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I want one of these lock windlasses ! ! !


Justin Smith

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On ‎16‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 08:21, cuthound said:

Cheap, nasty things which because of the open frame construction cause damage and wear to the tapeted spindles.

I have just received my 4 hole windlass for my birthday (! ? !). I did check to see if the holes were different sizes (on either side of the frame I mean) so as to account for the tapered spindle and give a better fit and therefore, as you say, less damage to either the windlass or the spindle.

A few minutes with a vernier gave the following rather bizarre results :

 

Smaller holes : non handle side 26.3mm square, handle side 24.0mm square, i.e. 2.3mm smaller - as one would expect

 

Larger holes : non handle side 30.8mm square, handle side 31.2mm square, i.e. 0.4mm larger - ? ! ?

 

How can that be ? One would expect the holes on the handle side to be slightly smaller to compensate for the taper of the spindle, as indeed the smaller holes are. But for the larger holes the handle side ones are actually larger ! Has the windlass been made correctly or have I missed something ? If the former has anyone got Walsh Implements phone number for me to check with them ?

Windlass C.jpg

Edited by Justin Smith
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1 hour ago, Justin Smith said:

I have just received my 4 hole windlass for my birthday (! ? !). I did check to see if the holes were different sizes (on either side of the frame I mean) so as to account for the tapered spindle and give a better fit and therefore, as you say, less damage to either the windlass or the spindle.

A few minutes with a vernier gave the following rather bizarre results :

 

Smaller holes : non handle side 26.3mm square, handle side 24.0mm square, i.e. 2.3mm smaller - as one would expect

 

Larger holes : non handle side 30.8mm square, handle side 31.2mm square, i.e. 0.4mm larger - ? ! ?

 

How can that be ? One would expect the holes on the handle side to be slightly smaller to compensate for the taper of the spindle, as indeed the smaller holes are. But for the larger holes the handle side ones are actually larger ! Has the windlass been made correctly or have I missed something ? If the former has anyone got Walsh Implements phone number for me to check with them ?

Windlass C.jpg


Sorry to rubbish your birthday present, but probably because these things are really crap!

Even if they fit correctly, they don't bear on enough of a spindle to not risk doing damage, (assuming lots of people now use them, which, unfortunately they do).

However I don't think the larger square should be tapered, because it is designed for things like hydraulic paddles that actually have a parallel shaft.  I suspect the reason they have made the handle side holes bigger is that if they did not, you would have to line it up perfectly to get it fully on, and with them oversize, you do not.  Hence I doubt it is doing much in the winding, and all the forces are largely just on the non handle side.

A windlass really should contact the flats on the spindle over a large area - these can't.



 

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18 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:


Sorry to rubbish your birthday present, but probably because these things are really crap!

Even if they fit correctly, they don't bear on enough of a spindle to not risk doing damage, (assuming lots of people now use them, which, unfortunately they do).

However I don't think the larger square should be tapered, because it is designed for things like hydraulic paddles that actually have a parallel shaft.  I suspect the reason they have made the handle side holes bigger is that if they did not, you would have to line it up perfectly to get it fully on, and with them oversize, you do not.  Hence I doubt it is doing much in the winding, and all the forces are largely just on the non handle side.

A windlass really should contact the flats on the spindle over a large area - these can't.



 

As regards doing possible damage to the spindles (because the frame type windlasses allegedly don`t spread the load onto the spindle), surely, unless the box spanner type windlasses are tapered, only the non handle end of the box spanner is actually making contact with the tapered spindle ? Is that not correct ? If it is correct it may well be the frame type are actually making just as much contact (surface area wise) as the box spanner type ?

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4 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

As regards doing possible damage to the spindles (because the frame type windlasses allegedly don`t spread the load onto the spindle), surely, unless the box spanner type windlasses are tapered, only the non handle end of the box spanner is actually making contact with the tapered spindle ? Is that not correct ? If it is correct it may well be the frame type are actually making just as much contact (surface area wise) as the box spanner type ?

All windlasses that go on a tapered spindle should be tapered, irrespective of type.

 

Any that isn't is not really suitable.

In my experience most of the cast type do have a taper in the smaller eye, so should contact an undamaged "standard" spindle over quite a large area.

These are definitely correctly tapered in the smaller eye......

 

5989_450_450.jpg

 

as, I have always assumed, are these......

 

standard-galvanised-canal-windlass-boat-

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18 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

All windlasses that go on a tapered spindle should be tapered, irrespective of type.

 

Any that isn't is not really suitable.

In my experience most of the cast type do have a taper in the smaller eye, so should contact an undamaged "standard" spindle over quite a large area.

These are definitely correctly tapered in the smaller eye......

 

5989_450_450.jpg

 

as, I have always assumed, are these......

 

standard-galvanised-canal-windlass-boat-

If they are tapered (including the welded type which are possibly more common ? ) then obviously the contact surface area would be much greater. That said, many people use open ended spanners and for most things they`re OK, particularly for square nuts much torque can be safely used. Ring spanners are capable of accepting even more torque without damaging the nut, and that`s a hexagonal nut don`t forget. The open frame type windlass is effectively two ring spanners one above the other, i.e. double the contact area of a plain ring spanner.

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17 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

The open frame type windlass is effectively two ring spanners one above the other, i.e. double the contact area of a plain ring spanner.

Well your larger eye clearly isn't going to be contacting much in the square on the handle side, based on your measurements!

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2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Well your larger eye clearly isn't going to be contacting much in the square on the handle side, based on your measurements!

I agree, hence me wanting to check with Walshes Implements that the windlass wasn`t manufactured incorrectly. 

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One of these windlasses has migrated onto our boat from somewhere. I've used it a few times, it seems to be perfectly serviceable. I did notice none of the BCN Challenge crew wanted to use it preferring others from our motley selection

 

I prefer to use my old Harborough cast windlass which, according to Alan, doesn't fit any locks anymore

 

Richard

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On 14/06/2011 at 10:33, Justin Smith said:

 

Where would it nip your fingers ?

They nip the skin between thumb & fore finger twixt the revolving part & the end stop by far the best is a smooth sanded/polished solid handle

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18 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

I agree, hence me wanting to check with Walshes Implements that the windlass wasn`t manufactured incorrectly. 

If you do what I just did and Google it, you'll find that Whilton Marina Chandlery stock them, as such I'd expect them to have contact details?

 

Personally I wouldn't touch one of those with your barge pole.

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On 30/06/2011 at 10:04, bottle said:

 or over my shoulder with the handle down the back of my neck inside my clothing.

Some boatmans method if you didn't require fo dropping paddles you didn't have to remove it to close gates as it didn't did in your lower back whe leaning against the beams as it would if tucked in the back of your belt

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8 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

If you do what I just did and Google it, you'll find that Whilton Marina Chandlery stock them, as such I'd expect them to have contact details?

 

Personally I wouldn't touch one of those with your barge pole.

It was actually bought from Britmarine aka Sawley Marina, I may phone them for Walshes phone number. Speaking from experience, I run a business supplying by mail order (amongst other things) and we get a bit frustrated at people phoning us up for info when they haven`t, and don`t intend to, buy anything off us ! One guy was on the phone to me for 35 soddin` minutes picking my brains the other day, and still didn`t buy anything, thirty five minutes ! I can usually tell when people are time wasting but he knew just how to keep me on supplying all the possible info he needed for his supposedly urgent job. My thoughts on him are unprintable.......

Edited by Justin Smith
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31 minutes ago, RLWP said:

One of these windlasses has migrated onto our boat from somewhere. I've used it a few times, it seems to be perfectly serviceable. I did notice none of the BCN Challenge crew wanted to use it preferring others from our motley selection

 

I prefer to use my old Harborough cast windlass which, according to Alan, doesn't fit any locks anymore

 

Richard

Funnily enough I`ve just been onto the supplier, and she says they actually sell them to the CRT, so, one would have thought, they can`t be that bad !

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1 minute ago, Justin Smith said:

Funnily enough I`ve just been onto the supplier, and she says they actually sell them to the CRT, so, one would have thought, they can`t be that bad !


I don't know......

Somebody managed to sell them their new logo for a lot more money than is charged for these windlasses!

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7 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

It was actually bought from Britmarine aka Sawley Marina, I may phone them for Walshes phone number. Speaking from experience, I run a business supplying by mail order (amongst other things) and we get a bit frustrated at people phoning us up for info when they haven`t, and don`t intend to, buy anything off us ! One guy was on the phone to me for 35 soddin` minutes picking my brains the other day, and still didn`t buy anything, thirty five minutes ! I can usually tell when people are time wasting but he knew just how to keep me on supplying all the possible info he needed for his supposedly urgent job. My thoughts on him are unprintable.......

You need to learn to be more assertive and/or how to turn every enquiry into a selling opportunity.

The fact that C&RT are supposedly using them I wouldn't take as much of a recommendation, have you seen how they spend money and visualise the future of our Inland Waterways ?

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20 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

You need to learn to be more assertive and/or how to turn every enquiry into a selling opportunity.

I agree with you but it`s very difficult when the "customer" is telling you to list what he needs so he can order it for a job which has to be done in the next few days. What can one do ? Basically if people want to rip off your time there isn`t really much you can do about it, but what makes it even more unforgiveable is all the information he needed (and a shed load else) is all on our website anyway, he just couldn`t be arsed to look for it !

At the end of the day, morally, all of us should spend our money where we get our information (or vice verse), it`s that simple.

Edited by Justin Smith
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Yup, they're boggers.

 

If you suspect they're time wasters then point out that all the information he requires is on the website and you'll offer him a discount for accessing it and placing the order, thank you for calling and have a nice day.

 

If he wants to know what size of discount tell him …. it depends on the size of the order ….. thank you for calling and have a nice day.

 

If you weren't going to get the order in the first place it hardly matters, and if he does order, then ask him what sort of discount he thinks would be adequate, then tell him what you would be prepared to offer him because his suggestion would mean you were selling at a loss ….. thank you for calling and have a nice day.

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2 hours ago, Justin Smith said:

It was actually bought from Britmarine aka Sawley Marina, I may phone them for Walshes phone number. Speaking from experience, I run a business supplying by mail order (amongst other things) and we get a bit frustrated at people phoning us up for info when they haven`t, and don`t intend to, buy anything off us ! One guy was on the phone to me for 35 soddin` minutes picking my brains the other day, and still didn`t buy anything, thirty five minutes ! I can usually tell when people are time wasting but he knew just how to keep me on supplying all the possible info he needed for his supposedly urgent job. My thoughts on him are unprintable.......

 

SO... you're a printer then eh??

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5 hours ago, alan_fincher said:


I don't know......

Somebody managed to sell them their new logo for a lot more money than is charged for these windlasses!

You don't know how much they have agreed as a preferred supplier....probably double the usual amount with a 5% discount for multiples of 50....?

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We bought one of these at the Crick show

 

https://gowindlass.co.uk/

 

It's a lot on money compared to others but it's made such a difference for my wife who is weaker now following some major surgery she had last year. They are the same size as a normal windlass but a little heavier at just under a kg, but nothing like as heavy or cumbersome (or expensive) as those long handled ratcheted ones which have been available for years. It can be used just like a normal windlass but if the gear is stiff she just 'pumps' it up and down instead of straining trying to turn it through it's full circle.

 

Well worth the  £70 (£60 at the show) given her health issues. We've just got to make sure we never lose it!

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7 minutes ago, Grassman said:

Well worth the  £70 (£60 at the show) given her health issues. We've just got to make sure we never lose it!

 

Price according to your link is £80!

 

But I agree. Of all the clicky windlasses (I always think the plural should be ‘windlii’ lol) out there, this is the one I would buy if I wanted one. 

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18 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Of all the clicky windlasses (I always think the plural should be ‘windlii’ lol) 

 

No, it's definitely windlasses as in lads and lasses. Windlii refers to the sub species of the genus Ratchet. Another example would be Ratchet Wheelnutii.

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9 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Price according to your link is £80!

 

But I agree. Of all the clicky windlasses (I always think the plural should be ‘windlii’ lol) out there, this is the one I would buy if I wanted one. 

 

But how would you know if it was in calibration? ?

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