The sate of our waterways infrastructre...

[steelaway]

Because it's being mismanaged/// Perhaps?

 

Martyn

 

 

 

Well the I'm not so sure.

 

Prime Minister wage is £142,500pa - BW director receives £233,000. For that kind of money he must be brilliant at management

 

See this months Towpath Talk http://www.mpldigital.com/mortons-media/towpath-talk

 

Alex

Edited August 23, 2011 by steelaway

[CV32]

Find some new management that want the system to be better and will work for less than the PM repair things properly (as stated earlier, use decent quality materials) and centralise all admin - efficiency's are achieved by properly managed computer systems - get rid of the old fashioned tea party ways and wake up to the 21st century. get more people out repairing, not in the office pushing paper around and losing your boat safety certificate in a filing cabinet somewhere !

 

Sounds radical ? probably is to the majority of you reading this but in the private sector sometimes companies have to do these things to survive.

 

BW cannot become a charity and be allowed to continue in its zombie walk into ruin. I for one do not want to witness that.

[Nightwatch]

Someone on my wave length.

 

You have a greenie.

 

Martyn (Good night, by the way)

Edited August 23, 2011 by Nightwatch

[Tiny]

BW or whoever they are will do as they fancy no matter what we say. in the 1970s it was often difficult to get to the bank in some area BUT if you saw a cyclist he was a hero to be on that towpath. Now you can get to the bank and get flattened by a flying lycra lout. Take your choice.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Lady Muck
mistakenly edited apols

[Minos]

A government agency is first and foremost a bureaucracy which generates paperwork to prove that it is doing its job.

 

A charity cannot afford that luxury. It has to actually do its job.

 

And a significant part of that job will be raising the funds to pay for itself and blagging the manpower (i.e. volunteers) to get jobs done. This points to an obvious conclusion: we will end up with the waterways infrastructure we deserve, because we will be the ones raising the funds, volunteering to do the work and inspecting the system to choose what jobs need doing next.

 

Anyway, regardless of any improvements that appear in the future, the change itself will inevitably cause a deterioration of the service because that's what change always does.

[Timleech]

BW or whoever they are will do as they fancy no matter what we say. in the 1970s it was often difficult to get to the bank in some area BUT if you saw a cyclist he was a hero to be on that towpath. Now you can get to the bank and get flattened by a flying lycra lout. Take your choice.

 

There has been a marked deterioration in maintenance effort and standards around here in the last few (5 or 7, maybe even 10) years, which I find seriously worrying.

And yes, I was boating in the 1960's there were definite improvements after that.

 

Tim

[DeanS]

As a new boater who only started cruising this year, my experience has been the following:

 

1. Every lock has worked (with some effort) that we have come across.

2. The only blocked elsan points have been at Leeds and Castlefield. (both areas you would think would get priority)

3. The dirtiest canals with the most litter has been around Manchester by far. (bottom of the Rochdale)

4. Swing bridge failed....North East...BW were in the area within minutes.

5. Dont call BW if you're stuck on a sandbank in a river....with kids...at 5pm. It's not their problem.

6. I think volunteers will be more cheerful than some of the staff we've encountered.

7. Im amazed a BW staff member has to travel, by bicycle, to the top of the Pennines to let 1 boat over the top.

8. The Sowerby Bridge Tuel lock - keeper is a great guy.

9. I always pass BW barges that aren't being used....just tied up with old trees/sand/rubble still on them.

10.The Doncaster BW office, is now deserted completely.

11.The Leeds BW office has been manned by temp staff on 2 occassions.

12.Castleford has an abundance of BW staff in vans.

13.There is ample visitor moorings, elsan points, and water points in most areas we've been.

14.A licence fee of about £2.50 per day for my 57ft boat, doesn't seem extortionate.

15.The water quality in canals seems very poor...dead fish, murky.

16.Most towns which advertise a canal "waterfront" are lying...there is often nothing on their "waterfront" besides businesses, or half renovated housing. Even the Sheffield Victoria Quays basin is now designated for businesses, since the city hasn't seen it's social opportunities. Leeds basin is dead most of the time...

17. We had a bicycle stolen off the boat in Manchester, and my car window smashed in Sheffield.

18. The best part of being a boater has been the ability to move on to new experiences on and off the water, and watching other boaters along the way. We've enjoyed how many canals come into the centre of cities/towns, and we've gotten used to using public transport whenever neccessary.

19. I have never yet seen a BW uniforumed person checking on boats overstaying, in the past 5 months. Not a single one.

20. The lock outside LemonRoyd broke, and they fixed it sharpish.

 

Overall I think they are doing a decent job. I wouldn't be saying that if locks we're bust, pounds were empty, towpaths were dirty etc.

 

Just my view so far...

[churchward]

I'm sorry I don't accept the 'we should be grateful for what we get now cos it was really crap years ago argument'

 

I pay bloody good money to boat on this system and expect a half decent level of service in return...just some evidence of prioritisation would be a start.

I expect they would say they have prioritised. It's just they didn't prioritise the things you spotted were wrong.

 

J R sorry, I don't agree.

 

If I pay money for a service I expect the right to make a comment about the level of service I receive.

 

ed to add an I

I agree we all have a perfect right to complain. I also think it is unrealistic to think that the system can be perfect all the time given the resources available.

 

The 'compression' point is perhaps a very valid one..I hadn't considered that

One can also think about it in the reverse direction. it was a smaller system then and it had problems everywhere. if that was scaled up to todays network we would still have problems every where. Believe me the 1970s were much worse than now.

 

I also think it is not much use comparing the past with the present in this case and doesn't get us very far. then is then now is now.

 

As a boater I can think of ways they could change how they spend their money. However, Anglers, cyclists and walkers etc won't like it.

[Lady Muck]

BW or whoever they are will do as they fancy no matter what we say. in the 1970s it was often difficult to get to the bank in some area BUT if you saw a cyclist he was a hero to be on that towpath. Now you can get to the bank and get flattened by a flying lycra lout. Take your choice.

 

I'll go for the latter, thanks - as a female boater who has a long walk from the nearest bus stop, I rely on my bike to get me home safely on winter evenings.

 

The cyclists in London really don't bother me. Seriously they don't. Anyway Sustrans paid for our towpath and their volunteers even remove any flytipping we get up here. If you want this new charity to be able to raise money, you can't have the canals for yourself.

[Andy Todd]

J R sorry, I don't agree.

 

If I pay money for a service I expect the right to make a comment about the level of service I receive.

 

ed to add an I

 

Except as boaters we do not pay for the full cost of the service that is provisioned.

 

If the service received is less than you are looking for then you need to start arguing that the level of spend on the network should be increased. Worth noting that in the current economic environment almost certainly the only place for that funding to come from is boating licence fees.

[Guest]

Except as boaters we do not pay for the full cost of the service that is provisioned.

 

If the service received is less than you are looking for then you need to start arguing that the level of spend on the network should be increased. Worth noting that in the current economic environment almost certainly the only place for that funding to come from is boating licence fees.

IIRC boat licenses used to pay about 1/3 of the upkeep? I doubt that figure would hold true today,but haven't seen a breakdown in recent times.

 

It really is a catch 22 situation, but we need to get used to it. There is no magic "They" with a pot of money; we will have to get our hands in our pockets. Since the capitalists have spent the rent on risky loans, wars that we can ill afford etc, there will be no funding available for our waterways.

 

I'll go for the latter, thanks - as a female boater who has a long walk from the nearest bus stop, I rely on my bike to get me home safely on winter evenings.

 

The cyclists in London really don't bother me. Seriously they don't. Anyway Sustrans paid for our towpath and their volunteers even remove any flytipping we get up here. If you want this new charity to be able to raise money, you can't have the canals for yourself.

 

An extremely good point, and one we will have to get used to.

 

I have been painting our boat on the L&L these past few weeks and have been amazed at the number of walkers/cyclists/fishermen etc now using the canals. It really has multiplied in the last ten years. I might add I have seen very few boats...

[TimD]

Prime Minister wage is £142,500pa - BW director receives £233,000. For that kind of money he must be brilliant at management

 

Alex

 

The prime minister gets to live in one of the best houses, in the most expensive part of london. And many of the costs that other high end professionals have to incurr are just provided and put down as government costs. He/she also gets a huge amount of "free marketing" which can be turned into very lucrative lectures/books and directorships when they leave office. I'm not saying that I like the 233K, but I bet once you have factored in the perks and extra future income the prime minister's figure is bigger.

[Guest]

 

I have been painting our boat on the L&L these past few weeks and have been amazed at the number of walkers/cyclists/fishermen etc now using the canals. It really has multiplied in the last ten years. I might add I have seen very few boats...

 

So true,

 

Rodley was a veritable hornets nest of walkers - cyclists, we moored there 24 hours and saw no more than 2 boats moving in the whole time.

[Minos]

As a new boater who only started cruising this year, my experience has been the following:

 

(content deleted to save space...)

 

Just my view so far...

My experience has been pretty similar.

1. The worst lock I have come across is Fall Ing Lock. Only one bottom paddle worked, and the only way to open the gate was by a 6'5" 16 stone man (me) putting both feet on the bridge and shoulder against the beam and heaving for five minutes. But it still worked.

2. I actually laughed out loud when other boaters on the Marsworth Flight complained about the state of those locks. They hardly leaked, and my eight-year-old raised & lowered the paddles and opened & closed the gates without help.

3. The only Elsan point I have found out of order was at Stanley Ferry

4. All the BW staff I have met have been doing their jobs, but none have had anything positive to say about BW management.

5. While the canal water has looked grim, it's obviously healthy enough to support 14 inch carp and turtles (or are they terrapins?)

6. Rivers. Rivers are awesome. Rivers are better than anything else.

7. I have seen ticketed boats in the centre of York and London. Nowhere else.

[Higgs]

I've had a few rants on a few other posts and I get tired of listening to myself. Equally, I get tired of the feeling that the canals really don't figure very highly at government level.

 

I can see how volunteers may be able to help but what about the heavy engineering that goes into the maintenance. You can't do anything these days without health and safety certs.

 

I've spent many happy hours on the canal and have worked in a boatyard for ten years. Wish I'd have come to boating sooner. I want to stick with it and hope the canals will not be allowed to deteriorate.

 

I wouldn't mind doing something at local level but it will still need co-ordinating.

[sociable_hermit]

It's funny how people use the same facts to back both sides of an argument.

 

I don't think that cutting the pay of the BW exec would, in the short term, make the blindest bit of difference to the state of the canal network. However given that there are obviously some budgetary problems, paying out large sums to select groups of people who don't seem to deserve them is clearly rubbing salt in the wounds of those who contribute, which given that BW is primarily funded through taxation, means pretty much all of us.

 

Anything which reminds BW's leaders that they have a job to do is a good thing, if it removes some of the complacency and forces them to be truly accountable to canal users and taxpayers. A bit of humility would send out the right message to BW's staff, making them more productive and open to change, and to canal users, making them more likely to volunteer.

 

BW shouldn't be blamed for this year's water shortages. However they should be held accountable for any actions or failings which have exacerbated them unnecessarily, particularly if they do want to try justifying the bonuses we're all paying for. This is a short term situation but it will have longer term repercussions in terms of stakeholder goodwill and involvement, and corporate accountability and sustainability. The new regime relies heavily on "buy in" and at the moment the wrong message is being sent out. That needs to change, and it starts with the attitude at the top.

[Higgs]

I never feel happy when in-house policy is not the main policy. It hasn't helped the NHS, in some very important areas, ie, the maitenance of cleaning standards, for one. There's always a cut of the budget going out to meet profits; likewise, where shareholders are paid their' dividends.

 

There may have been lots of problems with nationalised industries, but everyone had a vested interest in these industries. So much for Maggie Thatcher's claim, that privatisation would encourage competition and prices would be kept in check. Rampant privatisation hasn't been healthy for this country, at all.

 

I have absolutely no fear of being proved wrong in believing: £40,000,000,000 +, on a fast-line railtrack will, in the short term, provide jobs; and the long will cost everyone a packet and rising expenses to maintain it. What we have doesn't work properly and is a dogs dinner. Most of my family worked for The Carriage and Wagon, in Derby. Now look at it. The policies of the last 30 yrs have taken to pieces pretty much everything. Short-term gains, long-term pains.

 

I would like to see the canal system a people focused system.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Higgs