Narrowboats at sea

[FadeToScarlet]

Don't you worry mate.

 

I'll keep you safe going round Trent Falls

 

 

You could give him a tow when his "proper" engine runs out of diesel

[mrsmelly]

You could give him a tow when his "proper" engine runs out of diesel

 

:P

[Laurence Hogg]

There has been a lot talked about the wisdom of taking a narrowboat to sea, however, putting aside any specially designed and constructed sea going narrow beamed boats, a leisure narrowboat is not suitable for sea work!! As I said before, anything that floats can be taken to sea but that doesn't make it suitable.

 

What needs to be remembered is that Laurence Hogg, Chris Coburn etc, are expedient people who made very careful preparations, had suitable safety equipment and contingency plans in the event of the unexpected. They decided to stretch the normal boundaries of narrowboating in a carefully planned way, which was not always without it's setbacks.

 

The danger comes when inexperienced boaters or those with little understanding of the dangers, see the exploits of boats like 'Progress' as evidence of the safety of a narrrowboat at sea, buy a road map and head blithely offshore. Even suitable seagoing boats are a danger to those who are reckless or unwilling to listen and learn. Every year we see reports highlighting the sheer ignorance and stupidity of people who think that any boat is suitable for any waters.

 

I applaud those who tackle new adventures with wisdom and care, but let's not underestimate the potential dangers.

 

Roger

 

Roger makes some very good points here, certainly if you set out with a lightly drafted top heavy narrowboat then you will almost certainly have trouble. Chris and I spent weeks waiting for weather to be right (6 weeks in Peterborough Yacht club before going out to the Wash was the longest wait!) and the boat is very well equipped, on board are all necessary emergency equipment, we had several VHF units, a self inflating liferaft, very long warps etc. The boat too is akin to a half loaded narrowboat so the draft at the bow is considerable, all the windows and vents are sealable and in the case of the vents are a special design. There are two fuel supplies one aft aone forward both independant. The stern doors are watertight when closed as is the hatch, the bow has a reinforced add on deck with a splash board which covers the entire front bulhead, the front well deck has extra large scuppers to dispose of any water quickly. There are numerous other mods, mainly minor and internal. There were "exciting" moments during the voyages, ie going through a wave instead of over it!! but the boat coped very well.

Unless your boat is equipped in a similar way and has a good draft then dont consider going out offshore. Imagine what would happen if a wave came down the roof and took of the flower baskets and roof luggage so many boats sport and they hit the steerer, the sea demands respect!

Edited May 25, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[saltysplash]

One point no-one has raised is the lack of an auxiliary power unit on a narrowboat, and the difficulty of fitting one. If you are going to sea it's case of "what if...?" ie if your engine fails what are you going to do? You might find yourself in a mayday situation, but it's worth pointing out that engine failure in itself does not automatically put you in "grave and imminent danger" and calling for assistance could result in a hefty charge from whoever comes to you aid. (I belive the RNLI have started charging for this now??)

 

I've often thought it would be possible to design a boat that would be safe/practical for coastal passages and could cruise the narrow canals. It would probably look a bit like a scaled down submarine and would have similarly compromised internal space. (It's probably been done and never caught on.)

 

 

There are hundreds of single engined sea boats out there with no other means of propulsion. Its not just a narrowboat thing.

 

Thinking about it, possibly the majority of the fishing fleet is single engined,

[canaldrifter]

 

 

Thinking about it, possibly the majority of the fishing fleet is single engined,

 

But seldom totally alone?

 

Tone

[carlt]

But seldom totally alone?

 

Like all boats, around the British Coast.

 

It's like Braunston, during the Historic Boat Show, off the Suffolk/Essex coast, on a sunny weekend.

[mykaskin]

Going out into the sea is possible in a narrowboat, but just remember that you don't need to go offshore to get some rough water:

 

(note the prop ventilating)

 

It was actually calmer on the Humber that day - we know because we'd just crossed it from Hull.

 

and on another occasion from outside the boat:

 

 

While it looks quite bad, in a properly prepared boat which has been well proven (i.e. you know the engine and fuel systems are capable) you can cope with quite bad weather. It tends to be the people who give up first...

 

Mike

Edited May 26, 2011 by mykaskin

[ymu]

Thanks for welcome. I've got a sailing weekender which we often de-rig & canal cruise. We are considering buying a NB - one big consideration is whether we could get it to, for example, Chichester harbour for, say, the summer.

 

I've read Narrow dog to Carcasonne, etc, and understand I'd need to cover the cratch, protect windows, maybe fit washboards - carry VHF, anchor, liferaft, etc etc, and I do a fair bit of sea sailing.

Why get a narrowboat if you want to go to sea regularly? The only real downside of a widebeam (apart from purchase and some ongoing costs) is that it can't get from north to south. But a sea-going widebeam can get pretty much everywhere. You lose a few narrow canals down south, but not much really - you still have the GU, K&A and Thames covering the area.

 

It's what we'll get eventually, I think. A barge designed for use on lumpy water so we can go around the coast and nip across the channel. Pricier than a narrowboat, but probably not much once you've sea-proofed the narrowboat - and much cheaper if you can't insure the NB and it sinks.

 

The insurance will cost a bomb too. It would have to for anyone to be willing to offer it to you. The track record of NBs at sea would make any loss adjuster think very carefully.

Edited May 27, 2011 by ymu

[ymu]

With my experience off offshore sailing and narrowboating, what I would insist upon.

Every orifice and skin fitting plugged with the exeption of the exhaust.

Exhaust and inlet "schnorkeled" to be well clear of any incoming sea.

Lifejackets all round and "dead mans switch" for steerer.

Liferaft.

Jury rigged mast with radar reflector and masthead light.

VHF.

Properly calibrated compass (steel boat).

Fully secured deckboards.

Reinforcement to butress windows against being blown in.

The RNLI or royal navy, either, don't want to be fussy.

 

I salute you, Sir!

 

Very good.

[ymu]

Hi Tone

 

I respect your view what were you in the Andrew an officer ? a greenie/stoker ? I was a dabtoe and have done much sailing and used 27 ft whalers at sea in several places and conditions and we will have to beg to differ, where you shore based

I have a well built narrowboat but even with mods it well never go coastal in my ownership, just as an after thought what do insurance companys think of coastal use ? do they put the premium up ? I dont know but I bet they do if people are truthfull and policies dont go up unless there are greater risks involved.

 

Cheers

 

Tim ( ex RN )

On insurance, the insurance industry only really worked out how to assess risks in the 1990s after it had its own global meltdown. It's why almost no insurance companies have gone under since the credit crunch - AIG is the only big one, I think. They were forced to set their house in order a decade ago, much as the Asian banks had to with the Asian financial crisis of the 1990s - they've also fared well compared to our irresponsible lot.

 

Which means any information about insurability needs to be checked up front. Knowing that it was insurable in the 1990s when Lloyds names didn't know they could lose as well as win is not relevant any more. They actually assess risk these days.

 

Those who do it regularly now would be good people to ask, but I'm guessing that most of them aren't insured against all possible disasters, just the legal minimums and the rest at their own risk. It'd certainly be cheaper to do it at your own risk, if you think you know better than most because the actuaries aren't going to put your opinion of your skills into their model.

Edited May 27, 2011 by ymu

[Naughty Cal]

My insurance covers me for 'Inland non-tidal waters of the UK extended to include tidal access', which is a pretty broad church. (Nautical Insurance Services Ltd).

 

 

Tone

 

It seems a pretty broad "church" until you actually read the small print. The Humber is classed as the sea as are all the other major estuaries in the UK. So venture onto the Humber and get into trouble and you will find that you are uninsured.

 

My insurance covers me for 'Inland non-tidal waters of the UK extended to include tidal access', which is a pretty broad church. (Nautical Insurance Services Ltd).

 

 

Tone

 

It seems a pretty broad "church" until you actually read the small print. The Humber is classed as the sea as are all the other major estuaries in the UK. So venture onto the Humber and get into trouble and you will find that you are uninsured.

[Dalesman]

It seems a pretty broad "church" until you actually read the small print. The Humber is classed as the sea as are all the other major estuaries in the UK. So venture onto the Humber and get into trouble and you will find that you are uninsured.

 

 

 

It seems a pretty broad "church" until you actually read the small print. The Humber is classed as the sea as are all the other major estuaries in the UK. So venture onto the Humber and get into trouble and you will find that you are uninsured.

The River Humber is not classed as the sea but is Category C (Tidal rivers and estuaries where the significant wave height could not be expected to exceed 1.2 metres at any time)The Trent is also Cat C to Cromwell lock, The Mersey & Seven are also Cat C waterways according to the MCA .

[ditchcrawler]

The River Humber is not classed as the sea but is Category C (Tidal rivers and estuaries where the significant wave height could not be expected to exceed 1.2 metres at any time)The Trent is also Cat C to Cromwell lock, The Mersey & Seven are also Cat C waterways according to the MCA .

Its the insurance company that gives you cover not the MCA what do they class the Humber as?

[canaldrifter]

It seems a pretty broad "church" until you actually read the small print. The Humber is classed as the sea as are all the other major estuaries in the UK. So venture onto the Humber and get into trouble and you will find that you are uninsured.

 

 

 

It seems a pretty broad "church" until you actually read the small print. The Humber is classed as the sea as are all the other major estuaries in the UK. So venture onto the Humber and get into trouble and you will find that you are uninsured.

 

This is misinformation.

 

I've checked. I am insured for the Humber as it gives tidal access to the River Hull and the Driffield canal as well as the Ancholme. I am also insured for the tidal Thames above the barrage, and for the Ribble link. Certain safety requirements must be fulfilled.

 

Tone

 

Edited to add:

 

I am also covered for Trent End, unlike some inland boating policies.

Edited May 28, 2011 by canaldrifter

[mrsmelly]

This is misinformation.

 

I've checked. I am insured for the Humber as it gives tidal access to the River Hull and the Driffield canal as well as the Ancholme. I am also insured for the tidal Thames above the barrage, and for the Ribble link. Certain safety requirements must be fulfilled.

 

Tone

 

Edited to add:

 

I am also covered for Trent End, unlike some inland boating policies.

 

I concur. I am hopeing to do Trent falls next week and rang my insurance bods to clarify this point and they asked details I said 70 footer going to York ( Its the only way to get there ) and they said yes its covered for tidal access. I have to say tho I thought after the fone call if I was say the usual 57 footer and came a cropper round Trent falls would they wriggle out by saying it was Uneccesary tidal access as I could have gone in at Keadby and out at Selby ? I think I would be making a fone call anyway.

[howardang]

The River Humber is not classed as the sea but is Category C (Tidal rivers and estuaries where the significant wave height could not be expected to exceed 1.2 metres at any time)The Trent is also Cat C to Cromwell lock, The Mersey & Seven are also Cat C waterways according to the MCA .

The Humber certainly can exceed 1.2 metres significant wave height and does so on numerous occasions, certainly on the stretch between Trent Falls and the mouth of the river Hull which would include the bit which allows access to the Ancholme and the Hull. It can be increased further in wind against tide situations and in specific locations such as Hessle Whelps near the Humber Bridge, where overfalls can be dangerous for small craft at times.

Check weather conditions carefully before transiting the river.

 

Cheers

 

Howard

Edited May 28, 2011 by howardang

[blackrose]

This is misinformation.

 

I've checked. I am insured for the Humber as it gives tidal access to the River Hull and the Driffield canal as well as the Ancholme. I am also insured for the tidal Thames above the barrage, and for the Ribble link. Certain safety requirements must be fulfilled.

 

Tone

 

Edited to add:

 

I am also covered for Trent End, unlike some inland boating policies.

 

Yes, most inland insurance policies cover tidal access. It's a pretty poor policy that doesn't.

[canaldrifter]

 

Check weather conditions carefully before transiting the river.

 

Cheers

 

Howard

 

Naturally.

 

Tone

[howardang]

Naturally.

 

Tone

Unfortunately some don't, and especially wind against tide conditions. At least it gives Humber Rescue smething to do

 

Howard

[onionbargee]

It's a good job all those inland boat owners, congregating at Tough's Boatyard, in 1940, didn't take that attitude.

 

Are you telling us that narrowboats, which is what the post is about, went to Dunkirk ! i don't think so

[FadeToScarlet]

Are you telling us that narrowboats, which is what the post is about, went to Dunkirk ! i don't think so

 

There's a legend that one did, I think. Apparently several offered but were declined.

[Laurence Hogg]

There's a legend that one did, I think. Apparently several offered but were declined.

 

Stop talking utter myth, no narrowboats went to Dunkirk, every boat involved is recorded. There was a Ministry of War transport too which requistioned craft, they had a lot of narrowboats on fire duty in London.

The myth possibly evolved from Fellow, Morton & Clayton wide boats being took to Belgium in WW1, one still (poosibly) remains there

[Steilsteven]

I would think that the biggest obstacle to a sea passage to Chichester by narrow boat would be the time factor. It's a long way around the coast and you'd be very lucky indeed to have enough good weather to get you there in one Summer. Having said that, I wouldn't discourage anyone contemplating such an adventure because I think it would be a fantastic thing to do, on a level with climbing Mount Everest,around the World single handed sailing etc.

 

It would be a very boring World if nobody ever did anything because of an ellement of risk.

 

Keith

Edited May 29, 2011 by Steilsteven

[carlt]

Are you telling us that narrowboats, which is what the post is about, went to Dunkirk !

No, that's not what I was telling you.

 

There is a certain spirit that makes some people want to go to sea in wholly inappropriate vessels.

 

Personally I think the expense and effort of preparing a nb, for the voyage, isn't worth it but just dismissing those that do, as mad, isn't really very helpful.

 

My comment was meant to highlight this, whilst having a dig at your offensive signature.

[canaldrifter]

 

There is a certain spirit that makes some people want to go to sea in wholly inappropriate vessels.

 

Y'know........ I think I suffer from that.

 

Tone