boat your boat up to it it's about here' he said pointing 'er no thanks' I said I'll suck it onto my prop for sure, 'Well' he said it'll have to foul somebodies', 'perhaps, but it aint' fouling mine thank-you very much' and motioned to give up...'er you can't just leave it' he said 'er I can I'm afraid, I've tried to locate it but it's obviously floated off under the water' - 'which part of your boat did it come off' - 'it didn't I said it was in the water all along' - 'ah he said sorry yes not your responsibility after all...' and wandered off muttering about getting his kebb....

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you would also require a Waste Carriers Licence which currently cost in the region of £300 per 3 year period, a fine of £1,000 can be imposed if caught with scrap without one, make sure you get the 2nd tier type as they both cost the same but the lower tier only allows you to transport your own waste.

 

Does that mean that electricians, plumbers, builders etc have to have the licence if they are on the way to the scrap yard for a wiegh in? I would suggest there are not many, if any, who have such a licence.

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Hi again all. Many thanks for the replies, it was just myself and jack thinking how we could clean up the waterway and maybe make a few quid as well. Not really trying to make a wage, but it would be nice to have a bit of purpose and a reason to keep moving round the system finding more bits n bats.

 

I will try and answer some of the points. Sorry if they are notin the right order.

 

 

You would have to pay extra licence for the butty. Also a traders licence and all the insurance that goes with it. 

 

No drama there, I think I could get the value out of it as my mobile shed / bike park / wood store. So wouldn't mind the licence fee and insurance.

 

 

you would also require a Waste Carriers Licence which currently cost in the region of £300 per 3 year period.

 

 

I think it would make at least £1oo a year so would even itself out. But thank you for the info a good solid bit I can store away for later.

 

 

' You would also be breaking part of British Waterways bye-law number 41

Quote

41.Prohibition of bathing, taking water etc.

 

No person unless authorised by the Board in that behalf or

otherwise legally entitled so to do shall:

{a} Bathe in any canal

{b} Take any water from any canal (being an inland water to

which section 131 of the Water Resources Act 1963, for the time

being applies

{c} Connect any pipe, culvert or drain to any canal or permit any

pipe, culvert or drain to discharge on to any property of the

Board.

{d} Dredge or remove coal or other material from any canal.

42.

 

I think that is the one that sinks the whole plan. Mmm unless I could get BW to sign upto it as well. Run it like a charity business type thing. I take the waste they get cleaner canals, with no charge to them.

 

 

On a practical note - how would one deliver the scrap from the canal to the scrapyard? Hiring a truck with a grab could well be more expensive than the value of the scrap.

 

 

This would take some research. Though I am sure there must be at least on scrappie that boarders the network, failing that I would look at doing a deal with a rag n bone type guy with a van.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to reply to this little pipe dream. :cheers:

 

Cheers all

 

Smudge

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Does that mean that electricians, plumbers, builders etc have to have the licence if they are on the way to the scrap yard for a wiegh in? I would suggest there are not many, if any, who have such a licence.

 

correct on both counts, we have because we were directly approached by the local authority about it, and rather than wait to be caught at the weigh in had to buy one (we go at least 20 times a year)

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correct on both counts, we have because we were directly approached by the local authority about it, and rather than wait to be caught at the weigh in had to buy one (we go at least 20 times a year)

 

 

 

 

I mentioned in an earlier post, it's surprising how many people require one. Basically any waste to do with your business carried on a vehicle.

 

 

you would also require a Waste Carriers Licence which currently cost in the region of £300 per 3 year period.

 

 

They cost £156 from the Environment Agency, they last for 3 years and can be obtained from

Phoenix House in Beeston, Leeds 11. You will receive help to fill in the simple form to register as

a waste carrier.

 

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You missed the minor issue that regardless of BW buy in it would be theft

 

Hi again all. Many thanks for the replies, it was just myself and jack thinking how we could clean up the waterway and maybe make a few quid as well. Not really trying to make a wage, but it would be nice to have a bit of purpose and a reason to keep moving round the system finding more bits n bats.

 

I will try and answer some of the points. Sorry if they are notin the right order.

 

 

You would have to pay extra licence for the butty. Also a traders licence and all the insurance that goes with it. 

 

No drama there, I think I could get the value out of it as my mobile shed / bike park / wood store. So wouldn't mind the licence fee and insurance.

 

 

you would also require a Waste Carriers Licence which currently cost in the region of £300 per 3 year period.

 

 

I think it would make at least £1oo a year so would even itself out. But thank you for the info a good solid bit I can store away for later.

 

 

' You would also be breaking part of British Waterways bye-law number 41

Quote

41.Prohibition of bathing, taking water etc.

 

No person unless authorised by the Board in that behalf or

otherwise legally entitled so to do shall:

{a} Bathe in any canal

{b} Take any water from any canal (being an inland water to

which section 131 of the Water Resources Act 1963, for the time

being applies

{c} Connect any pipe, culvert or drain to any canal or permit any

pipe, culvert or drain to discharge on to any property of the

Board.

{d} Dredge or remove coal or other material from any canal.

42.

 

I think that is the one that sinks the whole plan. Mmm unless I could get BW to sign upto it as well. Run it like a charity business type thing. I take the waste they get cleaner canals, with no charge to them.

 

 

On a practical note - how would one deliver the scrap from the canal to the scrapyard? Hiring a truck with a grab could well be more expensive than the value of the scrap.

 

 

This would take some research. Though I am sure there must be at least on scrappie that boarders the network, failing that I would look at doing a deal with a rag n bone type guy with a van.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to reply to this little pipe dream. :cheers:

 

Cheers all

 

Smudge

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I didn't miss the issue of theft. I just chose not to elaborate at the time,how I will settle that point in my head.

 

There are no doubt a lot of things I have done that, are/ were/ have been/ still are illegal over my time and a lot will depend who is sitting in the chair when it is my time to weight in so to speak.

 

I am not talking large scale theft of metals, more a sanctioned clean up. Just as it would be should I be a volunteer group who is recycling the waste to fund future clean up schemes. I do not doubt the letter of the law stating that ownership still resides with the initial owner, but I would like to think this is more to do with preventing dumping rather than cleaning up.

 

Cheers :cheers:

 

Smudge

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You would also be breaking part of British Waterways bye-law number 41

 

Without looking up the exact wording, I recall that the other half of this says you must not throw or allow to fall any object into the canal.

 

It would seem that it is therefore illegal to fall into the canal, but having done so it compounds the offence to have someone help you out again. :glare:

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