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jake_crew

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When Jake was built in '76, we couldn't afford a decent Lister in any sort of condition, and were offered a Gleniffer DB2 which was cheap as it was very old ('32) and a bit of an unknown.

 

Gleniffer were really seagoing ship engine makers and ours is an ex-lifeboat engine, the DB being the smallest engine series they made. Built in Glasgow they are clearly linked to Kelvin, and share a number of features. But also some unique parts - such as the clerestory combustion chambers (opposed valves horizontal) which was an interesting arrangement also a feature of the Russell Newberry engines. They are modular with separate heads for each piston, and individual crank pins which you bolt together to give the configuration you want - from twin to straight 8 with V8 and V12 options too.

 

Air start - reservoir re-charge from one cylinder (by knocking out the injector pump), constant mesh gearbox, running oil pressure ..... ahem, above zero.

 

DCV12

 

The above example is one of a pair of 8s in a ship engine room. The engines were available as std or reverse rotation so that matched pairs were often used in bigger ships.

 

The Massey Shaw fireboat in London (TV Salvage Squad) also has a pair of straight 8s Glenies for propulsion and pump duties.

 

Our lil' DB2 is being stripped for metal stitching to the water jacket and eventual fitting to the tug.

 

Photos of ours to follow.

Edited by jake_crew
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If you need to get any more info or help with your DB2 just give Andy Bruce at Seaward Engineering in Glasgow a ring (041 632 4910).

 

Andy has done a significant amount of work on both of the Massey Shaw's Gleniffers. She was running with just one for a long time after Andy did it up. Then Salvage Squad had a go at the other and Andy was called in afterwards to make it go properly!!

 

When I mentioned Salvage Squad to him recently I heard a whole lot of new Glaswegian words I hadn't heard before!!

 

Richard

Edited by rjasmith
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  • 3 weeks later...

I too am now the proud owner of a Gleniffer DB2, in Reginald No 2 :-D

 

Here's an awful pic, taken on my phone in the dark:

 

engine.jpg

 

Unfortunately it won't start. The starter motor will not run :-(

 

Sadly all the air-start equipment has been removed and an electric starter motor of unknown origin fitted. Here's a pic of the non-working starter:

 

starter.jpg

 

Does anyone recognise this starter motor please?

 

And can anyone identify the two electrical connector studs please? The big one is, I suspect, a permanent positive but I've no idea what the little one is for. It had a thin wire connected to it before the motor was removed from the engine for repair before I bought it. The repair was abandoned when they could not dismantle the motor for further diagnosis. I need to either repair this motor or find another one the same before I can move the boat!

 

Any ideas, anyone?

 

I'll try ringing Seaward Engineering tomorrow as suggested by Richard.

 

Mike

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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I too am now the proud owner of a Gleniffer DB2, in Reginald No 2 :-D

 

Here's an awful pic, taken on my phone in the dark:

 

engine.jpg

 

Unfortunately it won't start. The starter motor will not run :-(

 

Sadly all the air-start equipment has been removed and an electric starter motor of unknown origin fitted. Here's a pic of the non-working starter:

 

starter.jpg

 

Does anyone recognise this starter motor please?

 

And can anyone identify the two electrical connector studs please? The big one is, I suspect, a permanent positive but I've no idea what the little one is for. It had a thin wire connected to it before the motor was removed from the engine for repair before I bought it. The repair was abandoned when they could not dismantle the motor for further diagnosis. I need to either repair this motor or find another one the same before I can move the boat!

 

Any ideas, anyone?

 

I'll try ringing Seaward Engineering tomorrow as suggested by Richard.

 

Mike

 

 

Looks like a fairly standard CAV type starter motor from a truck. I think it is known as an Axial Starter but I always forget which one is an Axial Starter and which is a Coaxial Starter (the other one has a big housing thing on the end).

 

The small terminal is the equivalent of the ordinary diesel starter's solenoid energising terminal and needs feeding from the starts position on the ignition switch but I would probably feed it via a good relay of petrol starter solenoid because I do not know its current draw.

 

These starters have some internal contacts so my advice would be to take it to a specialist for overhaul.

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I too am now the proud owner of a Gleniffer DB2, in Reginald No 2 :-D

 

Here's an awful pic, taken on my phone in the dark:

 

engine.jpg

 

Unfortunately it won't start. The starter motor will not run :-(

 

Sadly all the air-start equipment has been removed and an electric starter motor of unknown origin fitted. Here's a pic of the non-working starter:

 

starter.jpg

 

Does anyone recognise this starter motor please?

 

And can anyone identify the two electrical connector studs please? The big one is, I suspect, a permanent positive but I've no idea what the little one is for. It had a thin wire connected to it before the motor was removed from the engine for repair before I bought it. The repair was abandoned when they could not dismantle the motor for further diagnosis. I need to either repair this motor or find another one the same before I can move the boat!

 

Any ideas, anyone?

 

I'll try ringing Seaward Engineering tomorrow as suggested by Richard.

 

Mike

 

CA45

 

The small stud is for the start lead, the big one is the +ve, there may be another on the far end for the -ve

 

Tim

 

Edit to add - connecting the small stud to the adjacent large one, via hefty button or a relay, should operate the starter.

Edited by Timleech
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CA45

 

The small stud is for the start lead, the big one is the +ve, there may be another on the far end for the -ve

 

Tim

 

Edit to add - connecting the small stud to the adjacent large one, via hefty button or a relay, should operate the starter.

 

 

Excellent. Thanks everyone. Having found and read a detailed diagram and explanation of how the CA45 works I see it has solenoid function built in, which why I was puzzled by the extra connection. I thought the solenoid was external and the motor was just a motor.

 

Anyway it looks complex so I'm taking it to a specialist. Thames Valley Electro Diesels in Reading say they can fix it in a couple of days so I'm taking it to them to diagnose and repair. I'll update when it's done.

 

Now, does anyone have an air starter motor for a Gleniffer lying around in their shed? It's a miniature V4 piston engine I'm led to believe!!

 

Mike

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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If you weren't sure what the connections were, how do you know it doesn't work? :)

 

Coz when I first saw the boat the owner turned the key and the starter motor went "click" instead of rotating! Seemed like a flat battery but battery was 12.3V and we got the same result jump starting from the well charged domestic battery. Owner arranged for his mechanic to visit to mend it. The mechanic checked what he could in the boat then removed it and took it back to his workshop, then found he couldn't dismantle it so he could not repair it. It took a week to get this far. I bought the boat anyway and recovered the motor at the weekend so I could bring it back here and get it repaired myself with a bit more urgency.

 

 

Have you tried it?

 

Not since my six hour round journey to get it back. Even if I'd tried it and it spun (which I didn't), I'd not trust it to continue working once installed back in the boat. Hence my decision to get it checked/fixed by an expert or buy a new/recon one the same.

 

Anyway TVED reckon they should have it fixed by Wednesday :) If it's beyond economical repair they say they have a new one on the shelf I can buy so the boat should be mobile soon whichever way it pans out!

 

Mike

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Coz when I first saw the boat the owner turned the key and the starter motor went "click" instead of rotating! Seemed like a flat battery but battery was 12.3V and we got the same result jump starting from the well charged domestic battery. Owner arranged for his mechanic to visit to mend it. The mechanic checked what he could in the boat then removed it and took it back to his workshop, then found he couldn't dismantle it so he could not repair it. It took a week to get this far. I bought the boat anyway and recovered the motor at the weekend so I could bring it back here and get it repaired myself with a bit more urgency.

 

Not since my six hour round journey to get it back. Even if I'd tried it and it spun (which I didn't), I'd not trust it to continue working once installed back in the boat. Hence my decision to get it checked/fixed by an expert or buy a new/recon one the same.

 

Anyway TVED reckon they should have it fixed by Wednesday :) If it's beyond economical repair they say they have a new one on the shelf I can buy so the boat should be mobile soon whichever way it pans out!

 

Mike

 

Ah, nay worries then - was just a thought!

 

Don't blame you for wanting something you can trust - and rather handy they've got one on the shelf. :)

 

Took a while to find a sensibly priced outright starter for the ST2/SR3 last year, when I didn't have an exchange unit. :)

 

PC

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Mike -

I recall a tug (Stwart & Lloyds style) for sale on ComedyBay a year or so back with a Gleniffer engine.

 

Would that be the good ship Reginald ?

 

Next time I'm oop north I'll snap the air start motor. IIRC the reservoir was under the bed !

 

and as Esk says below, an electric starter ought to be 24V (ours is). Theres no way 12V would have enough grunt.

Edited by jake_crew
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Mike....I know you said you put 12.3 volts to the starter, is it actually a 12v unit? (worth making sure, should be stamped on the body)

Forget the type of this unit, but it's not an Axial. In an Axial the whole armature moves (Axially) so it doesn't need a Bendix style arrangment.

 

I *think* I have a similar working unit, if you're stuck, but definately 24v.

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Mike....I know you said you put 12.3 volts to the starter, is it actually a 12v unit? (worth making sure, should be stamped on the body)

Forget the type of this unit, but it's not an Axial. In an Axial the whole armature moves (Axially) so it doesn't need a Bendix style arrangment.

 

I *think* I have a similar working unit, if you're stuck, but definately 24v.

 

 

Hmmm interesting point! If it's a 24V motor that would explain the 'clunk' instead of loads of spinning when fed with 12.3v. When I measured the voltage feed at 12.3v maybe I was mislead into thinking the the motor was 12v when in actual fact the batteries were badly discharged and should have been delivering 24v after all. DOH!

 

I'm fairly sure it's 12v though. The starter motor repair peeps said it was 12v when they read the numbers on the side of it. I'll find out tomorrow when the repairers call me with a report on what they've done to fix it.

 

Thanks for the offer of a *similar* unit. I may yet take you up on that if the repair peeps bail out. 24v would be no great problem to arrange as there are three batteries in the boat.

 

Mike

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Mike -

I recall a tug (Stwart & Lloyds style) for sale on ComedyBay a year or so back with a Gleniffer engine.

 

Would that be the good ship Reginald ?

 

 

I dunno, seems a bit of a coincidence though. I don't suppose there are all that many S&L style tugs with Gleniffer engines buzzing around the network...

 

 

 

Next time I'm oop north I'll snap the air start motor.

 

Do what, mate? Are you implying you have an air starter for a Gleniffer?! Oh I see, you mean take a photo of yours! Yes please! Cheers!

 

 

 

IIRC the reservoir was under the bed !

 

and as Esk says below, an electric starter ought to be 24V (ours is). Theres no way 12V would have enough grunt.

 

 

I dunno. Vendor says all the air gear was removed but I'll check.

 

Well in some ways I hope it isn't a case of 24v starter connected to 12.3v worth of flat 24v battery. Vendor says the starter spun the engine over with great enthusiasm so I have a horrible feeling you are right... DOH! (As I said before.)

 

Mike

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Right, a quick update:

 

Spent yesterday fitting the reconditioned starter motor. It IS 12v and, as the vendor assured me, it spins the engine up with ease! In fact it spins the engine so fast that when I release the key from the 'start' position the engine speed falls and tails off as though it is going to stall, but then it gets down to tickover speed and the governor starts injecting and it ticks over beautifully. Sounds very Gardner-like.

 

There were multiple gasket leaks and a stripped stud on the water pump - frost damage but I've fixed those now. Hopefully there are no more nasty frost-damage surprises to find.

 

Next is a new alternator then I can go for a test run...

 

Mike

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  • 1 month later...

Ok so the engine runs nicely now, quite smokey but the smoke rings it blows are charming and with a clean exhaust we wouldn't be able to see them, so that's ok :)

 

Trouble is, the transmission is not ok. It's a mechanical box with 1:1 drive ahead and a set of crown wheels to give reverse. We've used the boat for about ten or fifteen hours now and the box has always been rather clunky to engage and disengage gears, and has been getting worse. Yesterday however, it jammed in reverse whilst winding. After some investigation we gave up trying to fix it and were very kindly given a three mile tow (backwards) to the mooring by another forum member (Jonny). Many thanks Jonny!

 

Anyway back to the gearbox. No amount of kicking and thumping of the gearchange lever will make it disengage so I removed the access cover to look inside. No oil. Hmmmm.....

 

There is a yoke attached to the gear change lever inside which obviously slides a large casting along a shaft in the centre of the gearbox, but the casting no longer slides. N0 amount of persuasion using mooring pins as levers etc results in any movement whatsoever, so now I'm stumped. I think I have to take the box off and dismantle it back home on the kitchen table. OR find someone to do it for me. Or just have a PRM fitted instead. Just writing to clarify my thoughts really.

 

I think I'll ring Seaward Engineering next (as Gleniffer were taken over by Bergius) to see if they know anything about Gleniffers, or better, have a spare DB2 transmission lying around....

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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Ok so the engine runs nicely now, quite smokey but the smoke rings it blows are charming and with a clean exhaust we wouldn't be able to see them, so that's ok :)

 

Trouble is, the transmission is not ok. It's a mechanical box with 1:1 drive ahead and a set of crown wheels to give reverse. We've used the boat for about ten or fifteen hours now and the box has always been rather clunky to engage and disengage gears, and has been getting worse. Yesterday however, it jammed in reverse whilst winding. After some investigation we gave up trying to fix it and were very kindly given a three mile tow (backwards) to the mooring by another forum member (Jonny). Many thanks Jonny!

 

Anyway back to the gearbox. No amount of kicking and thumping of the gearchange lever will make it disengage so I removed the access cover to look inside. No oil. Hmmmm.....

 

There is a yoke attached to the gear change lever inside which obviously slides a large casting along a shaft in the centre of the gearbox, but the casting no longer slides. N0 amount of persuasion using mooring pins as levers etc results in any movement whatsoever, so now I'm stumped. I think I have to take the box off and dismantle it back home on the kitchen table. OR find someone to do it for me. Or just have a PRM fitted instead. Just writing to clarify my thoughts really.

 

I think I'll ring Seaward Engineering next (as Gleniffer were taken over by Bergius) to see if they know anything about Gleniffers, or better, have a spare DB2 transmission lying around....

 

I might have a Gleniffer gearbox manual somewhere. Definitely had one once, I'll start a hunt later.

Could be a cone clutch jammed in engagement? The Bruntons boxes as used on Nationals & RNs are a bit prone to this, and they have arrangements for dealing with it.

 

Tim

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I think I'll ring Seaward Engineering next (as Gleniffer were taken over by Bergius) to see if they know anything about Gleniffers, or better, have a spare DB2 transmission lying around....

 

Mike, I wouldn't ask Seawards "if they know anything about Gleniffers" if I were you! You might hear some new Glaswegian words you haven't heard before!

 

Andy Bruce was asked to take charge of the rebuild of both DC 8 engines in the ex London Fire Brigade's fire boat the Massey Shaw. He probably does know a few things about them!

 

Richard

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Mike, I wouldn't ask Seawards "if they know anything about Gleniffers" if I were you! You might hear some new Glaswegian words you haven't heard before!

 

Andy Bruce was asked to take charge of the rebuild of both DC 8 engines in the ex London Fire Brigade's fire boat the Massey Shaw. He probably does know a few things about them!

 

Richard

 

 

Ah no, I scrolled back and reviewed your post dated 28th May 2011 prior to calling so thanks to you I was aware of Andy's interest in them, and I phrased it rather differently :) He commented that this engine is extremely rare. So rare that he only knows of one other. (Bit like my K1 then!)

 

Anyway I explained the problem but Andy thought there were several different Gleniffer boxes supplied with the DB2 so he couldn't really comment without knowing which box mine has. He has a few spares for all but the was nothing inside any of them that couldn't be manufactured from scratch if necessary. He suggested I remove the box, crate it up and send it to him for rebuilding.

 

It really isn't obvious how the box is connected to the engine (no conventional flange with bolts) so he suggested I email him some photos to identify it, then he can advise how to remove it.

 

Once I get the box off I'm rather inclined to take it up in my van and see if he can fix it while I wait, lol!

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I might have a Gleniffer gearbox manual somewhere. Definitely had one once, I'll start a hunt later.

Could be a cone clutch jammed in engagement? The Bruntons boxes as used on Nationals & RNs are a bit prone to this, and they have arrangements for dealing with it.

 

Tim

 

 

That could be extremely useful if you have! I have the engine manual but no mention of the gearbox in any of it.

 

A gearbox bod had a look at it yesterday and he thought it was not a cone-clutch type of gearbox. He also said he'd never seen a gearbox designed in such a weird way so it might possibly yet have cone clutches out of view from the inspection panel.

 

It looks exactly like the diagram on Mike Skyner's site though, but with the pedestal and wheel removed from the top

 

http://www.sky-net.org.uk/gleniffer/dbseries/inst/index.html

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Mike - do you have a manual for the engine ? and gearbox ?

 

We took the 'box off ours in the Winter and it doesn't split like a Ford Escort !

 

If not PM me your address.

 

It may take a week or so as the manual is near York and I'm in Herts.

 

If it's more urgent, I have the book for model RC and RCR boxes in front of me, may be bigger box than yours but I imagine the principles are the same.

 

Tim

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Mike - do you have a manual for the engine ? and gearbox ?

 

We took the 'box off ours in the Winter and it doesn't split like a Ford Escort !

 

If not PM me your address.

 

It may take a week or so as the manual is near York and I'm in Herts.

 

 

Hi Colin,

 

Yes I can see it isn't straightforward! My guess is I need to split the box at the joint just forward of the centre, remove the back section and this will reveal more studs/bolts holding the front part of the box onto the engine. Is that about right or is it more complicated than that?

 

I have manual and parts list for the engine but not the gearbox so any documantation you have for gearbox would be great, thanks. I'll PM you my address.

 

If I drive up to Hertfordshire would it be possible to visit and see your gearbox perhaps, please? (and buy you a pint obviously :) ) Or is it in York with the paperwork?!

 

Cheers, Mike

 

If it's more urgent, I have the book for model RC and RCR boxes in front of me, may be bigger box than yours but I imagine the principles are the same.

 

Tim

 

Hi Tim,

 

It's only urgent in that the boat cannot be used until I get this fixed.... so yes, urgent!

 

Do either of the books you have show a transmission made in two sections with a flange joint just forward of the middle - as shown in this diagram on Mike Skyner's site: http://www.sky-net.org.uk/gleniffer/dbseries/inst/index.html

 

If so, do they show how to separate the forward section/housing of the transmission (or the whole lot) from the engine? There are no visible bolts or fixings on mine.

 

Cheers, Mike

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Hi Tim,

 

It's only urgent in that the boat cannot be used until I get this fixed.... so yes, urgent!

 

Do either of the books you have show a transmission made in two sections with a flange joint just forward of the middle - as shown in this diagram on Mike Skyner's site: http://www.sky-net.org.uk/gleniffer/dbseries/inst/index.html

 

If so, do they show how to separate the forward section/housing of the transmission (or the whole lot) from the engine? There are no visible bolts or fixings on mine.

 

Cheers, Mike

 

Mike

 

Yes

 

If you PM me your email address, I'll scan a couple of relevant pages & send them to you.

 

Tim

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