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Belgian busybodies


Mac of Cygnet

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This is from NBW, so I'm witholding judgment, but has anyone heard about this?

THE Belgian government believes that red diesel sold with full duty paid does not comply with EU legislation and has persuaded the European Commission to approach our government to ban red diesel for boats.

 

This would presumably mean we would have to use white diesel at the road rate (and then some). I fail to see what possible business this is of the Belgian government—which doesn't even exist, since they have been unable to put together a coalition since elections held last Spring. Or why the unelected and undemocratic Commission should again be interfering in our domestic affairs.

 

Edited to say that I vaguely remembered someone posting about a couple of prosecutions in Belgium, but can't find it.

 

Mac

Edited by Mac of Cygnet
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This is from NBW, so I'm witholding judgment, but has anyone heard about this?

 

THE Belgian government believes that red diesel sold with full duty paid does not comply with EU legislation and has persuaded the European Commission to approach our government to ban red diesel for boats.

 

This would presumably mean we would have to use white diesel at the road rate (and then some). I fail to see what possible business this is of the Belgian government—which doesn't even exist, since they have been unable to put together a coalition since elections held last Spring. Or why the unelected and undemocratic Commission should again be interfering in our domestic affairs.

 

Edited to say that I vaguely remembered someone posting about a couple of prosecutions in Belgium, but can't find it.

 

Mac

 

The issue as I understand it from someone who knows is that the red that is sold for propulsion here is dutied OK, but is only carrying 5% VAT. This is contrary to EU law. For my boat in France I have to pay for white diesel for propulsion and, if I choose, red diesel for domestic purposes at whatever the correct rate of VAT is. It seems that the objection from Belgium is likely to stir things up and force an increase of VAT on propulsion fuel from 5% to 20%. We certainly have to pay port prices for white in France for propulsion diesel unless we fetch it from the supermarket in lots of cans and then where do you store the cans when you have no use for them.

Roger

Edited by Albion
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There is also an article on this page 44 WW March 2011.

 

Is says "Belgium Customs has recently been fining private boats that cross the Channel and turn up in their country with more than 1% of red diesel in their propulsion tanks, even when the boater has paid the full duty in the UK".

 

Answer is simple don't go to Belgium and our Government should tell them to stop interfering and bog off!

 

Fat chance of that.

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Please come to Belgium, it's lovely. But - it is easier and cheaper with two tanks, one for white purely for propulsion and one for red for everything else. Like UK, it's cheaper to buy from a garage than a boatyard which is why we carry a couple of jerry cans on the roof. With bridge clearances of 3.5m it's no problem.Sometimes they'll deliver both by tanker.The funny thing is, the Belgians are VERY good at ignoring rules they don't like. We've learnt to live like the Belgians.

Edited by wandering snail
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Please come to Belgium, it's lovely. But - it is easier and cheaper with two tanks, one for white purely for propulsion and one for red for everything else. Like UK, it's cheaper to buy from a garage than a boatyard which is why we carry a couple of jerry cans on the roof. With bridge clearances of 3.5m it's no problem.Sometimes they'll deliver both by tanker.The funny thing is, the Belgians are VERY good at ignoring rules they don't like. We've learnt to live like the Belgians.

 

Hopefully a bit of green diesel left knocking about will confuse them, when Maurice A eventually gets over to the continot :lol:

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If the Belgians are so good at ignoring rules they don't like (I remember Belgium being refered to as Europe's banana republic....), why don't they f*u* off, and keep annoying eachg other by speaking different languages to each other...

 

what happens if a person from the Dutch province of Limburg moves to Belgium?

 

The I.Q. In both countries goes up....

 

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To be fair to the Belgians. In the UK we have been lucky up until recently. In most of europe the only way to get reduced duty "red" fuel for your boat is the be on a IMO registered commercial vessel. pleasure craft dont get it and have to pay full duty for white. so its only bringing us in line with the rest of europe.

 

I found this out the hard way by turning up in Germany in a lifeboat(which isnt but could have been IMO registered fairly easily) virtually on fumes after 16 hours at sea to be told without an IMO number they couldnt give us red fuel and they didnt sell white so we had to do another 30 miles crossing our fingers to the next port that the reserve didnt run out. Luckily no problems except for the 6000 euro fuel bill................

 

So really it isnt them interfering it is just them insisting we apply to the same rules the rest of europe do, which our wonderful goverment signed up to.

 

 

There is also an article on this page 44 WW March 2011.

 

Is says "Belgium Customs has recently been fining private boats that cross the Channel and turn up in their country with more than 1% of red diesel in their propulsion tanks, even when the boater has paid the full duty in the UK".

 

Answer is simple don't go to Belgium and our Government should tell them to stop interfering and bog off!

 

Fat chance of that.

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If the Belgians are so good at ignoring rules they don't like (I remember Belgium being refered to as Europe's banana republic....), why don't they f*u* off, and keep annoying eachg other by speaking different languages to each other...

 

what happens if a person from the Dutch province of Limburg moves to Belgium?

 

The I.Q. In both countries goes up....

 

 

Isn't that known as the Leerdammer effect?

 

:blush:

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Please come to Belgium, it's lovely. But - it is easier and cheaper with two tanks, one for white purely for propulsion and one for red for everything else. Like UK, it's cheaper to buy from a garage than a boatyard which is why we carry a couple of jerry cans on the roof. With bridge clearances of 3.5m it's no problem.Sometimes they'll deliver both by tanker.The funny thing is, the Belgians are VERY good at ignoring rules they don't like. We've learnt to live like the Belgians.

 

 

But if you do come and you have a boat longer than 20m (65') do bear in mind that you will now need a certificate of compliance with the Technical Requirements for Inland Waterway Vessels (TRIWV). This is not the same as a BSC or the Recreational Craft Directive, and as the UK is not signed up to the agreement you would have to get your boat certified by a surveyor from another country - most UK owners are getting their certification done by a Dutch surveyor.

 

Although the original EC document gives several years yet before they become mandatory, Belgium has chosen to bring them into effect already, and police inspections are becoming quite frequent there. You would also need to have two VHF sets, fitted with ATIS - a system that identifies which vessel any call is made from. This is also not straightforward as the UK has not signed up to that agreement either.

Edited by Tam & Di
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The rules in Belgium give vessels built between 1912 and 2008 a grace period upto Dec 2014 so who has been stopped and what are they checking for?

As for 2 VHF sets, this requirement has been rescinded.

 

Hi Snail - where are you wintering? Is the above hearsay or has it been promulgated officially?

 

Peter

Kotare

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Hi Snail - where are you wintering? Is the above hearsay or has it been promulgated officially?

 

Peter

Kotare

Hi Kotare.

We're in Lokeren nr. Gent til mid March when we head south thru Walloon.

The above is on a Belgian site but it's all very vague. Don't think anyone knows what's happening, not even the commercials who raise eyebrows and shrug 'gallicly' when they talk about all the changes. We're trying not to worry and hope we don't get stopped while on our way to France this summer. Haven't heard of this happening to anyone tho. Hope to get a reply about that from Tam & Di.

Edited by wandering snail
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The rules in Belgium give vessels built between 1912 and 2008 a grace period upto Dec 2014 so who has been stopped and what are they checking for?

As for 2 VHF sets, this requirement has been rescinded.

 

 

Craft built after 2008 (or before 1912!) must already comply with the TRIWV now, but those built between 1976-2008 have until 2014 as you say. When Belgium brought in the requirement January 2009 for all craft to have 2 ATIS enabled VHFs it originally said they must both be fixed sets. It was persuaded to relax this, and now any craft under 15m (just under 49') only requires one set, and hand-held appliances are acceptable.

 

Quite a few people cruising Belgium have reported inspections recently. The police have a check list they use. As well as looking at TRIWV certification if relevant they have checked the steerer's "driving licence", ship's registry documents, insurance, VHF user's licence (a UK one is only accepted for use on a UK registered vessel in Belgium), life jackets, fire extinguishers (for correct number, type, and up-to-date servicing), gas appliance safety certification, and a whole host of other items**. If everything has checked out OK the owner has been given a sticker valid for 12 months to show if they are inspected again within that period.

 

Some boat clubs have asked for police to visit their site and inspect members' craft so as to avoid the inconvenience of spot checks.

 

edited to say: ** the list of items given is an amalgam of several reports - I have never yet been inspected in Belgium myself. However we are going to a shipyard on the Sambre for our own TRIWV out-of-water survey when our courses finish this Spring, so who knows? Also I did get an emergency call from an owner last year as his boat had been effectively "arrested" as he'd been inspected and did not have a valid driving licence.

Edited by Tam & Di
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