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Survey for a new build?


Supertramp

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Looking around at various boats, new and used.

Whilst a survey on a used boat is common sense, -

is there any need to get a survey on a new build?

 

Sure there is a warranty, but could there be hidden problems that dont come to light until later?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Tony

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I would say yes generally. As all boat builders can, in theory, self certificate for the RCD, and therefore can just say 'yes it's compliant'.......until you find it's not at your first BSS...hard job then to get them in to sort anything they did fit badly or wrongly.

The CBA are currently trying to get a scheme whereby as a minimum, all CBA builders have to have a separate certificate from a surveyor for key points in the build.....long over due to my thinking.

If you have a survey done, it could save much hassle and problems....and money on purchase, if there are any issues....if not, you at least have peace of mind.

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When my sailaway was being built, I had a surveyor do all the RCD documentation. As part of the package he visited the boat during the shell construction and had them redo some of the ribs as he said it didn't meet the RCD requirements. Also picked up a couple of welds he wasn't happy about. He also visitied me during the fitting out and advised on various aspects. It's nice to have a completely independent survey of the build and I am sure it will be of benefit if/when I come to sell the boat.

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In short - yes, get a survey.

 

If nothing else, it's reassuring.

 

I'm afraid, I don't like the idea of self-certification: some boatbuilders go bust/out of business and/or cut corners to avoid the aforementioned. My 'dodgy boat' was self-certified as 'fit for purpose' by the builder's brother two months after we removed it from his yard, and through an independent survey (at the time of removal) we found that a lot of what was stated as fit for purpose wasn't. It was good having the two documents at the time of going to court...because there was nothing but denial until that point.

 

If there were to be any negligence on their part, it's picked up early rather than too late. Too late is not about the money, it's about personal safety.

 

In our case, when we presented our boat to our new boatbuilders they knew what needed to be done, and we're very helpful in trying to get problems rectified. We retained a surveyor throughout the boatbuild as well.

 

Having an independent survey may cost now but should you need to resort to legal action, remember: the vast majority don't because of the expense. A survey costs circa 500 pounds. My lawyer was 240 pounds an hour. Getting things remedied immediately can be far cheaper!

 

Even if there's a warranty, having an independent survey saves pounds later should there be any dispute.

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Thanks to all for the replies, a survey seems the sensible option.

 

As a side point - we would all barter the price of a used boat, but can discounts also be had on 'advertised' fix price new builds?

what would be a reasonable discount?

Thanks

 

I think you will find it does not work that way for new builds, there is not sufficient profit in the price for the boatbuilder to discount the price. In any event they all work with a long lead time according to their order book which is typically 12 to 18 months. If you were in business would you like to tie yourself to a price 12 months hence with all the rising prices such as steel let alone discount the price? My own opinion on a survey of a new boat would be a waste of money. I doubt this is a common practice. I fear you approach to the topic "surveyor and discounting" will likely be viewed a time waster by the prospective builder

 

Charles

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I assume the OP is looking at an 'off the shelf' new boat built to a standard spec, not a future build?

thus the definite 'have a survey', and in that case I would think there may be margins for a small reduction if the survey shows need...or preferably the work re-done instead.

Depends though on the builder....who is it?

Some builders are actually building to full compliance (not that anyone will agree) and a few employ an independant surveyor themselves for peace of mind.....believe it or not!!!!!

There are rules of thumb in everything, but also exceptions of course.

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I know of a prominent boat builder whos products often need to have money spent on them to pass the BSC at the first four year test. A few hundred spent on an independent supervisor may be money well spent.

not the first time i've heard that.....the question is though......

WHY don't customers go back to the builder at that stage, if it's a non-compliancy issue from the start?

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Some builders are actually building to full compliance (not that anyone will agree) and a few employ an independant surveyor themselves for peace of mind.....believe it or not!!!!!

There are rules of thumb in everything, but also exceptions of course.

 

Actually, you are quite correct: some do build to full compliance and have their work regularly checked. All should. So something for new boatowners to factor in their decision-making.

 

"WHY don't customers go back to the builder at that stage, if it's a non-compliancy issue from the start?"

 

I think there's two issues at play. The first is the RCD and the BSS have a small number of conflicts set up within them. A boat is built to an RCD, but maintained by the BSS - so you have to go with the first even though it won't be acceptable to the latter. Also, rules change from time to time: so four years post-build something that might have been previously acceptable no longer is.

 

But when the Boatbuilder cannot claim either of these issues as pertinent that is where the real trouble begins. For many I've spoken to on this issue, the reality has been paying to get it fixed versus having to take a boatbuilder to court to enforce their consumer rights (in cases of dispute). Unless the boatbuilder is a member of a Boatbuilding Association, which can assist with arbitration, there is no other organisation to enforce your legal rights, aside from the courts.

 

Ultimately, resolving one's BSS issues is much cheaper, much less stressful and not nearly as time-consuming. Remember that if the boatbuilder has gone out of business (even if they've restarted under another name) then the law states that you cannot make any further claims against the company, unless you can prove the directors have been negligent (again a very expensive process). This applies to Ltd companies, not sole-traders. So it's a case of making the best of a bad bunch of options.

Edited by NiceNarrowboat
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Thanks again for the replies, - some very good pointers.

Ally is correct in the assumtion that I am looking at 'off the shelf' new build, and not bespoke.

 

Ally also asks which builder I'm connsidering, -

I have looked at the new Hanbury range from New & Used boats. - does anyone have any views about the quality or reputation of this builder?

by all means PM me if you'd reather not put any comments on the site.

 

Many thanks

Tony

Edited by Supertramp
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Thanks again for the replies, - some very good pointers.

Ally is correct in the assumtion that I am looking at 'off the shelf' new build, and not bespoke.

 

Ally also asks which builder I'm connsidering, -

I have looked at the new Hanbury range from New & Used boats. - does anyone have any views about the quality or reputation of this builder?

by all means PM me if you'd reather not put any comments on the site.

 

Many thanks

Tony

 

 

I have a very strong view on their conduct at two bases over the sale of USED boats and would definitely get a survey done on a new one from them.

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I think there's two issues at play. The first is the RCD and the BSS have a small number of conflicts set up within them....

 

Quite categorically, there is no conflict between compliance with the Recreation Craft Regulations (RCD) and the BSS Requirements.

 

A boat that properly meets the Recreational Craft Directive, will meet the Boat Safety Scheme Requirements.

 

While the BSS requirements are less encompassing and thus less onerous than the RCD, there is always the chance that if boat does not meet the RCD, it also fall hort on BSS compliance.

 

If anyone believes that they have a boat that complies with the RCD and yet has been deemed by an examiner as not meeting the BSS requirements, there is a fast track appeals process.

 

 

As to the question in the OP

On commissioning a new build, the best advice as Dor points out, is to take on the services of an independent competent, third-party, marine surveyor specialising in RCD work.

 

 

HTH

Rob

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  • 4 weeks later...

Quite categorically, there is no conflict between compliance with the Recreation Craft Regulations (RCD) and the BSS Requirements.

 

A boat that properly meets the Recreational Craft Directive, will meet the Boat Safety Scheme Requirements.

 

While the BSS requirements are less encompassing and thus less onerous than the RCD, there is always the chance that if boat does not meet the RCD, it also fall hort on BSS compliance.

 

If anyone believes that they have a boat that complies with the RCD and yet has been deemed by an examiner as not meeting the BSS requirements, there is a fast track appeals process.

 

 

As to the question in the OP

On commissioning a new build, the best advice as Dor points out, is to take on the services of an independent competent, third-party, marine surveyor specialising in RCD work.

 

 

HTH

Rob

 

 

Thanks Rob and others.

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a big YES for a new Boat.

 

Friends of ours got brand new boat and are now in litigation over the stuff that was wrong on the boat that has shown up in less than 12 months - the majority of which are structural and relate to electrics (i.e not earthed!). The boat is not fit for purpose and some of the stuff wrong with it is downright dangerous.

 

Boat survey was done by boat builder (common practice I understand) - need I say more.

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a big YES for a new Boat.

 

Friends of ours got brand new boat and are now in litigation over the stuff that was wrong on the boat that has shown up in less than 12 months - the majority of which are structural and relate to electrics (i.e not earthed!). The boat is not fit for purpose and some of the stuff wrong with it is downright dangerous.

 

Boat survey was done by boat builder (common practice I understand) - need I say more.

 

Technically I think what you mean is that the builder 'self declared' the boats conformity with the Recreational Craft Directive and yes it is very very common.

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Actually, you are quite correct: some do build to full compliance and have their work regularly checked. All should. So something for new boatowners to factor in their decision-making.

 

"WHY don't customers go back to the builder at that stage, if it's a non-compliancy issue from the start?"

 

I think there's two issues at play. The first is the RCD and the BSS have a small number of conflicts set up within them. A boat is built to an RCD, but maintained by the BSS - so you have to go with the first even though it won't be acceptable to the latter. Also, rules change from time to time: so four years post-build something that might have been previously acceptable no longer is.

 

But when the Boatbuilder cannot claim either of these issues as pertinent that is where the real trouble begins. For many I've spoken to on this issue, the reality has been paying to get it fixed versus having to take a boatbuilder to court to enforce their consumer rights (in cases of dispute). Unless the boatbuilder is a member of a Boatbuilding Association, which can assist with arbitration, there is no other organisation to enforce your legal rights, aside from the courts.

 

Ultimately, resolving one's BSS issues is much cheaper, much less stressful and not nearly as time-consuming. Remember that if the boatbuilder has gone out of business (even if they've restarted under another name) then the law states that you cannot make any further claims against the company, unless you can prove the directors have been negligent (again a very expensive process). This applies to Ltd companies, not sole-traders. So it's a case of making the best of a bad bunch of options.

Surly if its not RCD compliant and the firm is still in business then its a matter for Trading Standard and if you try to resell your boat that is not compliant you are also breaking the Law even if it is BSS compliant.

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