Mooring Spaces for the Disabled

[Neil TNC]

Oh yes I certainly do, My father was asked to walk unaccompanied following a red line on the floor to see how far he could walk, he could not even see the line because of his sight impairment. and could not easily walk unacompanied. The fact that he was registerd disabled, registered deaf, and registered blind did not seem to give him any excemption from their ridiculously simplistic test. Needless to say after five minutes of informed "negotiation", they gave him his badge.

 

Nowadays most Local Authorities will usually accept a written report from the disabled person's GP or Hospital Consultant.

 

Certainly with LB Hillingdon it is a test with one of their Occupational Therapists, unless you prove you satisfy the criteria, by getting supplementary evidence from your GP or Consultant. They automatically accept receipt of, being registered blind*, DLA Higher Rate Mobility component or War Pension Mobility Supplement (ie passed the criteria to get a Motability car) as proof for getting a Blue Badge.

 

registered blind* from April 2011 people who are registered blind will be able to get DLA Higher Rate Mobility Allowance / Motability car

[Albion]

Certainly with LB Hillingdon it is a test with one of their Occupational Therapists, unless you prove you satisfy the criteria, by getting supplementary evidence from your GP or Consultant. They automatically accept receipt of, being registered blind*, DLA Higher Rate Mobility component or War Pension Mobility Supplement (ie passed the criteria to get a Motability car) as proof for getting a Blue Badge.

 

registered blind* from April 2011 people who are registered blind will be able to get DLA Higher Rate Mobility Allowance / Motability car

 

I saw something the other day in the newspaper about the standard eyesight requirement being relaxed somewhat for the driving test but I didn't realise that you can drive a motability car if you are blind

Roger

[Neil TNC]

I saw something the other day in the newspaper about the standard eyesight requirement being relaxed somewhat for the driving test but I didn't realise that you can drive a motability car if you are blind

Roger

 

...so if you were blind, the lovely Margaret would not drive you about?

Even with adaptions, Motability cars are incapable of being driven by many recipients of DLA.

Colin, my BIL is now registered blind (heriditary Choroideremia*) and has been following this with great interest. Linda had a 50% chance of being a carrier, she was lucky, as if she had been a carrier, Peter would have been affected. Her cousin was not so lucky. When Linda and Colin were born they knew nothing about this disease. Linda's grandfather got run over in the half light. At the time they accused him of being drunk, as the Cowley Road was not exactly as busy as it is now. The truth is now out about a very sad episode in Linda's family history.

 

Linky

[Albion]

...so if you were blind, the lovely Margaret would not drive you about?

 

Only kidding Neil, only kidding

Roger

[canaldrifter]

That has been the only case that has ever been prosecuted in Skipton. A woman who left the car on double yellows to go into a bank but didn't have the disabled person on board. All the rest of the abuses are ignored, despite the rules that are published and well known, because (Genuine quote) They are untouchable (unquote).

 

I do find this strange. the Blue Badge is for the person, not the vehicle. there is a passport image of the disabled person on the card. If someone else uses it without the disabled person being there, it would be a straight forward nick.

 

If there really is a genuine requirement for more disabled moorings in honeypot canal sites (and I remain unconvinced of the need) then I quite like Tony's idea of reserved only from 09.00 - 16.00 and clearly marked as such. It still doesn't overcome the problem of the chancer misusing a disabled badge, as on the roads, though.

One other thing that I've thought of is that, maybe it should be 10.00 - 16.00 so that, in Tony's example, the able-bodied boater can get to the local shops to do, say, food shopping the next morning before having to vacate the mooring. That may have been the only reason that they moored there in the first place and to kick them off before the shops open and they can do their shopping is a little harsh.

Roger

 

Oh yes. A later window would work. The timing was just a rough suggestion.

 

My main motive for getting the 'moorings for the disabled' thing standardised would be not only to increase their numbers (are there any in Skipton? I didn't see one) so that when it is, such moorings could be included on the guides, for the information of less-abled boaters.

 

I'm not a fan of the idea of pre-booking them as someone suggested. It would give some staff bod a migraine.)

 

Tone

[David Schweizer]

Certainly with LB Hillingdon it is a test with one of their Occupational Therapists, unless you prove you satisfy the criteria, by getting supplementary evidence from your GP or Consultant. They automatically accept receipt of, being registered blind*, DLA Higher Rate Mobility component or War Pension Mobility Supplement (ie passed the criteria to get a Motability car) as proof for getting a Blue Badge.

 

registered blind* from April 2011 people who are registered blind will be able to get DLA Higher Rate Mobility Allowance / Motability car

Interestingly, it was the L B of Hillingdon (my father lived in South Ruislip).

 

At the time he was registered blind as well as registered deaf and disabled, but they still insisted upon their ridiculous tests despite the fact that it was clear that he was completely worn out by the time he had walked from the car park to the office.

 

I find it difficult to believe that the person he saw was an occupational therapist, they showed very little understanding of my Father's problems, however, this was all more than fifteen years ago, so presumably things have improved since then.

[Guest User]

I do find this strange. the Blue Badge is for the person, not the vehicle. there is a passport image of the disabled person on the card. If someone else uses it without the disabled person being there, it would be a straight forward nick.

 

 

Oh yes. A later window would work. The timing was just a rough suggestion.

 

My main motive for getting the 'moorings for the disabled' thing standardised would be not only to increase their numbers (are there any in Skipton? I didn't see one) so that when it is, such moorings could be included on the guides, for the information of less-abled boaters.

 

I'm not a fan of the idea of pre-booking them as someone suggested. It would give some staff bod a migraine.)

 

Tone

 

How many spaces would you provide at any given location ? I get the impression that there could be quite a high take-up of boating blue badges and a single space during peak cruising season might be inadequate to meet demands. If supermarket car parks are anything to go by, provision of spaces for disabled boaters could then be followed by calls for parent and child spaces.

 

I'm starting to think it might be better NOT to create designated spaces for disabled boaters but to issue a "priority moorer" badge for those with accessibility requirements, these could work anywhere on the system, and as a reminder at honey-pot sites, add signage to remind boaters to offer the towpath mooring to boats displaying the badge ?

[Teakbank12]

There is no such description as "Registered Disabled" any longer.

It's all about being defined by wether you come within the DDA (Disibility Discrimination Act).

A very high percentage of people with Disabilities do not use wheelchairs & have hidden disabilities.

Whenever we are moored up & see people struggling to moor we always come out & ask if they want any assistance.

It can be something as simple as it's a tight mooring space, a windy day or being an inexperienced boater or bad edging to the bank.

I do hope people adopt this method at any time even if the reply is a polite "no i'm ok thanks & don't need assistance".

[Albion]

I do find this strange. the Blue Badge is for the person, not the vehicle. there is a passport image of the disabled person on the card. If someone else uses it without the disabled person being there, it would be a straight forward nick.

 

It would be a straightforward nick if there was anyone to do the nicking. The only Traffic Warden is part time (3 days per week in Skipton, 2 days elsewhere) and the police tend not to bother, unless it is one particular officer who patrols the High Street and he is quite proactive. A couple of the female Community Officers (or whatever they are called) spend most of their time chatting to stall holders in the market

I don't know whether the photos are coming onto the passes only as and when they are renewed but I would say that the majority of passes used in Skipton don't carry the photo at the moment. Some of the passes look quite tired so they definitely aren't recently issued ones; perhaps they will be upgraded if they time expire and have to be renewed. Are there any badges issued that are old style and issued for life because they might not get the photo added I suppose?

 

 

My main motive for getting the 'moorings for the disabled' thing standardised would be not only to increase their numbers (are there any in Skipton? I didn't see one) so that when it is, such moorings could be included on the guides, for the information of less-abled boaters.

There isn't a special disabled mooring in Skipton. In the summer there is great demand on the available moorings as it is so popular and the place is usually chock a block on the 24 hour, 3 day and closest 14 day moorings. Also, BW have made the situation worse now by allowing an ice cream boat to trade from one of the prime spots so that is one less visitor mooring available.

Roger

[canaldrifter]

There is no such description as "Registered Disabled" any longer.

It's all about being defined by wether you come within the DDA (Disibility Discrimination Act).

A very high percentage of people with Disabilities do not use wheelchairs & have hidden disabilities.

Whenever we are moored up & see people struggling to moor we always come out & ask if they want any assistance.

It can be something as simple as it's a tight mooring space, a windy day or being an inexperienced boater or bad edging to the bank.

I do hope people adopt this method at any time even if the reply is a polite "no i'm ok thanks & don't need assistance".

 

Yes, I have experienced this many times. In fact one crew (nb Passin Through,) witnessed me have a fall when trying to moor in high wind, picked me up, moored my boat, shared a pub evening with me, then went out of their way to accompany me on a two day trip to Selby, and finally lent me two lifejackets as they were concerned for my welfare being solo. (I'm still trying to contact them to give the lifejackets back.)

 

Tone

[canaldrifter]

How many spaces would you provide at any given location ? I get the impression that there could be quite a high take-up of boating blue badges and a single space during peak cruising season might be inadequate to meet demands. If supermarket car parks are anything to go by, provision of spaces for disabled boaters could then be followed by calls for parent and child spaces.

 

I'm starting to think it might be better NOT to create designated spaces for disabled boaters but to issue a "priority moorer" badge for those with accessibility requirements, these could work anywhere on the system, and as a reminder at honey-pot sites, add signage to remind boaters to offer the towpath mooring to boats displaying the badge ?

 

I'd only make one mooring available at each location. But your suggestion of a priority moorer badge is a good 'un. It could work well with a disabled mooring scheme. This could then only be issued on the basis of proven DLA middle and high rate recipients before issue. This would by-pass the corrupted Blue Badge system.

 

I reckon such a badge might allow any badge holder to moor anywhere for a max of 24hours, including lock landings etc, (but not water points)....and in conjunction with designated time-controlled moorings for the disabled, it would cut down the usage to those who really need it, so one in each location would be enough.

 

In fact I don't know why they don't do this for vehicles and scrap the Blue Badge scheme.

 

(Just thinking aloud).

 

Tone

[ditchcrawler]

It would be a straightforward nick if there was anyone to do the nicking. The only Traffic Warden is part time (3 days per week in Skipton, 2 days elsewhere) and the police tend not to bother, unless it is one particular officer who patrols the High Street and he is quite proactive. A couple of the female Community Officers (or whatever they are called) spend most of their time chatting to stall holders in the market

I don't know whether the photos are coming onto the passes only as and when they are renewed but I would say that the majority of passes used in Skipton don't carry the photo at the moment. Some of the passes look quite tired so they definitely aren't recently issued ones; perhaps they will be upgraded if they time expire and have to be renewed. Are there any badges issued that are old style and issued for life because they might not get the photo added I suppose?

 

 

I got nicked first time I took MIL to town and parked in a disabled spot with her card in the window. The reason was the card was upside down so they could not see the expiree date, I thought they would want the ID up to see who was in the car. £60 fine, but I appealed and got away with it.

[roger]

There is no such description as "Registered Disabled" any longer.

It's all about being defined by wether you come within the DDA (Disibility Discrimination Act).

A very high percentage of people with Disabilities do not use wheelchairs & have hidden disabilities.

Whenever we are moored up & see people struggling to moor we always come out & ask if they want any assistance.

It can be something as simple as it's a tight mooring space, a windy day or being an inexperienced boater or bad edging to the bank.

I do hope people adopt this method at any time even if the reply is a polite "no i'm ok thanks & don't need assistance".

 

 

Not exactly true. Being registered as disabled meant one had a green card (not the USA workpermit ok?) the green card scheme was disbanded many years ago. It was left to councils and or relevant organisations to determine whether to implement their own registration schemes.

 

Councils still 'register' disabled people otherwise they wouldnt know who needed adaptations and equipment or assistance. Some councils may have registration cards, most dont. Councils need records so that disabled people can benefit, for example, from extra facilities or services the council may offer. Other things (independent of the public services - like applying for a disabled railcard, or extra financial benefits if one happens to be blind) need to be verified by the council, a doctor or ENT's as proof that one is disabled.

 

Most of the legislation concieved under the DDA is no longer applicable, its now the Equality Act 2010.

[gaggle]

I'd only make one mooring available at each location. But your suggestion of a priority moorer badge is a good 'un. It could work well with a disabled mooring scheme. This could then only be issued on the basis of proven DLA middle and high rate recipients before issue. This would by-pass the corrupted Blue Badge system.

 

I reckon such a badge might allow any badge holder to moor anywhere for a max of 24hours, including lock landings etc, (but not water points)....and in conjunction with designated time-controlled moorings for the disabled, it would cut down the usage to those who really need it, so one in each location would be enough.

 

In fact I don't know why they don't do this for vehicles and scrap the Blue Badge scheme.

 

(Just thinking aloud).

 

Tone

 

A lock landing is just that and should be used for that purpose only and only for whatever time it takes to get the boat through , disabled or not dont block the landing points and bollards and rings that are usually there for all to use.

[canaldrifter]

A lock landing is just that and should be used for that purpose only and only for whatever time it takes to get the boat through , disabled or not dont block the landing points and bollards and rings that are usually there for all to use.

 

On many (most?) lock landings there is room for more than one boat.

 

Tone

[Albion]

On many (most?) lock landings there is room for more than one boat.

 

Tone

 

This could be the thin end of the wedge. Once a boater (who doesn't know or doesn't care about the rules) sees another boat moored there then it will encourage copycat activity. The person copying is hardly likely to go to all the trouble of ascertaining that the other boat is a disabled person's boat before just tying up and, once tied up, they're not going to move. I'm not convinced, I'm afraid, that this is a good idea.

Roger

[gaggle]

As it should be but if some boats are allowed to stay on them for 24 hrs they are in the way , out on my own i come across landings at bridges or locks and find boats moored with no intention of moving through , for me to pass i have then to get off with hammer and pins and hope they will hold while the water empties from the lock or empty the lock slowly in case the pins get pulled ,i am classed as disabled but not severely and blocked landings are a pain in the bum ,fair enough provide disabled moorings for them that need them but not on landing points , its not without reason they have the rule not to moor at these places.

Edited February 6, 2011 by gaggle

[Hairy-Neil]

 

Its'oft appreciated that the significant contributor to Blue Badge abuse is "designated drivers" and those, not engaged in conveying disabled people; who use the badge anyway.

 

 

 

That has been the only case that has ever been prosecuted in Skipton. A woman who left the car on double yellows to go into a bank but didn't have the disabled person on board.

 

 

The ones I often see leave the disabled person sitting in the car whilst the designated driver nips to the bank...

 

On street parking in our town is a free for all in the 'loading' bays as everyone knows the trafic warden only visits the town on a wednesday morning.....

[Bimbly1]

Does anyone know how many disabled people use the waterways?

 

I have seen a few over the years, including one couple with a butty witch had a hoist to enable SWMBO to be lifted from the boat to her wheelchair, and a chap with MS, who was a bit wobbly on his feet but ok when sat on a stool steering.

 

What I am asking is whether disabled people have a problem on the canals and if so, how many are there and what would they like to see.

[Keeping Up]

On many (most?) lock landings there is room for more than one boat.

 

Tone

 

I often come across lock landings where a boat has moored so as to take advantage of the bollards furthest from the lock, overlapping the first 10 ft or so of the landing with the end of the boat which they use for getting on and off. The problem is, the landings are often not much more than 70ft long, so when 10ft is obstructed there is not enough room for my boat (67ft long) to use them. When I commented on this to one such long-term moorer a few miles south of here, I was told in no uncertain terms that it was my own **** fault for having too long a boat.

[Guest User]

I'd only make one mooring available at each location. But your suggestion of a priority moorer badge is a good 'un. It could work well with a disabled mooring scheme. This could then only be issued on the basis of proven DLA middle and high rate recipients before issue. This would by-pass the corrupted Blue Badge system.

 

I reckon such a badge might allow any badge holder to moor anywhere for a max of 24hours, including lock landings etc, (but not water points)....and in conjunction with designated time-controlled moorings for the disabled, it would cut down the usage to those who really need it, so one in each location would be enough.

 

In fact I don't know why they don't do this for vehicles and scrap the Blue Badge scheme.

 

(Just thinking aloud).

 

Tone

 

I'd prefer to maintain the present mooring limitations around lock landings, water points, winding holes etc, and apply them to all whether a badge-holder or not.

[mayalld]

On many (most?) lock landings there is room for more than one boat.

 

Tone

 

If BW have gone to the trouble of making a bigger lock landing, it is usually because the lock is often congested.

 

Seldom have I seen ANY locks where there is sufficient lock landing that a boat mooring on it won't cause a boat approaching the lock to have difficulty coming in to wait when the lock is busy

[Neil TNC]

If BW have gone to the trouble of making a bigger lock landing, it is usually because the lock is often congested.

 

Seldom have I seen ANY locks where there is sufficient lock landing that a boat mooring on it won't cause a boat approaching the lock to have difficulty coming in to wait when the lock is busy

 

Tone will love Ireland, where you are encouraged to moor on the lock landings (short and often in awkward spots).

[roger]

Does anyone know how many disabled people use the waterways?

 

I have seen a few over the years, including one couple with a butty witch had a hoist to enable SWMBO to be lifted from the boat to her wheelchair, and a chap with MS, who was a bit wobbly on his feet but ok when sat on a stool steering.

 

What I am asking is whether disabled people have a problem on the canals and if so, how many are there and what would they like to see.

 

I dont think there are any stats. I tried to compile stats some time ago but I faced the attitude of people who 'control' the hierarchy of the waterways. It was clear they did not want change. I could go deeper than this but then I will risk the ire of some at the expense of their misunderstanding of how the equations work.

 

As for the other question, I dont think it is a issue of what we would like to see, because much of it actually comes to an extent from fairly simple common sense and observation. There is one big issue, and that is there is a difference in opinion as to what should be provided because one kind of provision can easily be another person's barrier. But if we can see that there is an effort to make some sensible provisions, we can also help to ensure that it is the most sensible approach that is used, thus lessening any potential conflicts for users.

 

I think there is a massive historical misperception that encourages an idea of not wanting changes to the waterways. But the utterly, most ironic leverage, in this matter is that the waterways end up shooting themselves in the foot. For the waterways were made quite wholly accessible from the very beginning. Even later canals had beautifully level towpaths, innnovative bridge designs, the lot. Why is this?

 

Look at ramps, turnover bridges, etc. The canal engineers built comprehensive accessibility across the canal system. Their graceful structures and innovative designs were amazing. It was an amazing project that was conceived by the canal engineers, for a different type of mobility. That was the boat horse. Of course it was to help waterways operations work smoother, which is the point most people tend to look at. But if we discount that perspective then we are looking at an amazing design that was incredibly innovative. This has been lost to quite an extent through historical destruction and historical ignorance. If it had been people bow-hauling the canal boats, I do not think there would have been such comprehensive provision, because for example where bow-hauling existed the towpaths were usually not of such good design.

 

The paradox is that people seem to think that there shouldnt be any changes to the waterways for disabled users. One of my arguments, which has been lost on a lot of people, is that we are simply taking the waterways back to what they were before. Which is what I thought was what people wanted. Ah, the problem is, when 'disability' comes into the factors, people dont really want to know. They'd rather not see changes. But its so prelapsarian because it harks back to an age that in fact doesnt exist, whilst denying an age that actually existed, but wiped off canal history. Its just the old attitude towards disability, the more hidden it is, the better.

[Gibbo]

...except Gibbo, of course, who I would leave on the offside, pinch his shoes and throw drawing pins on my back deck

 

I find that deeply offensive and am very upset that anyone would take the piss out of the disabled community in such a way. (that's sarcasm, for the benefit of those who are hard of thinking - which actually seems to be quite a lot of people).

 

On the other hand, I wouldn't expect to receive any sort of preferential treatment and I don't know why anyone else should expect it either.

 

You think the candidate astronauts who landed on the moon got preferential treatment just incase they were incapacitated?

 

(PS I went to an antiques sale today - I parked at the far end and walked all the way to the building - took me ages)