Wilsons of Kinver - merged topic

[cotswoldsman]

Not necessarily. Butcher Woods will ensure, if it's at all possible, that all creditors get paid in full even if it may take some time.

 

As Sue says, we shouldn't pre-judge.

 

Tony

 

Butchers will ensure that the assets that are left will be auctioned off. If they had enough to pay creditors then the creditors would not have filed for liquidation. Also in the meantime the creditors have to cover the lack of cash flow.

[cotswoldsman]

OK so just to put this Wilsons the good guys thing to rest I have paid my £1 to Companies House to get the Statement of Affairs dated 19 My 2011 I am unable to cut and paste as that is not allowed but if you do not believe me then pay the £1

 

The figures show estimated total assets estimated after auction £62,259

Total Liabilities £333,905

Total Liability after asset sale £271,646

 

 

Sue while you are busy defending this great company employees are owed £77,069 in wages and redundancy.

The smallest trade creditor is £30.12 and the largest single trade creditor is £20,399

HM Revenue is £185,761 (That would pay quite a few nurses and teachers salaries and pensions)

 

All I can say is if you want keep defending Wilsons without the facts please carry on!!!!!!!!!!

Edited June 22, 2011 by cotswoldsman

[cotswoldsman]

Copy of post on other thread.......

 

OK so just to put this Wilsons the good guys thing to rest I have paid my £1 to Companies House to get the Statement of Affairs dated 19 My 2011 I am unable to cut and paste as that is not allowed but if you do not believe me then pay the £1

 

The figures show estimated total assets estimated after auction £62,259

Total Liabilities £333,905

Total Liability after asset sale £271,646

 

 

Sue while you are busy defending this great company employees are owed £77,069 in wages and redundancy.

The smallest trade creditor is £30.12 and the largest single trade creditor is £20,399

HM Revenue is £185,761 (That would pay quite a few nurses and teachers salaries and pensions)

 

All I can say is if you want keep defending Wilsons without the facts please carry on!!!!!!!!!!

[cotswoldsman]

 

Not all companies are baddies, though some are of course, but as Sue says, we shouldn't assume a course of action that we don't know.

 

Do they qualify for the list of baddies based on the facts????

 

Have you evidence that they don't pay their creditors? They may have to wait but some do pay their debts. I know others don't but it is unsafe to generalise.

Sue

 

Sue do the above figures help in my evidence?

[Gibbo]

Not necessarily. Butcher Woods will ensure, if it's at all possible, that all creditors get paid in full even if it may take some time.

 

In my experience what Butcher Woods will ensure is that the amount raised by selling off the assets will be exactly the same as Butcher Woods' "fee" and the creditors will get f*ck all. As usual.

[sueb]

OK so just to put this Wilsons the good guys thing to rest I have paid my £1 to Companies House to get the Statement of Affairs dated 19 My 2011 I am unable to cut and paste as that is not allowed but if you do not believe me then pay the £1

 

The figures show estimated total assets estimated after auction £62,259

Total Liabilities £333,905

Total Liability after asset sale £271,646

 

 

Sue while you are busy defending this great company employees are owed £77,069 in wages and redundancy.

The smallest trade creditor is £30.12 and the largest single trade creditor is £20,399

HM Revenue is £185,761 (That would pay quite a few nurses and teachers salaries and pensions)

 

All I can say is if you want keep defending Wilsons without the facts please carry on!!!!!!!!!!

As I have already mentioned - when this happened to a friend of mine he made sure that all his debts were repaid, although he didn't have to. It took him several years and yes people had to wait but they did get repaid. Whether this will happen in this case I don't know.

Sue

[cotswoldsman]

In my experience what Butcher Woods will ensure is that the amount raised by selling off the assets will be exactly the same as Butcher Woods' "fee" and the creditors will get f*ck all. As usual.

 

gibbo once again I do find myself agreeing with you

I bought many trucks from them at auction for next to nothing

 

As I have already mentioned - when this happened to a friend of mine he made sure that all his debts were repaid, although he didn't have to. It took him several years and yes people had to wait but they did get repaid. Whether this will happen in this case I don't know.

Sue

 

Must be very pleasant in your world, is the sun shinning today in that lovely world????

[carlt]

Because they make a very good product, provide excellent after sales care, foster great customer loyalty and keep reinventing their company because they are incompetent business folk, I am led to believe that they would make excellent employees for a firm that doesn't leave its creditors in the lurch.

 

Regardless of how wonderful their product is or what nice people they are, if they fold their company, rather than pay their debts, and form a new company to start the whole process again, they shouldn't be trading.

[Nightwatch]

I have recently purchased a new cratch cover for the boat. During the 'costing' process we contacted Wilsons a number of times and to be honest was not at all happy with the response times and indeed the cost. This was 18 months to 2 years ago so maybe they were on the downturn then.

 

I personally got the impression of arrogance and superiority from the staff I spoke to, this also influanced my decision to go to A J Canopies at Braunston. A company that seem to appreciate your custom.

 

If all that John writes is correct, I have no reason to doubt, then the situation with Wilsons, still trading with waiting creditors, is, in my view unacceptable. However I do not know if 'arrangements' have been made with these creditors to clear the debts.

 

Morally wrong. But the facility is available to companies in similar situations.

 

Martyn ETA. Carl slipped in his post before mine. makes no difference to my post however.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Nightwatch

[cotswoldsman]

If all that John writes is correct, I have no reason to doubt, then the situation with Wilsons, still trading with waiting creditors, is, in my view unacceptable. However I do not know if 'arrangements' have been made with these creditors to clear the debts.

 

Morally wrong. But the facility is available to companies in similar situations.

 

Martyn ETA. Carl slipped in his post before mine. makes no difference to my post however.

 

Sorry Martyn but as you might gather I feel very strongly about this. Wilsons is just an example of how weak company law is in this country. It is illegal to come to a private agreement with creditors after a liquidation.

 

Edited to add it is also illegal to come to an agreement before liquidation.

Edited June 22, 2011 by cotswoldsman

[Nightwatch]

Sorry Martyn but as you might gather I feel very strongly about this. Wilsons is just an example of how weak company law is in this country. It is illegal to come to a private agreement with creditors after a liquidation.

Didn't realise that John, thanks. I was just trying to reduce the risk of flack from various quarters.

 

I once worked for a company in the plastics industry. A customer owed them £'000's and went down. Started up again with '&Sons' in the name and had the gall to call to place an order and ask for credit. I know this goes on in business but it shouldn't be allowed.

 

Martyn

[sueb]

gibbo once again I do find myself agreeing with you

I bought many trucks from them at auction for next to nothing

 

 

 

Must be very pleasant in your world, is the sun shinning today in that lovely world????

Since you ask - my grandson has regurgitated and I now have wet pants.

Sue

[cotswoldsman]

Didn't realise that John, thanks. I was just trying to reduce the risk of flack from various quarters.

 

I once worked for a company in the plastics industry. A customer owed them £'000's and went down. Started up again with '&Sons' in the name and had the gall to call to place an order and ask for credit. I know this goes on in business but it shouldn't be allowed.

 

Martyn

 

What really makes me angry is the £77,000 owed to employees in wages and redundancy, the government meaning you and me will pay the statuary redundancy but not the wages owed and things like holiday pay.

 

Since you ask - my grandson has regurgitated and I now have wet pants.

Sue

 

Yes guess the employees at Wilsons might also have had wet pants.

[dor]

I find it remarkable that in a relatively small environment such as the canal community, with its well-renowned towpath telegraph, that Wilsons can carry on the way they do.

[alan_fincher]

I find it remarkable that in a relatively small environment such as the canal community, with its well-renowned towpath telegraph, that Wilsons can carry on the way they do.

On the same basis, it is surprising that several boat builders and fitters have also been able to take new orders after starting to trade again in a subtly different quite after a previous liquidation.

 

I'm firmly with John on this - company law in this country allows complete piss taking.

 

One sees the same with computer suppliers, double glazing suppliers, etc - we have people leafleting us around here saying they have been established lots of years, but omitting to mention how many times they have gone under in that period.

 

As well as issues about creditors, including employees, it is unusual for a guarantee that was issued by a former incarnation of a company to be honoured in any way by the new iteration of the company.

[nb Innisfree]

I find it remarkable that in a relatively small environment such as the canal community, with its well-renowned towpath telegraph, that Wilsons can carry on the way they do.

 

They survive because of a previous reputation for good quality and reliable goods, a service which once established over a long time rolls on even after a possible deterioration in that service, people are by and large reluctant to hear criticism of someone they have trust in and tend to stick with things once they have made their minds up. If they revert to a good service it will also take a long time to regain that reputation.

[carlt]

They survive because of a previous reputation for good quality and reliable goods....

They don't survive, though, do they?

 

If they weren't allowed to just abandon their debts, with no liability or obligation to the people they are not paying, then they'd have disappeared years ago.

[cotswoldsman]

They don't survive, though, do they?

 

If they weren't allowed to just abandon their debts, with no liability or obligation to the people they are not paying, then they'd have disappeared years ago.

 

have a green thingy!!!

[sociable_hermit]

I bought many trucks from them at auction for next to nothing

I see. So your sympathy for those affected didn't extend to offering market value for their assets?

[cotswoldsman]

I see. So your sympathy for those affected didn't extend to offering market value for their assets?

 

A auction is an auction it is what it is. Silly me I always thought market value at an auction was the highest bidder, am I wrong in that assumption?

Or if you want to look at it the other way it also made sure that employees were paid.

[nb Innisfree]

They don't survive, though, do they?

 

If they weren't allowed to just abandon their debts, with no liability or obligation to the people they are not paying, then they'd have disappeared years ago.

 

Totally agree, my point was they are, wrongly, able to use that previous reputation to carry on giving a questionable service, taking advantage of peoples good will but those people do have a limit.

[Nightwatch]

They don't survive, though, do they?

 

If they weren't allowed to just abandon their debts, with no liability or obligation to the people they are not paying, then they'd have disappeared years ago.

And another greenie. Popped away from the PC to return to see Carl pinched my thoughts.

 

Am I bothered? No.

 

Martyn

[carlt]

And another greenie. Popped away from the PC to return to see Carl pinched my thoughts.

 

Am I bothered? No.

 

But how do you know what other thoughts I might have pinched?...

 

Still not bothered?

[Nightwatch]

Concerned? Perhaps

[Proper Job]

I see. So your sympathy for those affected didn't extend to offering market value for their assets?

The market value for anything is what a punter is prepared to pay for something at that time.

 

Liquidation auctions are the fairest and quickest way to dispose of such assets.

 

It's not unknown for 'members' of the liquidated company (or their representatives) to bid for items. Lets be fair........ they'll need them to restart the company