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anhar

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Another diesel I am surprised has never been marinised (unless anyone knows different) is the Mercedes. We had a Merc truck that survived for twenty years at one place, did a huge mileage on original engine, and even survvied dumping its oil on the M6 (one big end went) owing to a incorrectly fitted sump plug. The Freight Rovers that replaced this old girl were not in the same league.

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Another diesel I am surprised has never been marinised (unless anyone knows different) is the Mercedes.

snip

I had a job years ago fitting the engines and systems into a production run of boats (Seaworkers & Seariders) for the designer, Les James, The 'standard' engine was the Ford 4D by Dolphin but other engines were an option including Mercs, don't remember where they came from but I fitted 3 or 4.

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I had a job years ago fitting the engines and systems into a production run of boats (Seaworkers & Seariders) for the designer, Les James, The 'standard' engine was the Ford 4D by Dolphin but other engines were an option including Mercs, don't remember where they came from but I fitted 3 or 4.

That is interesting. I am not surprised that Mercs. were used as in my experience they were unbreakable (we used to thrash ours unmercifully). Don't know about the price though! I think Vetus have stayed with the Mitsubishi 4SL fairly simple lump as really they are aimed at sea boats-you need a chance at getting them restarted at sea! Plus this lump has been used for years in tractors and generators around the world especially in third world countries were facilities are at a minimum. Can't speak for Isuzu, Shire etc. 'cause I have never owned any of these engines. My only other experience was a really old Ynamar one potter, which was excellent and simple-no heaters (started first go all weathers) could genuinely be hand started and could run without a battery at all. Again this engine was aimed at auxilliary use in yachts (YSE12) but a few found their way into canal boats.

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Another diesel I am surprised has never been marinised (unless anyone knows different) is the Mercedes. We had a Merc truck that survived for twenty years at one place, did a huge mileage on original engine, and even survvied dumping its oil on the M6 (one big end went) owing to a incorrectly fitted sump plug. The Freight Rovers that replaced this old girl were not in the same league.

I have a merc!

OM321 5l, straight 6

 

Bit big for a narrowboat tho'

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I have a merc!

OM321 5l, straight 6

 

Bit big for a narrowboat tho'

 

 

I have seen several Merc. engines fitted in boats over the years, I don't think they were derivatives of vehicle engines, more a dedicated marine engine with heavy all iron construction. There seem to be many small marine engines made all over the world that are never marketed or even mentioned in this country.

 

My own engine is a 3 cylinder BMW, again not a derivative of any other type but designed purely as a marine engine with all the features that where traditionally included, single side maintenance, 'high up electrics', provision for second starter motor and epoxy paint finish.

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Isuzu 250 hours

Vetus (Mitsubishi) 100 hours

Beta (Kubota) ??? hours

Shire (Yanmar) ??? hours

 

With a new Izuzu you also get a voucher for "Engine spares pack" - free Oil Filter (2off) Fuel Filter and alternator drivebelt.

 

You also get a free days training on how to service it!

http://www.hmiengines.co.uk/inland-waterways.htm

 

You need a service after first 50 hours, then every 250.

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...boats don't need to be efficient because we can still use red diesel, no doubt if we do end up using white diesel, fuel efficiency would become a bigger issue.

- Oil change intervals can often be extended by changing the oils or the filters themselves, which is common practice in the transport sector, where downtime and costs are bigger issues.

From a personal view, i think its a shame that it has become very difficult to service you own car.

- I mean, you pop the bonnet of my parents cars (both peugeots, 2l hdi 806, and a 1.6L 16v petrol 306) and you can even see the engine for the pipes/wires!! Never mind do any work to it.

- The rear screen wash pump on the 306 stoped working over christmas, i spend half an hour under the car with a torch. Couldnt even find the dam thing!!

 

But at the same time, your geting well over 100brake out of a 2L diesal, which is almost as sporty to drive as petrol, does and extra 10miles to the gallon, and gives out less emissions than our 160cc lawnmower on tickover. And compaired to the cars of 50years ago, far more reliable to boot. (Morris Traveller anyone?)

 

 

Daniel

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Thanks Alan for keeping this on topic. All I wanted was a simple enquiry to establish which of the popular modern engines that most builders now fit have the lowest oil change intervals in order to minimise maintanance time, assuming other maintenance chores are probably about the same amongst them all.

 

What I thought was my entirely innocent desire for low maintenance seems to annoy certain readers. I can't see why.

 

regards

Steve

 

Well we had a Nanni diesel on our share boat - a 'modern engine', 43hp with the hydraulic bow thruster option and have to say it never missed a beat - Oil was changed every 250hs with a minor service every 500hrs and believe me that engine was abusedin between times....

 

The only time the electrics were a problem was when something burned out in the back of the control panel and that had nothing to do with the damp - a connection had worked loose and had been shorting across - and was soon fixed.

 

These are the people to speak to if you were interested in finding out a bit more.

 

http://www.peachment.co.uk/nanni.asp

 

 

Len

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I would nominate the Lister Petter Alpha series.

 

1. Oil Change at 200 hrs

2. Major service at 2000 hrs, and to be honest when we did ours it didn't obviously need it.

3. Indirect diesel, but no plug sooting problems like the BMC

4. Well tested design

5. Hydraulic tapets

6. OHV with chain driven cam shaft.

7. Spin on oil filter

8. Paper dispsable or cleanable air filter

9. Easy to change glow plugs

10. Low tech and 18 yr old design so well de-bugged.

 

These are industrial engines used in generators and pumps fairly low reving and low stressed and seem to go on forever. UK built so not cheap.

 

Ours is 16 years old and has just had its first problems which were due to electrical connection issues as a result of boat builder design rather than engine problems.

 

UK Mariniser for Inland Waterways is http://www.marineengine.co.uk/

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I mean, you pop the bonnet of my parents cars (both peugeots, 2l hdi 806, and a 1.6L 16v petrol 306) and you can even see the engine for the pipes/wires!! Never mind do any work to it.

 

I know what you mean, I've an Audi and you cannot even see the engine on that as its covered by a huge plastic cover. Only the oil and water filler caps are visible!

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Interesting to make the link between a good old fashioned well engineered diesel engine and what happened to the modern miracle of the internet and this site in particular this week. Though vastly more complex and more reliable in terms of individual components this lump of electronics we play with every day is still not perfect, things can go wrong.

 

Imagine you and your boat moored up on a navigable drain in the middle of nowhere, yesterday your super modern electronically controlled engine 'just stopped'. What are you going to do, if it was an old fashioned job any diesel mechanic could get it going one way or another at least to get you home. Now the boatyard is telling you to get it back to his yard and he will take a look.

 

But even if you can manage that has he got the £10,000 worth of test gear and £3,000 worth of spare sensors and black boxes needed to stand a chance at fixing your problem and has he got a chap on the staff who knows all about your engine, (he has only sold 7 and there is a Mk 2 version coming out an a few months).

 

The post making the point that commercial shipping relies on advanced electronics was intersting, quite right it does. I was on the bridge of a tanker a few years ago and was surprised to find there was 3 of everything, radio, radar, computers, everything. In fact there are three totally independent control stations, when one breaks down everyone moves on to the next. A good viable system for a super tanker, not so good for a narrowboat.

Edited by John Orentas
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Imagine you and your boat moored up on a navigable drain in the middle of nowhere, yesterday your super modern electronically controlled engine 'just stopped'. What are you going to do, if it was an old fashioned job any diesel mechanic could get it going one way or another at least to get you home. Now the boatyard is telling you to get it back to his yard and he will take a look.

 

But even if you can manage that has he got the £10,000 worth of test gear and £3,000 worth of spare sensors and black boxes needed to stand a chance at fixing your problem and has he got a chap on the staff who knows all about your engine, (he has only sold 7 and there is a Mk 2 version coming out an a few months).

 

The post making the point that commercial shipping relies on advanced electronics was intersting, quite right it does. I was on the bridge of a tanker a few years ago and was surprised to find there was 3 of everything, radio, radar, computers, everything. In fact there are three totally independent control stations, when one breaks down everyone moves on to the next. A good viable system for a super tanker, not so good for a narrowboat.

 

Brilliantly put, John.

 

Commercial shipping, in theory, carries qualified mechanics/engineers aboard.

 

The canals are often near people who will know a bit about engines (other nb owners!) and will happily help you if you break down. If your engine is controlled by electronics etc, they have very little chance of getting it going.

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Brilliantly put, John.

 

Commercial shipping, in theory, carries qualified mechanics/engineers aboard.

 

The canals are often near people who will know a bit about engines (other nb owners!) and will happily help you if you break down. If your engine is controlled by electronics etc, they have very little chance of getting it going.

 

 

 

Alastair.

 

Surprisingly the ship had no permanent technicians in the crew, just a normal electrician, they get things repaired as and when they get the chance usually flying chaps out to meet the ship when in port, but if they don't finish in time they sail with the ship.

 

When I was on board the ship was in dry-dock in Portugal though it operated in the Great Lakes, for several months of the year the lakes are iced up and the ship with the aid of powerful searchlights (that's where I came in) has to follow the channel that the icebreakers make through the ice. If the chap on the helm wasn't concentrating the ship wound prang the edge of the ice hence the trip to Portugal every 2/3 years to have new plating fitted around the waterline. And we think looking after narrowboats is expensive.

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That's interesting, John. When I needed insurance for my barge to cover coastal (inside 3miles) areas, the insurance companies insisted that the crew included a 'competent mechanic'. So I assumed that ships also needed this. Obviously I'm wrong, maybe that explains why they keep breaking down.

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I know dick about boats but I have enough experience with engines for motorcycles and cars, and am more than old enough, to know that modern engines for these vehicles are way more reliable than anything that was around when I was a kid centuries ago. Service intervals have been reduced dramatically. On my car which I bought new about three years ago, it requires servicing only every two years/24,000m, something that was unthinkable thirty years back. And not only are modern vehicles infinitely more reliable but they are more fuel efficient, deliver far greater power output per litre of capacity, and they are smoother and less polluting too.

 

And it's not only the engines that have benefitted from electronics, a whole host of developments concerned with safety and comfort of the vehicle have too, eg. ABS brakes, auto lighting, auto wipers etc.

 

It is ludicrous to suggest that all of this is somehow negative just because a few oilheads cannot deal with the maintenance of modern vehicles themselves. 99% don't want to anyway, those days have gone.

 

In return for the inability of the home DIY amateur to deal with modern maintenance themselves, we have the trade-off of all the above. A more than fair trade in my view.

 

So yes, I'd rather have an ultra modern, fuel efficient, quiet, less polluting electronically controlled narrowboat engine if it were to exist, even if it couldn't be worked on by an amateur, provided the trade-off in return was that the incidence of breakdown was a tiny fraction of that applying to older engines plus the other points I mention regarding greater fuel efficiency, reduced pollution and so on.

 

regards

Steve

Edited by anhar
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I wonder what the owners of Bolinders and the like thought, many years ago, when these fancy new type engines came in.

 

All that highly technical stuff like electric motors to turn the engine over (what's wrong with a handle?). Then there were them new-fangled heater things that meant you didn't have to poke a lighted cigarette down the hole. And as for them thar high tech injector pump thingies, well what would you do if one of those broke down? Nobody would be able to fix one of those would they?

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  • 7 months later...

I have a merc!

OM321 5l, straight 6

 

Bit big for a narrowboat tho'

 

Hi Alastair, I don't suppose you have any manuals or service info for the OM321 do you?

I have the same engine fitted in Inanda (Dutch steel barge) and although I have tracked down a parts book, spare gasket sets (from India!!!) and replacement fuel filters (Fram C11860PL) I cannot find a service manual for things like injector timing.

Any help with this would be very welcome, Kind regards, Andy

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