Cheapest heating in the long run for liveaboards.

[Caprifool]

I did the search and understand there will be different opinions about this. But, If living on board all year round and at home on the boat 24/7. What is the most economical heating? Coal, gas, wood, diesel......? Or any other suggestions? If you would choose to install new heating today, what would it be?

[ymu]

We had a winter on a boat with Eberspacher only, and it was both freezing and expensive ...

 

Cheapest is wood you collect yourself (ie free), but whilst this gives out a great heat it needs a lot of attention to keep it in for long. A bed of coal will keep some embers going 24/7.

[cotswoldsman]

As someone who hates to be cold, this would be one area in the middle of a cold winter I would not be looking to save money on. Coal every time for me with maybe the occasional log picked up along the way.

[choogh]

I did the search and understand there will be different opinions about this. But, If living on board all year round and at home on the boat 24/7. What is the most economical heating? Coal, gas, wood, diesel......? Or any other suggestions? If you would choose to install new heating today, what would it be?

 

Depends on your expectations, the insulation co-efficient of your boat. I have a Solid fuel Rayburn that heats the water and central heating, with Eberspacher back up.

Free wood for the Rayburn, with Excel for the winter evenings.. Eberspacher for the days when I don't need a fire, or hot meals.

[Robin2]

My Morso Squirrel burning coal kept the 57' boat nice and warm in the coldest days of the past 2 winters. I seem to recall working out that coal is cheaper than diesel for a comparable energy output.

 

Obviously diesel is more convenient but ...

 

I had an Eberspacher hot air heater on my previous boat and it was totally unsuitable for a liveaboard because the blower motor wore out in less than two years and cost about £500 to replace. I don't know if the water heater Eberspachers are more reliable or less expensive to repair.

 

The other advantage of a solid fuel stove is that it can burn "free" wood. But don't underestimate how much wood you need to be equivalent to 25kg of coal.

[Caprifool]

First, thank you all for your answers. Most appreciated!

 

But don't underestimate how much wood you need to be equivalent to 25kg of coal.

 

I burn 15 cubic meters of wood each year in my house here in Sweden. And I'm guessing the amount needed for a boat is way less than that ;-) But the equivalent of wood to coal was interresting. Do you know what it actually is aproximatly? Or know where I could find out? We don't use coal here, so I have no clue.

[choogh]

I did the search and understand there will be different opinions about this. But, If living on board all year round and at home on the boat 24/7. What is the most economical heating? Coal, gas, wood, diesel......? Or any other suggestions? If you would choose to install new heating today, what would it be?

 

Depends on your expectations, the insulation co-efficient of your boat. I have a Solid fuel Rayburn that heats the water and central heating, with Eberspacher back up.

Free wood for the Rayburn, with Excel for the winter evenings.. Eberspacher for the days when I don't need a fire, or hot meals.

[WotEver]

... the equivalent of wood to coal was interresting. Do you know what it actually is aproximatly? Or know where I could find out? We don't use coal here, so I have no clue.

Coal has more than twice the calorific value of wood by weight, and is nearly three times as dense. So you'd need roughly six times the volume of wood versus coal for the same output of heat.

 

Tony

[Caprifool]

Thanks Tony. Allways good to have something to compare with :-)

[magpie patrick]

Be aware as well that wood is good value when it is free, around here, the cost of buying wood makes coal cheaper for the same energy.

 

For £7.50, you can join the Somerset Coal canal Society, if you then turn up on a couple of work parties in the winter, we will give you as much wood as you can use, it's a perk, but it does require you to be near Bath. It's also a perk that won't withstand a sudden influx of new volunteers before anyone else gets any ideas

[nbfiresprite]

I did the search and understand there will be different opinions about this. But, If living on board all year round and at home on the boat 24/7. What is the most economical heating? Coal, gas, wood, diesel......? Or any other suggestions? If you would choose to install new heating today, what would it be?

 

Mult fuel stove, using 'Bog'Oak when you can get your hands on (Dug out by framer's in the Fens). Burns slow for hours with great heat out. The downside is that it needs to be cut before it dries out, otherwise you will wreck your saw.

 

 

Firesprite

 

In the Office

[Speedwheel]

A big thick hand knitted Aran sweater. Cost me a big of groveling to the missus('s?) mother. Costs nothing to run.

[Caprifool]

Mult fuel stove, using 'Bog'Oak when you can get your hands on (Dug out by framer's in the Fens).

 

Had to look up what bog oak was. What a wonderful craft material! But, is it realy cheap as a fuel?

 

A big thick hand knitted Aran sweater. Cost me a big of groveling to the missus('s?) mother. Costs nothing to run.

 

A sweater and thick wool socks are true money savers! Saves your back from chopping wood too. Luckily I'm blessed with a mother sensible enough to teach me how to knit as a 6 year old. And I have been knitting ever since. So, no need to grovel to anyone :-)

Edited April 20, 2011 by Caprifool

[larkshall]

Had to look up what bog oak was. What a wonderful craft meterial! But, is it realy cheap as a fuel?

 

 

 

A sweater and thick wool socks are true money savers! Saves your back from chopping wood too. Luckily I'm blessed with a mother sensible enough to teach me how to knit as a 6 year old. And I have been knitting ever since. So, no need to grovel to anyone :-)

 

 

Right thats your job sorted for all the freezing canal folk over here. I know good sources of natural wool, and angorra

[Caprifool]

Right thats your job sorted for all the freezing canal folk over here. I know good sources of natural wool, and angorra

 

I actually sell quite a lot of yarns, socks and other products to the UK already. I mostly knit socks but have knitted a few Arans and Guernsey too. You guys appreciate good wool far more than the Swedes. Hm....angora you say. Expect a PM later on ;-)

[ymu]

Thinking about it, the system we have is pretty efficient. I didn't like it at first, but it's not too bad.

 

The stove heats a back-boiler with pipes which run through two radiators and round the calorifier before coming back to the stove. The water-flow is controlled by a pump, which must be on when the fire is hot.

 

Now, because it's not gravity-fed or thermostat controlled, when the fire goes out, the pipes start returning heat from the calorifier. This means that the calorifier is being used like a heat battery, storing the excess heat from the stove and returning it to the boat when the stove cools down.

 

This means you can lose all your hot water, of course. But as long as you use it when the return pipe is hot or the engine has been running half an hour, it's fine.

 

The best system of all, I think, would be a gravity fed back-boiler with a pump available for long winter nights when you want to keep the edge off the chill in the morning, but that can be switched off when it's not needed via a thermostat, set to turn the pump off when gravity is doing its thing, or when the pipes get too hot and gravity doesn't seem to be doing its thing.

[Windfola]

Someone mentioned Rayburns - just wondered if they do a small boat stove with oven and back boiler? Like you get in kitchens?

 

Found this:

 

My link

 

Does anyone think it could be used on a boat for cooking, heating and boiler?

 

Or would it be hopelessly too hot in summer? (common problem with ranges in houses). How about doubling it up with a gas cooker for winter use, and fuel saving?

[Amwris]

Someone mentioned Rayburns - just wondered if they do a small boat stove with oven and back boiler? Like you get in kitchens?

 

Found this:

 

My link

 

Does anyone think it could be used on a boat for cooking, heating and boiler?

 

Or would it be hopelessly too hot in summer? (common problem with ranges in houses). How about doubling it up with a gas cooker for winter use, and fuel saving?

 

 

That one looks fab but I can't afford it (sniff.) If money was no object the Esse Ironheart gets my vote.

 

I'm replacing my Bubble stove this year with a mulifuel boiler stove + oven My linkCheap as chips! Autumn onwards It will go through a calorifier and two rads. Giving me heating hot water and cooking. Summertime I use the gas cooker.

 

Anyone want to buy a bubble stove?

 

Phil

[ymu]

Someone mentioned Rayburns - just wondered if they do a small boat stove with oven and back boiler? Like you get in kitchens?

 

Found this:

 

My link

 

Does anyone think it could be used on a boat for cooking, heating and boiler?

 

Or would it be hopelessly too hot in summer? (common problem with ranges in houses). How about doubling it up with a gas cooker for winter use, and fuel saving?

You could easily get by with a single-gas ring in summer, and it's not like nights are so hot that it would be unbearable for much of the spring and autumn. I think it's a great solution, and a very economical way of getting really good heating with cooking thrown in for free. Chuck in a gas fridge with some nifty timer controls, and solar panels and you'd be filling up with diesel once a year.

[sebrof]

Although it is probably true that coal packs more energy per pound sterling than other fuels, coal burning stoves are extremely inefficient. Much of the heat goes up the chimney, and a coal stove is always either producing too much heat or too little. There is no satisfactory way to control the output.

 

So, in practice, a diesel or gas heater could well be a cheaper option, and certainly a cleaner and more convenient one.

[chris_r]

Hi ... I have a diesel fired Rayburn Regent on my boat. It has a back boiler and provides hot water and heats a small radiator in the bathroom and provides background heat in the main cabin. It is rather nice, but during the Summer it does tend to get the cabin a bit on the hot side, so out comes the small gas burner to sit on top of the stove. The Rayburn is effective .. perhaps too effective at heating and could maybe benefit from having some more radiators attached to dissipate the heat a bit better. Cooking also needs a bit more planning as it takes an hour or so to get the oven up to roasting temperature, although the results are worth the effort.

 

All that said, I am sadly replacing the Rayburn later this year with something easier to use. The boat will be up for sale by next Spring and whilst the Rayburn is great, as the boat is currently a liveaboard, it will not suit everyone's needs. So the plan is to replace it with something more user friendly.

 

Just my experiences !

 

 

Someone mentioned Rayburns - just wondered if they do a small boat stove with oven and back boiler? Like you get in kitchens?

[nb Innisfree]

Although it is probably true that coal packs more energy per pound sterling than other fuels, coal burning stoves are extremely inefficient. Much of the heat goes up the chimney, and a coal stove is always either producing too much heat or too little. There is no satisfactory way to control the output.

 

So, in practice, a diesel or gas heater could well be a cheaper option, and certainly a cleaner and more convenient one.

 

Disagree on controlling the output, our Villager Puffin is totally controllable with the right fuel, on Excel it can be shut down to tick over and then burns very slowly.

[sebrof]

Disagree on controlling the output, our Villager Puffin is totally controllable with the right fuel, on Excel it can be shut down to tick over and then burns very slowly.

 

So it runs on a thermostat? Or you have to keep adjusting it yourself?

[Robin2]

Although it is probably true that coal packs more energy per pound sterling than other fuels, coal burning stoves are extremely inefficient. Much of the heat goes up the chimney, and a coal stove is always either producing too much heat or too little. There is no satisfactory way to control the output.

 

So, in practice, a diesel or gas heater could well be a cheaper option, and certainly a cleaner and more convenient one.

 

I don't agree about the "extremely inefficient" or the lack of control. Solid fuel stoves are very different from open fires because they limit the air to just what is needed for combustion. However if you have some good quality unbiased scientific data on comparative efficiency I would love to see it.

 

Of course the stove doesn't have a thermostat or an automatic fuel feed or the ability to start itself on the command of a timer. But these are problems of convenience rather than efficiency.

[nb Innisfree]

So it runs on a thermostat? Or you have to keep adjusting it yourself?

 

Manually, perfectly satisfactory if done correctly.