Jump to content

LED lights


duztee

Featured Posts

Have just replaced 2 halagon spotlights (M16) with LED conversions.

now have a problem that when these lights are switched on they cut out the radio signal, nothing but static!

The halagon and tungsten bulbs don't have any effect on the reception.

So is this a fault of LED's

Is it a fault with boat wiring, don't know but radio may be wired into lighting curcuit.

or am I just unlucky!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have just replaced 2 halagon spotlights (M16) with LED conversions.

now have a problem that when these lights are switched on they cut out the radio signal, nothing but static!

The halagon and tungsten bulbs don't have any effect on the reception.

So is this a fault of LED's

Is it a fault with boat wiring, don't know but radio may be wired into lighting curcuit.

or am I just unlucky!

 

It's a problem with the LED controller not being well designed, probably economising on suppressor components.

Try another brand & see if they're any better.

Do you have an external radio aerial? You might need one if you're going to run LEDs close to the radio.

 

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have just replaced 2 halagon spotlights (M16) with LED conversions.

now have a problem that when these lights are switched on they cut out the radio signal, nothing but static!

The halagon and tungsten bulbs don't have any effect on the reception.

So is this a fault of LED's

Is it a fault with boat wiring, don't know but radio may be wired into lighting curcuit.

or am I just unlucky!

 

Is your radio DAB or FM ?

I ask because I have one LED spot lamp in our salon that interferes with our DAB signal, the other 3 LED spots and the 9 LED ceiling lights have no effect. It only affects DAB signals. Ive never swapped the bulbs around to see if it was the bulb or the light position/fitting/cabling. I'd assumed it was the bulb. Someone will be long who will know for sure.

Les

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have just replaced 2 halagon spotlights (M16) with LED conversions.

now have a problem that when these lights are switched on they cut out the radio signal, nothing but static!

The halagon and tungsten bulbs don't have any effect on the reception.

So is this a fault of LED's

Is it a fault with boat wiring, don't know but radio may be wired into lighting curcuit.

or am I just unlucky!

 

 

This is far from uncommon and may well indicate problems with the CE mark related to radio interference. I know own canal supplier is in contact with her Chinese supplier to try to sort it out. It seem to be related to the surge suppression & voltage control circuitry within the "bulb".

 

It will also depend upon what type of radio & aerial you have - have a search, this was discussed a month or so ago.

 

There are all sorts of things you could try but first we need to know about the radio & aerial.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the radio is powered by the boat electrics then the interference is possibly getting in through the wiring and there are things you can do to try and fix it. This would be an inline filter (inductor / capacitor) added to the wiring. If its a permanently fitted radio check its earth and the antenna earth and cable. Ideally an earth on a radio should be as short as possible and made out of braid, not stranded wire.

 

If it's got its own internal batteries then its probably radiated interference. It's being generated by a badly designed power supply in the LED unit and would require a circuit change in the LED unit to fix it. The interference is usually broad band (covers a lot of frequencies - FM, DAB etc). The bulbs should meet European specifications that are designed to reduce the problems, but many don't. If it's radiated interference your options are:-

Redesign LED unit - not possible

Change brand of LED unit that doesn't interfere - any recomendations?

Try moving the radio as far away from the interference as possible - not elegant

Fit external antenna (does the radio work better near to a window?)

Return to halogen lamps

Edited by Chalky
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the quick responses!

obviously it is a fairly common problem.

Radio is an ex car radio with an external arial, I have not checked the wiring or suppression yet, but will do.

will check if bulbs have EU marks next time i am on board.

but I think simple solution is to replace only half the bulbs, then use halagon/tungsten when the radio is on LED's at other times.

When I was told LED's save power I didn't think this was because I had to turn radio off!

I did try searching for LED's, Radio, Interference, but didn't get any relevent results.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it's a car radio with an external antenna then it's probably wiring related. Check that the radio and lights are not fed off the same wire. If they are fit separate ones and ideally run them in different cable ducts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it's a car radio with an external antenna then it's probably wiring related. Check that the radio and lights are not fed off the same wire. If they are fit separate ones and ideally run them in different cable ducts.

Mine run off different batteries and one fitting still causes interference, I just listen to the radio with the light off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't believe this is through the wiring - I have installed several types from Bedazzled as I slowly upgrade all the lighting. All well and good after two different types for the spots until I try another type for the bulkhead lighting just a fortnight ago. Nasty background hiss on the radio which will also no longer search for the next station unless the light is off (radio interference). Tried them in the lights furthest away from the radio and it's better, but still discernible background 'hush'.

 

Bedazzled were very helpful and said it was an older type controller in the bulb I had chosen, and suggested an alternative. Fitted four of those only yesterday, and they are absolutely fine.

Edited by Serendipity
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I was told LED's save power I didn't think this was because I had to turn radio off!

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

I've recently been experimenting with this very problem. In every case so far it's been poor (read cheap) design of LED driver sending electrical crap back up the power cables which then act as an antenna and radiate it all round your boat.

 

Some success has been had with a simple large ferrite bead on the power wires very close to the lamp but it's far from guaranteed. They really need a proper filter but that would add 10 pence to the cost so the manufacturer isn't going to do it until he's forced to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes it would probably affect the TV as well.

The power supply works by switching at high speed and it's this that causes lots of noise, potentially across the whole radio spectrum - some parts can be worse than others. Adding a filter (ferrite bead - Gibbo, or inline inductor) to the power supply - either as part of the circuit or externally may fix part of it. Separate wiring can also sometimes help - a lot depends on the installation and it can be a bit of a black art at times. Usually a fix involves a mix of filters, snubbers, slowing down the rate of rise of the switching edge, changing switching frequencies, different circuit layouts, screening cans, PCB layout and a good RF earth.

 

Should we start a lost of known good and bad LED replacements? Could save a lot of grief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is your radio DAB or FM ?

I ask because I have one LED spot lamp in our salon that interferes with our DAB signal, the other 3 LED spots and the 9 LED ceiling lights have no effect. It only affects DAB signals. Ive never swapped the bulbs around to see if it was the bulb or the light position/fitting/cabling. I'd assumed it was the bulb. Someone will be long who will know for sure.

Les

We are the other way round. We listen to DAB - with external aerial - most of the timer but if we turn to FM then we have interferencebut only from the lounge or kitchen lights, not from the dining area!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the quick responses!

obviously it is a fairly common problem. ...

 

We've just started replacing our halogens with LEDs. Before sourcing a few from 'Bedazzled' I emailed them asking specifically about radio interference and they replied that: '... I am pleased to say our latest delivery of G4H-6L and G4H-10L bulbs are now EMI free'. We've had no problems listening to a small analogue radio that sits about 2-feet below the lights.

 

Here's some technical info about electromagnetic interference: EMI

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:lol::lol::lol:

 

I've recently been experimenting with this very problem. In every case so far it's been poor (read cheap) design of LED driver sending electrical crap back up the power cables which then act as an antenna and radiate it all round your boat.

 

Some success has been had with a simple large ferrite bead on the power wires very close to the lamp but it's far from guaranteed. They really need a proper filter but that would add 10 pence to the cost so the manufacturer isn't going to do it until he's forced to.

 

Do you put both wires through the same ferrite bead?

 

m@

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For this application I would say both.

 

Tony

 

 

If you've got a ferrite ring (big ferrite bead) both wires go through and ideally through the ring, round the outside and back through again - make a couple of turns.

 

Thanks - will give it a go

 

m@

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread caught my attention as I too have a radio interference issue which I think must be LED derived.

Not by LED lighting but I believe it comes from a battery monitor which has red LED digits. It is a Link 10 unit originally bought from Merlin many years ago.

I use a battery powered radio in the bedroom which has an external aerial. With the boat domestic power turned off the radio works perfectly with no hint of interference, but with the power on there is lots of pulsing interference.

I proceeded to isolate electrical circuits one at a time to attempt to find the source of this interference. Disconnecting the power supply to the battery monitor (which is fed directly from the battery switch terminals also in the engine room) stopped the interference completely. This battery monitor is in the engine room and about 6’ away from the radio. The aerial is located on the roof at the front of the boat.

I can only imagine then that the interference is somehow being transmitted by this monitor but am at a loss to know how or even if it is possible to stop it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread caught my attention as I too have a radio interference issue which I think must be LED derived.

Not by LED lighting but I believe it comes from a battery monitor which has red LED digits. It is a Link 10 unit originally bought from Merlin many years ago.

I use a battery powered radio in the bedroom which has an external aerial. With the boat domestic power turned off the radio works perfectly with no hint of interference, but with the power on there is lots of pulsing interference.

I proceeded to isolate electrical circuits one at a time to attempt to find the source of this interference. Disconnecting the power supply to the battery monitor (which is fed directly from the battery switch terminals also in the engine room) stopped the interference completely. This battery monitor is in the engine room and about 6’ away from the radio. The aerial is located on the roof at the front of the boat.

I can only imagine then that the interference is somehow being transmitted by this monitor but am at a loss to know how or even if it is possible to stop it.

When you say battery powered radio I assume that you mean it's not connected to the boat's power supply. I also assume that you've got a proper aerial with a coaxial lead connecting it to the radio. If it's just a bit of wire then that's your problem - your external aerial may be doing nothing.

If you've got interference and a proper aerial I'd be looking at the aerial - it should be earthed to the boat hull at the aerial itself and nowhere else. I'd also look at the aerial lead looking for damage and also the connection to your radio. How is it connected. Is it a proper aerial connector or something made up?

I'd also look at the battery monitor connections. Any earth on it wants to be directly back to the best earth point you can find - somewhere like the boat fuse box or the battery. It wants to be as short as possible, and as large a cable diameter as possible - ideally use braid (remember to insulate it). The earth cables may only carry very small currents, but at radio frequencies they can seem like they're open circuit. Good earths are the key and can help overcome many problems - but not all. Sometimes circuit modifications inside the unit are the only answer.

Also try moving the radio to somewhere else. If its powered off its own batteries this may be easier.

There are many ways of solving this type of problem and not all work in all situations - it can sometimes be a bit of a black art.

 

As a starting point it may be worth contacting Merlin. This may be something that they've seen before and there may be a common fix or work around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

- it can sometimes be a bit of a black art.

 

The understatement of the thread :)

 

Tony

 

It's not only LED drivers which can cause this sort of thing. In my workshop I have an LED machine light on my big lathe and a charger for cordless tools, both from upmarket German makers, and both interfere badly with the radio.

 

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not only LED drivers which can cause this sort of thing. In my workshop I have an LED machine light on my big lathe and a charger for cordless tools, both from upmarket German makers, and both interfere badly with the radio.

 

Tim

I have a cheap pair of electronic ear defenders in my workshop - you know, the kind that have a built-in mic that shuts down when noise happens. I can't wear them at the workbench because the flourescent above the bench creates an almighty buzz in them.

 

Tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.