Headstone in a Coventry grave yard

[Ray T]

Came across this headstone today and thought it may be of interest.

 

 

Quality is not too good as I only had my camera phone with me.

 

 

[Derek R.]

Seemed to be a technical fault in accessing the forum yesterday, but that's a nice representation of a GU butty. The Wallingtons were a boating family like many, and I dare say well known by some - though not me.

[alan_fincher]

The Wallingtons were a boating family like many, and I dare say well known by some - though not me.

My brothers worked with a Jim Wallington, I think, on the local maintenance section. I have no idea if he was related.

 

Possibly Ian T would have known him, I don't know ?

[jeannette smith harrison]

Hello ray T

Was this headstone in Windmill road cemetery ? not a lot is known on records about the Wallington family (I have a few parish records from Brentford) a large chunk of the family seem to have emigrated to America in early 1900. A Thomas Wallington married in northamptonshire, records then show his wife died in America leaving two daughters & three sons. Thomas later re married & is buried in America with his second wife

A vast amount of canal people settled in Coventry & Windmill Road & Marston Lane have lots of Canal people resting there. It looks as if your photo is a newish headstone so some Wallingtons still remain in Coventry will have to ask some questions when i am i Coventry in a few weeks time.

Jeannette

[Tim Lewis]

My brothers worked with a Jim Wallington, I think, on the local maintenance section. I have no idea if he was related.

 

Possibly Ian T would have known him, I don't know ?

 

Jim Wallington was the steerer of Fulbourne from 1949 to 1953 (according to our historian!)

 

A few details:

 

http://www.fulbourne.org.uk/hist2.html

 

Tim

[Ray T]

Hello ray T

Was this headstone in Windmill road cemetery ? not a lot is known on records about the Wallington family (I have a few parish records from Brentford) a large chunk of the family seem to have emigrated to America in early 1900. A Thomas Wallington married in northamptonshire, records then show his wife died in America leaving two daughters & three sons. Thomas later re married & is buried in America with his second wife

A vast amount of canal people settled in Coventry & Windmill Road & Marston Lane have lots of Canal people resting there. It looks as if your photo is a newish headstone so some Wallingtons still remain in Coventry will have to ask some questions when i am i Coventry in a few weeks time.

Jeannette

 

It is in the Cemetery at Lenton's Lane. Not too far from Windmill Rd.

 

The headstone is opposite that of my late wife. (not the current Mrs T!)

[alan_fincher]

Came across this headstone today and thought it may be of interest.

 

 

Quality is not too good as I only had my camera phone with me.

In the book "Tales from the Old Inland Waterways" by Euan Corrie there is a picture taken on Page 163 by former boatman Sam Horne captioned......

 

In an attempt to reduce the amount of unproductive waiting time they paid boatmen for, BW employed a number (including the two Sams) cutting overhanging trees along the Oxford Canal, which was easily carried out from the ice., Sam Horne photographed George Wain, sam Brooks, Bert Wallington, Ronnie Hough and Les Lapworth standing on the canal near Hillmorton.

 

Assuming they are in the order pictured, Bert Wallington looks a very tall man.

 

Picture isn't dated, but maybe relates to 62/63 winter ? (Just a guess but canal would need to be well frozen!).

 

Health and Safety, hey! Lets send a bunch of men out to stand on a frozen canal and cut the trees!......

 

"Ronnie" Hough, (I assume it is the same man ?), looks to hardly be out of his teens!

[Derek R.]

There's a photo somewhere of a Bedford CA van belonging to Waterways parked on the frozen canal. In places I've heard the ice was three feet thick.

[pete harrison]

Hello ray T

 

not a lot is known on records about the Wallington family

 

Jeannette

 

I have a number of 'British Waterways' fleet lists and the Wallington family are well represented on every one, including Bert Wallington.

[David Schweizer]

In the book "Tales from the Old Inland Waterways" by Euan Corrie there is a picture taken on Page 163 by former boatman Sam Horne captioned......

 

 

 

Assuming they are in the order pictured, Bert Wallington looks a very tall man.

 

Picture isn't dated, but maybe relates to 62/63 winter ? (Just a guess but canal would need to be well frozen!).

 

Health and Safety, hey! Lets send a bunch of men out to stand on a frozen canal and cut the trees!......

 

"Ronnie" Hough, (I assume it is the same man ?), looks to hardly be out of his teens!

There are two Ron Houghs, if you are asking if it is the Ron Hough who worked for Frank Nurser, as a boat painter and decorator, I am pretty certain that it is not, so Iguess that it is the Ron Hough who was a working boatman. I have a photo of Ron Hough the boat painter and decorator aged about 16 and he was not as stocky as the Ron in Euan's book. I am due to see Ron (the painter) next week so I will ask him.

Edited July 23, 2011 by David Schweizer

[jeannette smith harrison]

Peter

Do any of these sort of lists give the family members on board or just the steerer?

I have spent the last thirty odd years collecting data i.e. parish records from all the known churches used by the boat people from Brentford to Long Buckby & a few on the Oxford. I also match up some familys through census records or word of mouth from existing family members also cemeterys where boatmen are known to be buried.

Once i have enough i can then piece together a family tree dont forget most could not read or write so many of their family trees have never been written,some trees have taken me twenty or more years to piece together as the boatmen where on the move all the time & often would evade the census. I know of only three other people who study & collect canal genealogy & i pass & swap info with them & also share my info with people who find that they had a family member who worked on the canals.Sometimes i have asked on this forum for info on boats if i have a birth cert, parish record or Census that has given boat details.my list of matching boats to the familys is small maybe i should consider matching these boat records to the family trees.so if yourself or anyone else has info related to the boatmans family such as birth & death places & dates,children & grandchildren,who married who, please share it as all this vital info will eventually go to a canal museum for future generations to see.

Jeannette

[pete harrison]

Peter

Do any of these sort of lists give the family members on board or just the steerer?

 

Jeannette

 

The only information generally given on a fleet list is:- date / motor name / butty name / steerer

[jeannette smith harrison]

The only information generally given on a fleet list is:- date / motor name / butty name / steerer

Thank you Pete where or how is the best way to search out these sort of records.

Jeannette

[David Schweizer]

Peter

Do any of these sort of lists give the family members on board or just the steerer?

I have spent the last thirty odd years collecting data i.e. parish records from all the known churches used by the boat people from Brentford to Long Buckby & a few on the Oxford. I also match up some familys through census records or word of mouth from existing family members also cemeterys where boatmen are known to be buried.

Once i have enough i can then piece together a family tree dont forget most could not read or write so many of their family trees have never been written,some trees have taken me twenty or more years to piece together as the boatmen where on the move all the time & often would evade the census. I know of only three other people who study & collect canal genealogy & i pass & swap info with them & also share my info with people who find that they had a family member who worked on the canals.Sometimes i have asked on this forum for info on boats if i have a birth cert, parish record or Census that has given boat details.my list of matching boats to the familys is small maybe i should consider matching these boat records to the family trees.so if yourself or anyone else has info related to the boatmans family such as birth & death places & dates,children & grandchildren,who married who, please share it as all this vital info will eventually go to a canal museum for future generations to see.

Jeannette

The Census returns give the names, ages, place of birth and relationship with head of house hold, but i susopect you apready knew that. I have the 1881 census on disc and it is possible to use a word search, which often produces lists of Canal Boating families. Any larger public library should have a copy and the set covers thae whole country.

Edited July 23, 2011 by David Schweizer

[pete harrison]

Thank you Pete where or how is the best way to search out these sort of records.

Jeannette

 

It has taken me years to find what I have, mostly coming from either archives or private collections. Another good source is traffic records if you want to put boatmen to boat names / company's / routes.

[tony collins]

Hurst Road (Coventry) almost between Lentons Lane and Windmill Road is also a rich source of Headstones of boating families.

[Derek R.]

Possibly Ian T would have known him, I don't know ?

 

Chatted to Ian this-afternoon, he didn't know him, but did say a lot of boating folk settled around Coventry after carrying 'stopped'.

[jeannette smith harrison]

Thank you for all your input.I have just returned from Daventry with more records to add to the huge piles that are awaiting to be sorted & catalogued.looks like another trip to Kew soon to go through the railway files. Tony will add Hurst Road onto my list,David have four Houghs on list one gives occupation as canal engine driver then later canal boatman,one listed as boatman(Braunston) & then the one who worked for nursers & one boatman who worked for Fellows & Mortons & then E Smith out of Brentford. Looks like i have enough reserching now to last another thirty years.

Jeannette

[Derek R.]

"Canal Engine Driver" might sound strange, but I believe the steamer crew were called that - particularly when working the engine in the engine'ole. Around the Birmingham area the term 'driver' was attributed to what elsewhere is known as 'steerer', especially so when driving tugs.

[alan_fincher]

"Canal Engine Driver" might sound strange, but I believe the steamer crew were called that - particularly when working the engine in the engine'ole. Around the Birmingham area the term 'driver' was attributed to what elsewhere is known as 'steerer', especially so when driving tugs.

"Engine Driver" is regularly used in old census returns, and on other paperwork like birth and marriage certificates to mean someone in charge of a fixed stationary steam engine.

 

For example if you study census returns covering Little Tring, those who "drove" the steam pumps there are often referred to as "Engine Driver".

 

An oft made mistake by those doing genealogical research is to wrongly assume if someone was an "Engine Driver" that what the engine was part of actually had to move as a result of that engine! The most common mistake is to assume that it meant they drove steam railway locomotives.

 

I think someone who tended "portable" steam engines, not capable of moving themselves, such as those regularly used on farms for threshing, and the like, would often also show as "Engine Driver". It covers a very wide range of the meaning of "Engine"!

[Derek R.]

That is true Alan, but a "Canal engine driver"?

 

The report of the deaths of those killed in a steam tug PINCHER boiler explosion at Yardley Wharf on the 21nd December 1875 in which both the men killed were called: 'Engine drivers'.

(Extracts from the minutes of the Grand Junction Canal Company, page 3.)

 

Also, the report of those killed by asphixiation aboard The BEE in Blisworth tunnel; Drivers, and Engine Drivers.

 

For generations, 'engine drivers' have been railway footplatemen, but there were also the Traction engine drivers, and before geared motion, the Stationary engine drivers. For each generation such terms will allude to different occupations. Of course when 'Engines' became part of a unit that also carried passengers by rail, there came into more common use the shortened 'Driver', or 'Train Driver', though Electrics always had their 'Motormen'.

 

I think if Jeannettes discovery as 'canal engine driver' - for a time maybe - also mentioned that same person as being listed as 'boatman', we can fairly well establish he was of a steam canal boat.

[alan_fincher]

I think if Jeannettes discovery as 'canal engine driver' - for a time maybe - also mentioned that same person as being listed as 'boatman', we can fairly well establish he was of a steam canal boat.

I think it may seem a very reasonable guess to make, but in genealogical research guessing sometimes catches you out.

 

Yes, it has to be a very good chance it relates to a steam canal boat, but can certainly find examples of FINCHERs who were for a while recorded as boatmen, but who moved to land based jobs, some canal related, some not. Equally one sees people not nitially boatmen becoming them over time.

 

I have certainly come across "Canal Engine Driver", or "Engine Driver, Canal Company" used to describe people who from their land based address, and location (e.g. Little Tring) may be more reasonably assumed to not be working as boatmen at the time, although you can't be certain of this unless it says something like "Canal Engine Driver at Pumphouse".

 

I think you can really only say that if your "Canal Engine Driver" is actually recorded as resident on a boat you can be confident it means they are driving a steam canal boat.

 

On the other hand, a land based address does not prove they are not a boatman by trade. Someone like a tunnel tug driver is a boatman, but would not live on a boat, normally, and would get enumerated at a land based address.

[jeannette smith harrison]

No guessing or lies on any genealogical info or reserch I give out . I only pass on info that I have down in black & white on parish records Birth Certificates ect. one wrong bit of info in reserching their Family Tree can then put that persons whole tree out & cause them years of wasted research.If you are tracing some of your Family i am sure you know what i am talking about, the fact that one small mistake can be fatal & link you to a wrong Family.

1906 a Hough gives his occupation as Engine driver on Canal 1907,Engine Driver ON CANAL 1910 Boat engine driver. Other canal boatmen also listed are Malby occupation Canal engine driver in 1883 & Canal Engine Driver in 1887 .1902 a Green is listed as a Steam Tug Engine Driver. A Bavington also lists occupation as Canal Engine Driver.I could spend hours listing some of the names of Boatmen who are listed as the above mentioned occupations others just list plain & simple Boatman.I have however come across some churches where the Priest or Vicar Baptise,wed,& buried the canal

boat people & would list them as watermen ,boatworkers & such likes so i always pass on exact as the said document is printed. In the post the Name Hough was mentioned I belive if memory serves me right that i stated that i had 3 or 4 canal related familys under that name & gave a few listed occupations

Jeannette

[Derek R.]

It's going to be very difficult to establish 'Black & White' certainty of many peoples jobs at a given time. Take for example my Father's occupation as filled out on his death certificate. It relied upon me to give the evidence. In unfamiliar surroundings I explained that his last job of work was as reception desk clerk at the Zoological Society where he was part of a two man team receiving visitors to the Zoo office. The entry therefore was Desk Clerk, though for the previous 19 years he had been a Gate Keeper.

 

One has to consider that amongst the working population generations ago, illiteracy was more common, amongst boat people more so due to their itinerant way of life. There was also a stigma attached to boat people that made them reluctant to speak out in public places, so there is always the possibility of official documents containing less than the truth in many situations. We are therefore bound to some degree, of doing a little or as in Jeannettes case - a lot of detective work in discovering what lay beneath the surface. The black and white of census and registry are all we have to go by on the face of it. But as in so many cases - like which boat is that in the Stoke Hammond Three pound - we may never find detailed records that fulfill our specific requirements, but instead rely on deductions made from various sources through other existing records such as they may be, and sometimes not necessarily directly attached to the issue at hand.

 

I wonder what entry will be made on my death certificate. The list of jobs I have had would run off the page. Does the last known employment tell of what I was - or did?

 

Also; why should a man not be as described, if he is not a 'resident' on a boat to be called a 'canal engine driver' or boatman? For a while I was a bus driver. I've never been resident on a bus in my life! Your last paragraph recognises this, yet seems to stand in contradiction of the previous.

 

PS: Just to add: I have ancestors that have been entered in registers with names spelt differently. How can I be sure they are the right people? On birth, marriage and death certificates we may see different occupations - I have one man as "Journeyman" on one document, "Yard Foreman" on another, and yet "Stone Worker" on another. Was he a 'Syer', or an 'Isaiah'.

 

Black and White is all we have to go by when living memory is gone. Guessing leads to error. Investigation and deduction from various sources is often all we have to go by - that's not guessing. Research - a laborious and quite often thankless task except for those directly linked.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Derek R.

[alan_fincher]

Also; why should a man not be as described, if he is not a 'resident' on a boat to be called a 'canal engine driver' or boatman? For a while I was a bus driver. I've never been resident on a bus in my life! Your last paragraph recognises this, yet seems to stand in contradiction of the previous.

I have reread the whole of my post, and can't see any contradiction.

 

Briefly.....

 

A "canal engine driver", (or similar), recorded as living on a boat seems highly likely to be a boatman, (at that time).

 

A "canal engine driver", (or similar), not recorded as living on a boat may be a boatman, or may be employed driving some other engine that is related to canals, (the obvious example being land based pumping engines).

 

No contradiction there I can see. Further evidence is then required. If they live at (or close to) sya "the pumphouse at xxxxxx" they are probably land based, but if the previous and subsequent census recorded them as boatman, (or other contemporary sources dd), then they are probably boatmen.

 

Take a look at the 1881 census, and search for the keywords "canal", "engine" and "driver" - it may surprise you how few of the hits are apparently obviously actually boatmen! It may also surprise you how often it turns up people not living near what one would these days recognised as "canals" - I can't really explain that one, without more research.

 

Alan

 

(former bus driver - for a brief period - also never resident on a bus in my life!......)