Chance and Hunt Tugs

[andywatson]

The Walkers built tug Stentor is shown in Colours of the Cut as being blue with grained cabin framing.

However she appears in Walkers of Rickmansworth entirely blue.

Both of the above illustrations are by Edward Paget-Tomlinson.

 

On most of the old photos in many books she also appears all blue.

Can anyone explain the basis of the illustration of the former colour scheme?

 

As an aside, I have recently been contacted by a chap who's wife's sister was born on Stentor in her later years as a privately owned boat.

 

 

Does anyone know what happened to Hector in her later years after service with C&H and when she was broken up?

[pete harrison]

The Walkers built tug Stentor is shown in Colours of the Cut as being blue with grained cabin framing.

However she appears in Walkers of Rickmansworth entirely blue.

Both of the above illustrations are by Edward Paget-Tomlinson.

 

On most of the old photos in many books she also appears all blue.

Can anyone explain the basis of the illustration of the former colour scheme?

 

 

Colours of the Cut first appeared as a series in Waterways World magazine, usually with a couple of liveries reproduced within the back page of each issue between November 1987 and June 1994. It was reproduced in book form shortly after Edward Paget-Tomlinson's death.

 

I am unable to say for sure whether the Chance and Hunt tugs HECTOR and STENTOR had grained borders painted on their cabin sides, but I do find it difficult to believe. A good photograph of HECTOR appears on page 76 of Walkers' of Ricky and an equally good photograph of STENTOR appears on the following page. Both boats look to have plain painted cabins to me, but I am happy to be corrected. Mr Paget-Tomlinson's interpretation of STENTOR with grained borders first appeared in Waterways World October 1990.

 

During the Waterways World series Mr Paget-Tomlinson often mentioned that these liveries were based upon other peoples memories, and sometimes an interpretation of greyscale. Clearly this means that there were a few mistakes, and Mr Paget-Tomlinson accepted this at the time. I was disapointed that this series was reproduced in book form as these mistakes were perpetuated once again but without the opportunity for Mr Paget-Tomlinson to defend his work.

 

An opportunity to correct one of Mr Paget-Tomlinson's illustrations was lost when Colours of the Cut was reproduced in book form, this being the G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. livery first published in February 1988. This edition of Waterways World featured MEROPE in the two tone blue livery that is correct, and then NEBULAE in the red, white and blue livery but with the company address ("20, Bucklersbury, London. E.C.4.") belonging to the previous two tone blue livery. Mr Paget-Tomlinson was informed of this error at the time and accepted his mistake which was based on how enthusiasts / museums were painting boats at that time (the only correct company address for the red, white and blue livery is "Port of London Building. E.C.3."). I asked the person (via a third party) who was preparing the book if a note of this mistake could be made at the bottom of the page in an attempt to stop boat owners lettering their boats incorrectly, but to no avail.

 

My honest view is that Colours of the Cut is interesting and in most cases accurate, but there are a few known errors.

[Derek R.]

I think the answer may be conjecture only. Creating complexity of decoration on a full length cabin would almost certainly lead to a simplification on repaint, hence all blue.

 

Can't help with their fates, though Tom Chaplin is seen on the counter of his boat STENTOR on the back of his 'The Narrow Boat Book', but looks a different boat altogether.

[Laurence Hogg]

I think the answer may be conjecture only. Creating complexity of decoration on a full length cabin would almost certainly lead to a simplification on repaint, hence all blue.

 

Can't help with their fates, though Tom Chaplin is seen on the counter of his boat STENTOR on the back of his 'The Narrow Boat Book', but looks a different boat altogether.

 

"Stentor" was used by Harrison Chaplin in their riparian ownership days. I believe Tom Chaplin used parts from the original "Stentor" to build into a new steel "Stentor".

My own understanding of the livery was it was all blue, but I know of no colour photos and interpreting greyscale is a very dangerous practice known in the trade as the "concrete grass" effect (ie concrete and grass give the same results).

[Athy]

Blue? The boat depicted in Colours Of The Cut looked purple to me, which is why we had 'Trojan' painted in an approximation of the livery shown by E. P-T. I did contact Chance & Hunt (who still exist, though not of course as canal carriers) at the time, circa 2006; they were helpful and sent me a photo of one of the tugs, but as it was black & white it was inconclusive!

[andywatson]

I'm also inclined to think plain blue was most likely based on the pictures in WoR and elsewhere but I was prepared to be corrected and didn't want to introduce any bias into my original question.

Furthermore Martin O'Keefe, who wrote the interesting tug article on the BCNS website, has a painting by EPT showing Stentor in plain blue.

 

I have seen a photo of Stentor at Spencer Abbott's yard in ICI colours at the end of her industrial career with her engine room cladding removed and cabin extension forward in progress to convert her for pleasure use.

 

I take it that so far the fate of Hector has not yet been recalled.

 

 

Thanks for all your comments so far.

[pete harrison]

 

I have seen a photo of Stentor at Spencer Abbott's yard in ICI colours at the end of her industrial career with her engine room cladding removed and cabin extension forward in progress to convert her for pleasure use.

 

 

Published in Waterways World magazine December 2007 page 94.

[Andrew Darby]

Hi

 

I was born in 1960 on a converted narrow boat tug called Stentor moored on the River Wey Navigation at New Haw, just where the M25 now crosses. Stentor was my parents' first home 1959-61. I have just watched Golden Age of Canals with my Mum and we both sat up with a start when we saw the name Stentor as she was having her paintwork touched up at the Market Harborough rally. Unfortunately in black and white. The few photos I have seen of Mum and Dad's have been black and white as well. Is this the same Stentor? Were canal boats governed by naming conventions and registration/licensing requirements? I'm interested in any other news of Stentor and will be searching out the books and magazines mentioned in this thread for the family archive.

[carlt]

You can start by getting hold of "Walkers of Ricky" by Anthony J. Walker.

 

There is a nice description of the process of ordering, building, repairs and maintenance, in 1955 and inspection in 1961, at Addleston, for the then owner, Averil J. van Hooydonk. Unfortunately the tug was found to be beyond economic repair and was broken up.

 

Edited to add: I should have read the posts preceding yours, of course.

Edited November 11, 2011 by carlt

[Athy]

Andrew, if you look at my avatar you'll see an approximation of the Chance and Hunt livery, as we had Trojan apinted in their colours.

[Laurence Hogg]

These pictures are of the tugs as as built. there is clearly no graining or much decoration but one of the shots reveals a pattern on the front bulkhead divided by a line indicating two colours.

 

 

 

note the fore end design is different and the two colours on front bulkhead.

 

On test at Batchworth Lake.

 

I think its fair to say that the livery is an overall colour, there is certainly no graining on the cabin sides.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[andywatson]

Some time ago Dave Harris lent me a video including shots of Stentor on the Macclesfield Canal and a large wide river. This was after conversion to a pleasure boat.

I'll try to borrow it again for another look or at least get details of the video/DVD.

[hecla777]

The specification prepared by Pollacks for Walkers for the construction of Stentor says that it should be painted & lettered "as in Hector", but gives no details as to the colours.

 

Pollocks records that survive are held at the National Maritime Museum Greenwich but are mostly from a later period than when the Hector and Stentor were built. It may be that more might be found there but I understood that they had not been sorted when I inquired some years ago.

 

Looking again at the picture that Laurence kindly posted of Stentor there appears to be a painted dividing line on the steel sheet and engine room doors to match the wood paneling.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Martin O'Keeffe

[The Pipe]

[On test at Batchworth Lake.

 

And "Doe" just shows what a forecabin should look like.

[pete harrison]

And "Doe" just shows what a forecabin should look like.

 

The problem with so many fore cabins nowadays is that they are built in addition to a fore deck instead of in place of a fore deck. This tends to make the proportions all wrong. Having said that Thomas Clayton (Oldbury) Ltd. did have some horse boats where the fore cabin was built in addition to a fore deck, i.e. the fore cabin is in the hold - but these appear to be an exception and fairly uncommon.

 

I assume fore cabins are fitted to modern boats in order to store tall gas bottles whilst maintaining drainage holes a suitable height above water level.

 

edit - When the photograph was taken DOE was owned by the British Portland Cement Manufacturers Ltd., Harefield, but had been built for Coles Shadbolt & Co., Harefield in 1902. DOE was fitted with its fore cabin in 1914.

Edited November 12, 2011 by pete harrison

[Laurence Hogg]

Looking again at the picture that Laurence kindly posted of Stentor there appears to be a painted dividing line on the steel sheet and engine room doors to match the wood paneling.

 

 

To enter onto dangerous ground here.

The interpretation of grayscale to colours. This is virtually impossible to do even if you know for definate one colour and its position. In the trade its known as finding "concrete grass" as both can give a similar read out. Awful errors have been put into print using this flawed method so beware of any claims that it works.

 

On the originals I have analysed the tone either side of the visible line on the engine room doors, whilst the line reads out differently, either side of it does not indicating the tones are very similar. This may be evidence of a single colour lined out livery. On the front bulk head there are definatly two different tones either side of the lining.

I would not commit to any colour from these but I do remember being told that Chances boats were a dark blue.

[Timleech]

These pictures are of the tugs as as built. there is clearly no graining or much decoration but one of the shots reveals a pattern on the front bulkhead divided by a line indicating two colours.

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting they have what seem to be either stoneware or sheet metal jugs or cans rather than the water cans we now regard as de rigeur, one at either end (one with the mop resting on it), possibly painted to match the funnel colours.

 

Tim

[The Pipe]

I notice stentor has cowl vents with no rope/branch hoops over them.

[Andrew Darby]

Mum (and I) thrilled with all this information and the photos. When they bought Stentor the only loose equipment was a metal water can with the Stentor name on, painted in the roses and castles style. presumably a later aquisition. Stentor's engine was unservicesble so they never had the pleasure of exploring further than day trips in the folding canvas canoe that was Stentor's tender. I was put in a carry cot in the front. "Tiny" Harris was the New Haw lock keeper, naval bearing and well over 6' tall of course. Best wishes and thanks. Andrew and Mary Darby.

[The Pipe]

Notice that this is one of the few tugs with port holes and the high position compared to todays idea of central in the panel and evenly spaced

[The Pipe]

Interestingly I cannot see any vertical plank lines in the cabin or horizontal ones in the hull, oh. they might be plywood...............

[MarkyP]

Veering off topic, another of Doe

 

[Derek R.]

Wot - no Chinese restaurant?

[MarkyP]

Back on topic, and if not already in the collection Andrew / Mary, another reason to purchase the Walkers of Ricky book...

 

Edited November 15, 2011 by MarkyP

[Chertsey]

Some time ago Dave Harris lent me a video including shots of Stentor on the Macclesfield Canal and a large wide river. This was after conversion to a pleasure boat.

I'll try to borrow it again for another look or at least get details of the video/DVD.

Is it 'By Canal in the '50s', made by Videoactive?

I was watching this last night and there is a lot of colour footage of Stentor as a pleasure boat, in the early fifties. It's based on film shot by Ralph Lee, with a commentary added and comments from assembled waterways worthies, including David Blagrove and Ron Withey and was produced to celebrate IWA's 60th anniversary, so is probably available from them.