Can anyone identify this ice breaker?

[pete harrison]

Can Pete tell us when built and the dimensions, and if that cabin might be original.

 

I have OXFORD No. 1 built in 1943 as 40'0'' x 7'0'', powered by a Lister JP3 with the engine serial number dated as 1942 (engine in boat @ 1961).

 

I have OXFORD No. 2 built in 1944 as 40'8'' x 5'11'', powered by a Lister JP3 with the engine serial number dated as 1943 (engine in boat @ 1961).

 

Both of these ice boat / tugs were built under a Ministry of War Transport order (as were the Harris built B.C.N. tugs).

[Derek R.]

Thank you both. Looks like PACIFIC alongside, Matty had that too. 'Old Glory' did a piece on PACIFIC showing both in the basin at Callaghan's scrapyard, not as credited to Matty's Yard in the magazine (Blossom).

 

5'11" - that would be a squeeze!

[pete harrison]

 

5'11" - that would be a squeeze!

 

and not 'a million miles away' from the 6'3'' quoted on Jim Shead's website.

[wooden_will]

Evening all. Delighted to see this discussion.

 

My folks and 2 other families had 1/3rd shares in Redcap from about 1969 to 1988 (maybe a little later). If I have the dates wrong I'll receive a verbal cuffing from Mum, but I think that's fairly close. She was kept at Grove Lock on the Grand Union during the years of our ownership, and I certainly spent many a happy hour wrapped around that lovely wrought rope cleat on the bows as a kid. I will dig out some period photos and get them up here in the near future, I also know that we've got one of Stoke Bruerne's postcards which is a photo of Redcap set up for trips- very small cabin over the engine and large open foredeck.

 

An aircooled 3 cylinder Lister was certainly fitted for all of the period we had her, all those rivets and the hull look spot on....

 

 

WOnderful stuff. Thanks, Will

[wooden_will]

 

Over Christmas I took a few photos of things from the family album. Apologies for some of the quality, I'll do some scanning at some point in the future.

http://public.fotki.com/WillWallace/redcap/

 

One slight mystery I wasn't aware of is the signpainted owners name on the cabin sides while Redcap was at Stoke Bruerne, presumably being used as a trip boat. Slightly later photos have AJP Ritchie's name in place, but I can't make out what was there previously. Close up is available in the fotki album.

 

Happy New Year W

[alan_fincher]

Close up is available in the fotki album.

Trying to access the album asks me for a password......

[Starcoaster]

same here.

[wooden_will]

Any better......?

 

sorry

Edited January 1, 2013 by wooden_will

[RLWP]

Yes, that's better

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Richard

Edited January 1, 2013 by RLWP

[Derek R.]

Very good. Is that A J P Ritchie on the button accordian?

 

Thanks for posting.

 

PS. The trip boat view does look like 'VILLAGE TRUST' written on the cabin side. Hard to say.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Derek R.

[wooden_will]

Very good. Is that A J P Ritchie on the button accordian?

 

Thanks for posting.

 

PS. The trip boat view does look like 'VILLAGE TRUST' written on the cabin side. Hard to say.

 

No, that's my pa doing his best 'soulful beatnik water gypsy' pose

[Speedwheel]

Does anyone know who owns No2/Redcap now?

[thorne lass]

The boat in the original pic. Carl posted has bollards on the counter, the boat in the archive pic. has t studs - would it be common for these to change during a boats life??

 

 

ETA - tiller is a very different design too..

 

 

 

..

.... and the rivets round the counter are different, and there is no rubbing band around at deck level, and the bow rubbing band stops short etc. Different boats i think. I agree with the suggestion that this was a horseboat, motorised.

[Paul H]

Does anyone know who owns No2/Redcap now?

Redcap John is a member of the forum but hasn't been active for a while.

 

There's a cracking postcard of the boat on ebay at the moment but perhaps thats what brought it to mind.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OLD-PC-OF-BOAT-INN-CANAL-BASIN-STOKE-BRUERNE-GRAND-UNION-CANAL-/370923418476?pt=UK_Collectables_Postcards_MJ&hash=item565cc2336c

 

Paul

 

Edited to insert ebay link

Edited October 21, 2013 by Paul H

[Rose Narrowboats]

I hope no one objects to an update to an old thread:

Redcap has recently gone back into the water at Wayford Bridge after pretty comprehensive refit including a new 2mm stainless steel cabin. Its well proportioned IMHO, nicely painted and keeps the topside weight down. She still belongs to the gentleman who has owned her since the early 1990s.

The current Oxford 1 was almost certainly the second boat built based on Pete Downer's research of the OCC archives at Warwick, but like at least one other boat on the Hillmorton section in the 50s and 60s underwent an identity swap, and it was quite early on as there is a photo dating from the early 50s clearly showing the name and some of the distinctive features of the second hull.

Redcap was rebottomed in the drydock at Hillmorton in the 1950s and Oxford 1 transferred to Hartshill section and my guess is that one of those events precipitated a spot of "ringing". I don't think, given the similarities with the other Harris tugs built around that time that either of them is a recycled hull, but based on other information I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the iron plate used was not new. Wartime economies are clear - the rudder blade on Oxford 1 is made out of two thinner bits of iron riveted together.

That said, all the original plating on Oxford 1 (which is about 90% of it) looks to be in the similar condition and therefore likely to be the same age and the correspondence suggests the OCC certainly believed the were getting new hulls! They weren't happy with some aspects of the design of the first one and requested alterations which are apparent in the hull of what is now known as Oxford 1 (confused yet?!) and had the hull sent to FMC at Saltley for the engine and cabin to be fitted.

I can post pics of Oxford 1's hull for comparison if anyone is interested.

Anthony

[RLWP]

4 minutes ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

I can post pics of Oxford 1's hull for comparison if anyone is interested.

Anthony

Of course!

Richard

[cuthound]

12 hours ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

I can post pics of Oxford 1's hull for comparison if anyone is interested.

Stop being such a tease Anthony and post the picces 

Edited July 5, 2017 by cuthound
Spillung

[john10]

Hello everybody Redcap is indeed back in the water after a re cabin                

[john10]

Hello Everybody.  REDCAP is now back in the water, complete with its DIY stainless steel cabin (stainless steel purchased from local scrap yard for the princely sum of £20 a sheet!).  The stainless steel is 2mm thick.  This was a massive job but it's now done and I'm very pleased with the result.  I am pleased to read Anthony's post.  When Anthony bought the OXFORD 1/2 hull, I gave him all the information I had.  I'm glad he's passed it on to Pete Downing, who has come to the same conclusion as me regarding our boats after reading documents at Warwick Public Records Office.  

I first came across the records now residing at Warwick, courtesy of Charles Hadfield, in a box in a shed at Hillmorton.  I had a quick dig in them and retrieved a few pieces relevant to REDCAP.  The boys at Hillmorton had been told to chuck them and I told them not to, but I wasn't sure what to do with them.  Fortunately, Charles came up soon after me knew where to send them.  From memory, I think the contents of this box is the entire records that are now held at Warwick; a good job they were saved.

I think the identity swap occurred earlier than Anthony suggested, to save the Oxford Canal Company directors' faces, as REDCAP did not break ice as they had expected and they instructed the engineer to write to Harris Brothers requesting a much rounder bow design for their second boat.  Unfortunately, according to Happy Smith, the blacksmith at Hillmorton, "The second boat wouldn't break eggshells!".  I do have copies of correspondence between the Oxford Canal Company and Harris Brothers, and at a later date will post copies here to support both Pete's and my conclusion about our respective boats.  I also have a photograph of Pete's boat at Warwickshire Fly Boats water and at the Braunston Turn, when in the ownership of Anthony, which I will try and find and post at the same time as the letters.  Below is a recent photo of REDCAP in the water at Wayford Bridge.   Redcap John.

[Mr Norman]

Just an aside to note that Jon has had to vacate the Wayford Bridge yard as the owners would not renew his lease and have seemingly passed it on to a developer who will be adding holiday cottages etc. Shame to lose such a useful "proper" working yard on the Broads where there are far too few!