Mooring Spaces for the Disabled

[Albion]

They are also issued for 'severe mental impairment'. Our son cannot be taken out without 1:1 support (my husband is fortunately 6'5" and can still physically handle him. At 5'8", I'm no longer strong enough to cope with him alone)

 

Unfortunately, people are WAY too quick to judge. I hate the nastiness that comes from casual passers-by when we have to use the blue badge. Of course, the alternative is not being able to take him out - which isn't an option.

 

I wonder how similar the aggression would be to disabled boaters - it's not good on the roads!

 

I do have sympathy for your particular situation but if you saw how 'so called' blue badgers extract the urine in the street where I live you might have a better understanding of why some believe that others are taking the mickey. I started to post a response to your post yesterday but then thought better of it and deleted it as I didn't want to inflame a situation any more than it was already heading. There are always two sides to any story.

Roger

[NB Alnwick]

I can't find any reference from BW that the blue badge is valid on their waters. Nor can I find whether there is a national scheme, or whether existing moorings have been made on a local BW or on a council basis.

 

waterscape and BW sites are silent on it.

 

Tone

 

I believe the Blue Badge scheme is only for motor vehicles. Last year, when Jane was in a wheelchair, we were made most welcome when we moored on moorings labelled as being for use by disabled persons. More recently, we saw a boat move off the moorings for the disabled at Banbury in order to make way for someone who, clearly, was even more disabled. From what I have seen, I think these arrangements work quite well and are, more or less, regulated by common consent.

 

If we were to arrive at Banbury or Braunston late at night and there were no other moorings available, I would not feel guilty about tying-up to the bollards for the disabled on the understanding that I would have to move if a boat with disabled persons on board arrived subsequently and that, in any event, I would vacate the mooring and be continuing my journey ASAP the following morning.

[Circe]

Oh I can appreciate where they're coming from because there are plenty of people who do abuse the spaces - but watch a few seconds longer and you'll see a child flapping and rocking and eye rolling and humming - anything but normal 10-year-old behaviour.

 

If it wouldn't put him in serious danger, I'd suggest they try and take him round Tesco and then decide if we need a blue badge

[Albion]

The topic hasn't been deleted. It was removed from view in the early hours of the morning so that those areas, that had been the subject of 'reports' (complaints to the site crew), could be investigated properly and deleted or edited as appropriate. Since an identical topic is now up and running, I have saved myself the effort of doing all that and I have moved the original topic, warts and all, to the archive.

 

Graham, Does it take while to get into the Archive as it doesn't seem to be in there? I left it, having tried to cool it down a bit, to go to bed and it was gone this morning. I am curious to see what happened subsequently.

Roger

[NB Alnwick]

Graham, Does it take while to get into the Archive as it doesn't seem to be in there? I left it, having tried to cool it down a bit, to go to bed and it was gone this morning. I am curious to see what happened subsequently.

Roger

 

Many of the topics in the archive are hidden from general view to protect the innocent . . .

[Albion]

Oh I can appreciate where they're coming from because there are plenty of people who do abuse the spaces - but watch a few seconds longer and you'll see a child flapping and rocking and eye rolling and humming - anything but normal 10-year-old behaviour.

 

If it wouldn't put him in serious danger, I'd suggest they try and take him round Tesco and then decide if we need a blue badge

 

This isn't spaces that they are abusing. It is a double-yellow residential road which already has four large mini-coaches parking in it (on blue badges) as there is a disabled (intellectually challenged rather than physically disabled) centre next door. Some of the abuses that I've seen have been inconsiderate (or downright crooked) to put it mildly.

Roger

 

Many of the topics in the archive are hidden from general view to protect the innocent . . .

 

Ah, so they are deleted for the masses but available only to the mods?

Roger

[NB Alnwick]

Ah, so they are deleted for the masses but available only to the mods?

Roger

 

Correct - we have the evidence!

[Circe]

This isn't spaces that they are abusing. It is a double-yellow residential road which already has four large mini-coaches parking in it (on blue badges) as there is a disabled (intellectually challenged rather than physically disabled) centre next door. Some of the abuses that I've seen have been inconsiderate (or downright crooked) to put it mildly.

Roger

 

I can completely believe that. We had to lodge a complaint with the local council because a manager of a children's centre insisted that it was her right to park outside her office (in a designated blue badge space) and no one was going to move her out of it.

 

Needless to say, she had no right to be there and was eventually forced to move to the car park 15 feet away!

 

It's hard where you are because it's not easy to see straight off as to who's ok parking and who's just abusing it. I suppose those who do abuse it give all of us a bad name On the flip side, the abuse we get really does make us think twice about trying to take him out anywhere. It's hard enough having a disabled child and all the stresses and problems that come with that, without people having a go because they perceive an injustice.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Circe

[canaldrifter]

Blue Badge parking and access is limited in York. The council issue a roadmap that shows where Blue Badge holders can park. Lets not forget there is also a three hour limit, and the badges can't be used where there are designated loading bays or pedestrian only roads, except where marked.

 

I am aware that Blue Badges are only for road use. That's why I'm wondering whether BW have ever taken up a policy to recognise them on their waters too. Otherwise, what stops anyone putting a disabled sticker in a boat window and claiming rights to a mooring for the disabled. Disabled window stickers have no legal standing beyond information.

 

If, as it seems at present, mooring spaces for the disabled are respected through good will. Long may it continue.

 

Tone

[carlt]

It's hard enough having a disabled child and all the stresses and problems that come with that, without people having a go because they perceive an injustice.

My son qualifies for a blue badge but I refused it on the grounds that some idiot giving me abuse is far more likely to distress him than using the other spaces.

 

At his next review I may well take it (if I haven't burnt my bridges by turning one down) because he will be of a size, by then, that could present Swmbo with problems, handling him.

[Albion]

Blue Badge parking and access is limited in York. The council issue a roadmap that shows where Blue Badge holders can park. Lets not forget there is also a three hour limit, and the badges can't be used where there are designated loading bays or pedestrian only roads, except where marked

 

Tone

 

Sorry Tone, that just isn't the case. Disabled parking is on double-yellow residential roads as is demonstrated by many cars in Skipton. The 3 hour limit is regularly exceeded by coming back to the car and resetting the clock. The local police and traffic warden, as determined from the course of general conversation with them, won't try to enforce as, quote 'They are untouchable' unquote.

The theory and the practice are two entirely different things.

Roger

[canaldrifter]

Sorry Tone, that just isn't the case.

Roger

 

It is the case in York. I didn't mention Skipton.

 

What I am saying is, Blue Badge privilege violations do attract prosecution in York, but then York is well policed.

 

Tone

[Albion]

It is the case in York. I didn't mention Skipton.

 

What I am saying is, Blue Badge privilege violations do attract prosecution in York, but then York is well policed.

 

Tone

 

But it just proves that you can't use the sensible and well controlled situation in York to help promote an idea to apply universally as other places are not as rigorous in enforcing, whether it be car parking or canals that we are talking about.

I am at a loss to know why one part of North Yorkshire Police is so different to another part in their ideas though. Anywhere is free-for-all for blue badge holders in Skipton however inconsiderately parked...........care to encourage some of the York City Police down here?

Roger

[mayalld]

I believe the Blue Badge scheme is only for motor vehicles.

 

Clearly the blue badge scheme is specifically for motor vehicles.

 

That doesn't mean that it isn't open to BW to create disabled mooring spots that require a blue badge (using s43 powers)

 

However, the questions to be answered are actually;

• Is it a proper thing to do on the canals
• What rules should be applicable

It has often struck me that when visiting some retailers, one can often see 10 empty disabled spaces (along with 5 vehicles with a blue badge, and 5 taking the piss), whilst the rest of the car park is full.

 

My concerns about disabled mooring spaces are that there may not be the demand, and that the result may well be simply to reduce mooring capacity. There is also the consideration that such moorings will be abused, and the same people who arrive a 7pm to find no space, and moor on a water point because they "have no other choice" will see disabled moorings as fair game for a late mooring.

 

For these reasons, I don't believe that permanently designated moorings are appropriate or proportionate.

 

Instead, I would like BW to consider a scheme where there will be at certain locations a section of 24 hour mooring that can be designated on an ad-hoc basis, and a system where disabled boaters can telephone to have the mooring reserved.

[Albion]

paras numbered for ease of identification

 

1. My concerns about disabled mooring spaces are that there may not be the demand, and that the result may well be simply to reduce mooring capacity. There is also the consideration that such moorings will be abused, and the same people who arrive a 7pm to find no space, and moor on a water point because they "have no other choice" will see disabled moorings as fair game for a late mooring.

 

2. For these reasons, I don't believe that permanently designated moorings are appropriate or proportionate.

 

3. Instead, I would like BW to consider a scheme where there will be at certain locations a section of 24 hour mooring that can be designated on an ad-hoc basis, and a system where disabled boaters can telephone to have the mooring reserved.

 

I agree with 1 and 2. As someone who would never have moored on a disabled mooring, even if the rules did allow it in the absence of a disabled boater, I can only see it reducing mooring availability in honeypot areas, often sitting empty because no-one is comfortable mooring there JUST IN CASE a disabled boater comes along. You aren't likely to pick that spot, watch the other suitable spots fill up and then risk being thrown off with nowhere to go when you could have chosen one of the other spots in the first place. That's why the disabled spot will almost inevitably remain unused unless there just happens to be a disabled boater boating late that day.

 

I like the idea in 3 but fear that it is virtually unworkable unless the spot happens to be almost outside a BW office or the disabled boater phones just as they arrive at the spot...(but in that case they could have moored there anyway).

A. How does the person receiving the phone call know whether the space that they want to allocate is still vacant at the time of booking.

B. Who is going to do the legwork when the vacant space is allocated over the phone and someone has to put a notice saying 'Reserved' on the spot.

C. With the funding that is available now how can it be worked?

A good idea in principle but difficult under today's conditions.

Roger

[Bimbly1]

Do we need to formalise disabled moorings? If we are considerate and are aware that a boater, disabled or otherwise needs to moor, would we not offer to let them breast up on the outside, or swap places?

[David Schweizer]

I know this is slightly but as quite a few people have raised questions as to where blue badge holders can park, I thought I would draw attention to the official Department of Transport rules. A copy can be found here:- http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_186198.pdf (pages 14 to 21)

 

I cannot speak for most areas but I do know from my days in the on the Avon Disabilty Awareness Council, that the Police were very hot on prosecuting incorrect usage of a blue badge, something which caused regular arguements between the Police Representative and the Disabled Employee Reps.

Edited February 5, 2011 by David Schweizer

[NB Alnwick]

Do we need to formalise disabled moorings? If we are considerate and are aware that a boater, disabled or otherwise needs to moor, would we not offer to let them breast up on the outside, or swap places?

 

Of course. That is what most decent people would do . . .

[canaldrifter]

How about something like, 'A visitor mooring for the disabled should be left free from 9am until 4pm for the use of disabled boaters, but may be used by anyone outside of those times, if available.'

 

This means that if a line of boats is developing at a honeypot site, the space will be kept there until 4pm, should a disabled boater need it. It also means that if that disabled boater arrives after 4pm, and the mooring is occupied, and the boat owner gone off shopping or to the pub, the disabled boater can moor where they can, but also know that at 9am, they could move up to the disabled mooring on the following morning.

 

Just a thought.

 

Tone

 

Do we need to formalise disabled moorings? If we are considerate and are aware that a boater, disabled or otherwise needs to moor, would we not offer to let them breast up on the outside, or swap places?

 

I think there should be some kind of national code, yes. You can't rely on the goodwill of all boaters, I'm afraid. Those days are long past.

 

At least we should have an agreement from BW (or whatever) that a disabled boater is one who holds a Blue Badge for road use, and not just someone who has a wheelchair sticker in the window.

 

Tone

[Smelly]

If you had ever had to try and get one,

 

You'd know that it's a very subjective test but...

 

I think the real problem, Casp, is there's such a big market for stolen or forged ones,

 

 

Its'oft appreciated that the significant contributor to Blue Badge abuse is "designated drivers" and those, not engaged in conveying disabled people; who use the badge anyway.

 

I work and, sometimes, live n the city centre and the sheer numbers of Blue Badges, that must now be accompanied by an ID badge which strangely -and all too often- don't show the sole person who climbs into the car and drives away,it really get my back up. There's a Bentley & an Aston Martin that park outside the Back to Backs on Hurst St who are blatantly taking the p*ss.

[David Schweizer]

You'd know that it's a very subjective test but...

Oh yes I certainly do, My father was asked to walk unaccompanied following a red line on the floor to see how far he could walk, he could not even see the line because of his sight impairment. and could not easily walk unacompanied. The fact that he was registerd disabled, registered deaf, and registered blind did not seem to give him any excemption from their ridiculously simplistic test. Needless to say after five minutes of informed "negotiation", they gave him his badge.

 

Nowadays most Local Authorities will usually accept a written report from the disabled person's GP or Hospital Consultant.

Edited February 6, 2011 by David Schweizer

[Albion]

Its'oft appreciated that the significant contributor to Blue Badge abuse is "designated drivers" and those, not engaged in conveying disabled people; who use the badge anyway.

 

That has been the only case that has ever been prosecuted in Skipton. A woman who left the car on double yellows to go into a bank but didn't have the disabled person on board. All the rest of the abuses are ignored, despite the rules that are published and well known, because (Genuine quote) They are untouchable (unquote).

 

If there really is a genuine requirement for more disabled moorings in honeypot canal sites (and I remain unconvinced of the need) then I quite like Tony's idea of reserved only from 09.00 - 16.00 and clearly marked as such. It still doesn't overcome the problem of the chancer misusing a disabled badge, as on the roads, though.

One other thing that I've thought of is that, maybe it should be 10.00 - 16.00 so that, in Tony's example, the able-bodied boater can get to the local shops to do, say, food shopping the next morning before having to vacate the mooring. That may have been the only reason that they moored there in the first place and to kick them off before the shops open and they can do their shopping is a little harsh.

Roger

[Circe]

I don't know how much there would be a need for it. I suppose a lot would depend on the mooring and how accessible things were generally. In some places it probably would become much more important than others.Is it worth looking at mooring sites individually? If it's easily accessible and has a decent level towpath that can accommodate a wheelchair or a side-by-side carer I would imagine it might be less of an issue.

 

We wouldn't use a disabled boat space - in part because our son can't manage an overnight on a boat yet (so the point is moot!), but also because towpaths are much quieter and less stressful for him. Despite the water danger, it's actually much easier to manage him beside a canal.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Circe

[carlt]

If anyone turned up and asked to breast up, because of a lack of space, and it appeared that they would have more trouble than me, crossing the two boats, I would offer to move and let their boat lie bankside, regardless of where I was moored....

 

...except Gibbo, of course, who I would leave on the offside, pinch his shoes and throw drawing pins on my back deck

[Albion]

If anyone turned up and asked to breast up, because of a lack of space, and it appeared that they would have more trouble than me, crossing the two boats, I would offer to move and let their boat lie bankside, regardless of where I was moored....

 

...except Gibbo, of course, who I would leave on the offside, pinch his shoes and throw drawing pins on my back deck

 

Any particular size of wooden spoon required Carl?

Roger