Crick show 2011 ~ Who's going to it

[churchward]

Nope, I shan't feed the forums appetite for tittle tattle. I don't think my remarks are damaging. I seriously doubt anyone will not buy a WP boat on my say so and I am expressing my opinion that I won't be. There are plenty of other comments on this forum regarding how unliked a boat manufacturer may be, Hudson bashing seems a bit of a sport round here for instance. It's just that they don't reply.

 

I have offered above to explain to Togger but via PM. I have also offered to remove my statement but since folk want to quote it it will be not be possible for it to be withdrawn by me. In any case I say again I am expressing my opinion on the boat in question specifically and that I won't buy a WP boat generally there are other builders higher up my list.

Edited May 31, 2011 by churchward

[Guest]

I don't think my remarks are damaging.

 

You are joking surely...

 

I guess I should also admit some bias against William Piper boats (for reasons I shan't go into) but I would rather eat dirt than buy one.

[churchward]

Seconded...

 

It's very easy to hide behind veiled criticisms in a public forum unless you you are prepared to stand by them....

 

ETA that should have been thirded,,,

not a veiled criticism at all but a specific critique of the show boat and what I didn't like but a general and very personal view that I am biased to not buying a boat from that builder.

 

You are joking surely...

no

Edited May 31, 2011 by churchward

[alan_fincher]

This boat is based at Heyford Fields and I was visiting there some weeks ago on the day it arrived (the owners previously moored there with another boat) so I had a look around. It does not have a wide top plank which made it internally seem cramped to me, especially the bathroom.

Well what looked very much like it to me came South past Whilton earlier today.

 

It's fake cloth bit certainly doesn't mimic a working boat, (look at that deck board shape, and width at the top).

 

Each to their own,I suppose, but it looked about the most overblown bit f nonsense I have seen in ages!

 

It's not a working boat, chaps - it doesn't vaguely mimic a working boat. Do yourselves a favour - just put a cabin on the next one, as usual. It will look better and be heaps more practical! (And not lose anything like as much of it's initial cost when it's placed on the market in a few months or years time).

[Guest]

no

 

OK so you admit that your remarks are damaging??

[RLWP]

You are joking surely...

 

What's wrong with Churchward having an opinion and expressing it then? As it happens, I don't like the front of Barolo either. For me it sacrifices a useful cockpit area for a large locker I don't want, then has a fake section of 'covered hold' that is too short to convince me. I wouldn't buy one.

 

I can't see that my opinion will have any effect on anyone who would buy one though, and good luck to them

 

Richard

[churchward]

OK so you admit that your remarks are damaging??

no.

 

Well what looked very much like it to me came South past Whilton earlier today.

 

It's fake cloth bit certainly doesn't mimic a working boat, (look at that deck board shape, and width at the top).

 

Each to their own,I suppose, but it looked about the most overblown bit f nonsense I have seen in ages!

 

It's not a working boat, chaps - it doesn't vaguely mimic a working boat. Do yourselves a favour - just put a cabin on the next one, as usual. It will look better and be heaps more practical! (And not lose anything like as much of it's initial cost when it's placed on the market in a few months or years time).

Careful Alan critical comments for a boat like that the thought police will be after you!

[Guest]

What's wrong with Churchward having an opinion and expressing it then? As it happens, I don't like the front of Barolo either. For me it sacrifices a useful cockpit area for a large locker I don't want, then has a fake section of 'covered hold' that is too short to convince me. I wouldn't buy one.

 

I can't see that my opinion will have any effect on anyone who would buy one though, and good luck to them

 

Richard

 

Wake up Richard..I read this as there is more to this than just an issue of personal opinion about a boat appearance...

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

I guess I should also admit some bias against William Piper boats (for reasons I shan't go into) but I would rather eat dirt than buy one.

 

 

Wake up Richard..I read this as there is more to this than just an issue of personal opinion about a boat appearance...

 

I am fully awake, thank you for your concern.

 

I share the same aesthetic opinion as Churchward, so I imagine you are reading something extra into his admitted bias in his post. Would you rather he hid that bias?

 

Richard

[carlt]

I read Chuchward's post as "I don't like the boat but don't take my word for it, I'm biased for personal reasons."

 

If it's any consolation I don't like the boat because the forecabin looks like a home made car roof box, the fake tarped bit looks like a wigwam and the main cabin is ridiculously square.

 

Richard described it as a pastiche boat which I felt was over generous. I'd describe it as a caricature.

 

I have absolutely nothing against the builder by the way and am sure the boat was built to a high standard.

 

I'm sure it is exactly what the buyer wanted (I guess they wouldn't have paraded it at a show, if it wasn't) and I am happy for them.

 

Not my cup of tea at all, though.

Edited May 31, 2011 by carlt

[Guest]

I am fully awake, thank you for your concern.

 

I share the same aesthetic opinion as Churchward, so I imagine you are reading something extra into his admitted bias in his post. Would you rather he hid that bias?

 

Richard

 

Hide it or declare why he holds it...

 

I'm not concerned BTW..

[bemiliromel]

Bard's missus here, and i have to admit that i did think Barollo was a stunning boat made by a builder who made time for everyone that went aboard. If it wasn't 'your cup of tea' then thats ok but the guys just had a fitting tribute paid to him for all the hard work put into his latest boat so i say ' well done all and keep it up. looking forward to next year already.'

[starman]

For the record I don't like the mock under-canvas front and 'fore-cabin' of the show boat at all though I guess they're what the customer wanted. What I objected to were the wider implications of the remark "...some bias against William Piper Narrowboats (for reasons that I won't go into)and would rather eat dirt than buy one".

When a guy earns his living by building maybe just two or three boats a year and would be sorely affected by the loss of just a single order you have to be pretty careful making public remarks that can be misunderstood in this way - if that's what I and others have done.

I'm not suggesting censorship, just a bit of awareness of what effect remarks like this can have. There are plenty of boats I don't like and wouldn't want to buy but generally I'd be perfectly happy to explain why.

[robdalej]

While we were having a walk arond at Crick one boat that stood out for us was the William Piper boat ,the only thing that was not to my taste were the storage lockers on the bow but ,surely, that had been requested by the customer? and the builder only does what the customer requires. Another one that stood out to us was Navigation Narrowboats to me that boat really seemed to stand out, but at 130k would be way out of most peoples league, I would suspect.

[alan_fincher]

I read Chuchward's post as "I don't like the boat but don't take my word for it, I'm biased for personal reasons."

 

If it's any consolation I don't like the boat because the forecabin looks like a home made car roof box, the fake tarped bit looks like a wigwam and the main cabin is ridiculously square.

 

Richard described it as a pastiche boat which I felt was over generous. I'd describe it as a caricature.

 

I have absolutely nothing against the builder by the way and am sure the boat was built to a high standard.

 

I'm sure it is exactly what the buyer wanted (I guess they wouldn't have paraded it at a show, if it wasn't) and I am happy for them.

 

Not my cup of tea at all, though.

 

I think both you and Richard are being over-generous.

 

What they have done with the lump and faked tarp area at the front has to be one of the ugliest of the genre ever.

 

(All in my own personal opinion, only).

 

If these are the winning boats, I realise why I have never felt a jot of interest in visiting an event like Crick!

 

I am not making any comments about build quality of this or any other boat exhibited. My viewpoint is a purely aesthetic one.

 

I'm really intrigued to see what will be resale value once these more extreme examples make it onto the brokers list, (and more often than not, they quickly do!).

[RLWP]

The Braidbar site was down yesterday, so I haven't found a picture of their boat yet

 

Richard

[Guest]

When a guy earns his living by building maybe just two or three boats a year and would be sorely affected by the loss of just a single order you have to be pretty careful making public remarks that can be misunderstood in this way - if that's what I and others have done.

 

Totally agree -

 

and also for the record I don't particularly like the boat either. Externally (I didn't visit it) it looked no better in the flesh than it does in the pics. on here. It looks as daft to me as the Steve Hudson boat does and is too pretentious.

 

I don't think my opinion about the aesthetics of such a boat will put people off buying one though, there is clearly a market for them and good luck to the people who build and buy them, it's just I will not be one of them.

[churchward]

Totally agree -

 

and also for the record I don't particularly like the boat either. Externally (I didn't visit it) it looked no better in the flesh than it does in the pics. on here. It looks as daft to me as the Steve Hudson boat does and is too pretentious.

 

I don't think my opinion about the aesthetics of such a boat will put people off buying one though, there is clearly a market for them and good luck to the people who build and buy them, it's just I will not be one of them.

So, folk saying they don't like it and it's daft isn't damaging at all but my comment is. Ho hum that's your view I guess.

 

As I have said before I won't explain myself further here. I have PM'd Tigger and we have exchanged notes. So I am happy to explain why just not to you all on the forum. She has been very gracious in understanding my view as explained to her and that is that. I hope there is more like her at the company.

Edited June 1, 2011 by churchward

[Guest]

So, folk saying they don't like it and it's daft isn't damaging at all but my comment is. Ho hum that's your view I guess.

 

As I have said before I won't explain myself further here. I have PM'd Tigger and we have exchanged notes. So I am happy to explain why just not to you all on the forum. She has been very gracious in understanding my view as explained to her and that is that. I hope there is more like her at the company.

 

Curious to know why you just quoted my comment? - there are others on here who concur.

 

Yes it is my view (and others I guess) that expressing an opinion about the appearance of a particular boat is not at all damaging - as I have said there is clearly a market for such a peculiar looking boat and others of similar ilk.

 

People on here often make disparaging and unfavourable comments about 'Clonecraft' like ours particularly when they are semi trad and god forbid also fitted with a Pram Hood . It didn't for one minute stop me buying just such a craft - I'm big enough and old enough to form my own opinion on what sort of boat I want to own. As are the buyers of the boat in question.

 

You comment was completely different because it implies something disparaging about the company itself or somebody within it, that is a completely different matter and actually has no relevance to the aesthetics of the boat at all and if you were not prepared to expand and stand by it on it in a public forum you should not have referred to it in the fleeting way you did.

 

This is an industry where reputation is 'all' and these companies work hard to build an maintain them, it doesn't need someone to come on here and say 'I have my reasons which I'm not going to divulge on here but I would eat dirt before I would buy a boat from so and so boat builders" - I paraphrase obviously but that is in essence what you said.

[churchward]

Curious to know why you just quoted my comment? - there are others on here who concur.

 

Yes it is my view (and others I guess) that expressing an opinion about the appearance of a particular boat is not at all damaging - as I have said there is clearly a market for such a peculiar looking boat and others of similar ilk.

 

People on here often make disparaging and unfavourable comments about 'Clonecraft' like ours particularly when they are semi trad and god forbid also fitted with a Pram Hood . It didn't for one minute stop me buying just such a craft - I'm big enough and old enough to form my own opinion on what sort of boat I want to own. As are the buyers of the boat in question.

 

You comment was completely different because it implies something disparaging about the company itself or somebody within it, that is a completely different matter and actually has no relevance to the aesthetics of the boat at all and if you were not prepared to expand and stand by it on it in a public forum you should not have referred to it in the fleeting way you did.

 

This is an industry where reputation is 'all' and these companies work hard to build an maintain them, it doesn't need someone to come on here and say 'I have my reasons which I'm not going to divulge on here but I would eat dirt before I would buy a boat from so and so boat builders" - I paraphrase obviously but that is in essence what you said.

I shan't be drawn further on the subject. It is between Tiggers and I. My point entirely is that everyone is big enough and old enough to make up their own minds and do not need to take any notice of my view either. I am prepared to stand by my reasons just not make them public.

 

What you say smacks of double standards to me. I quoted you because it was the one above me and somewhat tiresome to gather all the other quotes.

[Guest]

I shan't be drawn further on the subject. It is between Tiggers and I. My point entirely is that everyone is big enough and old enough to make up their own minds and do not need to take any notice of my view either. I am prepared to stand by my reasons just not make them public.

 

What you say smacks of double standards to me. I quoted you because it was the one above me and somewhat tiresome to gather all the other quotes.

 

It is patently obvious it is completely different,

 

I would argue your view and the potential (and still unknown) reasons for it are much more relevant to someone considering laying out £150K on a boat, certainly more so than

"a few folk on Canal World might not like the look of it."

 

People will now fill in the 'gaps' is my point, and that is unfair on the builder in question.

Edited June 1, 2011 by MJG

[RLWP]

It is patently obvious it is completely different,

 

I would argue your view and the potential (and still unknown) reasons for it are much more relevant to someone considering laying out £150K on a boat, certainly more so than

"a few folk on Canal World might not like the look of it."

 

People will now fill in the 'gaps' is my point, and that is unfair on the builder in question.

 

As he has openly declared his bias, and discussed this with the boat builders, and they haven't asked to have his comment retracted, why are you still chasing this Martin?

 

Richard

[churchward]

It is patently obvious it is completely different,

 

I would argue your view and the potential (and still unknown) reasons for it are much more relevant to someone considering laying out £150K on a boat, certainly more so than

"a few folk on Canal World might not like the look of it."

 

People will now fill in the 'gaps' is my point, and that is unfair on the builder in question.

I will tell you ONE MORE TIME. I will not explain the reasons for my comment on here, live with it.

 

Tigger is happy with my explanation to her and I am happy with her response to me. She understands the position and that is all that matters to me.

[robdalej]

Well what looked very much like it to me came South past Whilton earlier today.

 

It's fake cloth bit certainly doesn't mimic a working boat, (look at that deck board shape, and width at the top).

 

Each to their own,I suppose, but it looked about the most overblown bit f nonsense I have seen in ages!

 

It's not a working boat, chaps - it doesn't vaguely mimic a working boat. Do yourselves a favour - just put a cabin on the next one, as usual. It will look better and be heaps more practical! (And not lose anything like as much of it's initial cost when it's placed on the market in a few months or years time).

You could be right regarding resale value , whilst we were down at the show we went to Braunston and had a look at Dover, it looks quite tired . paint peeling off the handrails, broken back hatch, I cetainly would not contemplate spending that amount of money on it, especially as there was an immaculate 70 ft next to it for 46k

[Guest]

I will tell you ONE MORE TIME. I will not explain the reasons for my comment on here, live with it.

 

Tigger is happy with my explanation to her and I am happy with her response to me. She understands the position and that is all that matters to me.

 

Why are you shouting?

 

I don't actually want to know the reason??? - I'm actually not interested, just a simple acknowledgement that the different potential impact on the builders between what I and others did in expressing an opinion on the boats appearance and you intimating there was something 'dodgy' about the builder would have sufficed.

 

As he has openly declared his bias, and discussed this with the boat builders, and they haven't asked to have his comment retracted, why are you still chasing this Martin?

 

Richard

 

Please see above.

Edited June 1, 2011 by MJG