Jump to content

Winter casualties


Matthew Dowson

Featured Posts

But to pick a silly argument with Phylis about something you know nothing about just makes you look like an idiot, an inexperienced idiot at that.

 

oh how we laughed, is this really your best shot Chris, as last time, random personal insults do not advance the argument...

Edited by MJG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So far as I can tell the Op's example boats are 'sinking' and require immediate attention to avoid being sunk. When I had a boat on a Portsmouth Harbour mooring members of our Club took turns to pump water out of our fellow member's boats and generally ensured that they were safe. It seems that neither the bonhomie of inland boaters nor the exhorbitant fees charged by Marinas provide similar security.

 

Maybe the owners relied too much on an automatic bilge pump? Not only could the batteries be exhausted but, as I found recently, a poor installation could result in ice plugging the hose from the bilge pump. In the recent weather conditions an automatic pump could run 24/7 for a month or more if the outlet was thus obstructed. A well-maintained and greased stern-gland need not admit a single drip so long as the shaft is not rotated.

 

My boat did 'sink' once; it was aground but there was more than a foot of water inside. The pound had been drained and the semi-vee hull (like a Springer) resulted in a severe list and allowed water ingress through the cockpit drains when BW quickly refilled the pound. The mooring owner (not BW) called me at 10pm and I was able to re-float the boat overnight using it's two bilge pumps and the shower pump. The internal water damage is irreversible and BW refused to admit any liability. Previously a neighbouring owner of a similarly sunken boat was allowed a free one-year licence but BW subsequently realised that this could be construed as admission of liability.

 

I will do all I can to ensure that my fellow boaters do not suffer the loss, pollution and long-term condensation problems caused by 'water ingress' or casting adrift etc., etc.

 

Disgusted, K&A

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is this one sunk??

 

 

iqh5is.jpg

 

I can tell you it is, although it is not totally underwater, she is sat on the bottom, most saddening day of my life finding her like that.

My heart goes out to the owners of ANY boat that has sunk this winter. Well anytime , not just winter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Phylis, in the picture you don`t say if you think the cruiser has sunk,submerged,taken on water. Perhaps there`s another cruiser beneath it and we could then class it as mating.

At the end of the day any boat with just a couple of inches of water swilling about inside is devastating for it`s owner so let`s not argue definitions of sunk and just sympathise with the owner and be glad it`s not our boat.

 

The Freeman i photographed has taken on water. I wouldnt say it is sunk as the bow is still floating, well partially airborne but mostly floating. It has since been pumped out and is happily floating again on its home mooring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is this one sunk??

 

 

iqh5is.jpg

 

I can tell you it is, although it is not totally underwater, she is sat on the bottom, most saddening day of my life finding her like that.

My heart goes out to the owners of ANY boat that has sunk this winter. Well anytime , not just winter.

 

Apparently mark thats not sunk, but it bloody looked it to me...I should be a photographer..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apparently mark thats not sunk, but it bloody looked it to me...I should be a photographer..

 

Actually i would say that, that particular boat is sunk. There is no part of it still floating and it is quite obviously sat on the bottom, unlike the boats in the OP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually i would say that, that particular boat is sunk. There is no part of it still floating and it is quite obviously sat on the bottom, unlike the boats in the OP.

 

I had a puncture on one of my wheels on my car, but it was only flat at the bottom, maybe the top half was punctured just the bottom half. :help:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had a puncture on one of my wheels on my car, but it was only flat at the bottom, maybe the top half was punctured just the bottom half. :help:

 

It is entirely up to you how you look at your flat tyre, but a boat cant be sunk if part of it is still floating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So far as I can tell the Op's example boats are 'sinking' and require immediate attention to avoid being sunk. When I had a boat on a Portsmouth Harbour mooring members of our Club took turns to pump water out of our fellow member's boats and generally ensured that they were safe. It seems that neither the bonhomie of inland boaters nor the exhorbitant fees charged by Marinas provide similar security.

 

Maybe the owners relied too much on an automatic bilge pump? Not only could the batteries be exhausted but, as I found recently, a poor installation could result in ice plugging the hose from the bilge pump. In the recent weather conditions an automatic pump could run 24/7 for a month or more if the outlet was thus obstructed. A well-maintained and greased stern-gland need not admit a single drip so long as the shaft is not rotated.

 

 

 

Disgusted, K&A

 

So it only took two pages for someone to write something with a bit of common sense rather than the stupid and self-satisfied crap that came before from people who think they know everything about boating from behind a computer. rather than sit there pontificating like overweight vultures they could perhaps get out and see if there was something they could do to mitigate someone's tragedy.

 

It would be my take, based solely on the pictures, to agree with you and Phylis (stranger things have happened) that they are in imminent danger of sinking.

 

And it's a bit sad that madmark should have to post a picture of his boat sunk to show the difference. I too have had a boat sink through bilge pump failure (= operator error) and can assure you that the boats in the OP are almost certainly saveable before they sink.

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So it only took two pages for someone to write something with a bit of common sense rather than the stupid and self-satisfied crap that came before from people who think they know everything about boating from behind a computer. rather than sit there pontificating like overweight vultures they could perhaps get out and see if there was something they could do to mitigate someone's tragedy.

 

It would be my take, based solely on the pictures, to agree with you and Phylis (stranger things have happened) that they are in imminent danger of sinking.

 

And it's a bit sad that madmark should have to post a picture of his boat sunk to show the difference. I too have had a boat sink through bilge pump failure (= operator error) and can assure you that the boats in the OP are almost certainly saveable before they sink.

 

Oh dear. Its going to be one of those days :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From dictionary.com

 

To sink

 

–verb (used without object)

1. to displace part of the volume of a supporting substance or object and become totally or partially submerged or enveloped; fall or descend into or below the surface or to the bottom (often fol. by in or into ): The battleship sank within two hours. His foot sank in the mud. Her head sinks into the pillows.

 

my bold.

 

Pedants corner: Were discussing "sunk" not "sink". Fine, the definition of "sink" or "to sink" maybe to be partially submerged, but in the very definition you cite it gives the example "The battleship sank within two hours". If "sunk" is partially submerged (your bold) then the moment the battleship started taking on water it was "sunk", not after two hours. "Sunk" means you've finished "sinking".

 

And I make no apologies for enjoying the linguistic debate rather than morbidly poring over tragedy. Shove up, Phylis, I'm sitting next to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To sink is a verb but if we use sunk as an adjective, i.e. a sunk boat, sunk describing the condition of the boat. The definition of sunk as an adjective appears to be doomed to extinction so perhaps it matter not how far down the boat has descended, it depends on it's likelihood of being brought back from the brink of extinction?

If we use sunk as the past participle of sink then one definition is to descend below the surface

 

I put this here for enjoyment:

 

v., sank (săngk), or sunk (sŭngk), sunk, sink·ing, sinks.

v.intr.

To descend to the bottom; submerge.

To fall or drop to a lower level, especially to go down slowly or in stages: The water in the lake sank several feet during the long, dry summer.

To subside or settle gradually, as a massive or weighty structure.

To appear to move downward, as the sun or moon in setting.

To slope downward; incline.

To pass into a specified condition: She sank into a deep sleep.

To deteriorate in quality or condition: The patient is sinking fast. The family sank into a state of disgrace.

To diminish, as in value.

To become weaker, quieter, or less forceful: His voice sank to a whisper.

To drop or fall slowly, as from weakness or fatigue: The exhausted runner sank to the ground.

To feel great disappointment or discouragement: Her heart sank within her.

To seep or soak; penetrate: The water is sinking into the ground.

To make an impression; become felt or understood: The meaning finally sank in.

v.tr.

To cause to descend beneath a surface: sink a ship.

To cause to drop or lower: sank the bucket into the well.

To force into the ground: sink a piling.

To dig or drill (a mine or well) in the earth.

To occupy the full attention of; engross.

To make weaker, quieter, or less forceful.

To reduce in quantity or worth.

To debase the nature of; degrade.

To bring to a low or ruined state; defeat or destroy.

To suppress or hide: He sank his arrogance and apologized.

Informal. To defeat, as in a game.

To invest: sink money into a new housing project.

To invest without any prospect of return.

To pay off (a debt).

Sports. To get (a ball) into a hole or basket.

 

 

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/sink#ixzz1BfIfCx2v

 

From all the above I would say that you are all right and now it is time to move on ...

:cheers:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

I put this here for enjoyment:

 

 

 

Whereas it may be jolly to debate the finer points of language while some poor geezer or geezette is wading about in freezing water trying to save their pride and joy. I am sure that at least one of the idiots debating on here is near enough to go and make a difference.

 

As for definitions of sunk. With a narrowboat on a shallow canal it will be obvious to anyone with half a brain and true experience that a boat with gunwhales under is sunk, one that is resting on the bottom with gunwhales out is "partially submerged" and that one afloat, albeit with a large quantity of water shipped is 'sinking'.

 

If you want to be truly pedantic then I could do worse than quote a wooden boat owning friend - 'all boats take on water, if the water is pumped out slower than it comes in then it is sinking'

 

What is it about the arse end of January that means that common sense and simple compassion for fellow boaters are thrown out the window in favour of smug point scoring?

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whereas it may be jolly to debate the finer points of language while some poor geezer or geezette is wading about in freezing water trying to save their pride and joy. I am sure that at least one of the idiots debating on here is near enough to go and make a difference.

 

As for definitions of sunk. With a narrowboat on a shallow canal it will be obvious to anyone with half a brain and true experience that a boat with gunwhales under is sunk, one that is resting on the bottom with gunwhales out is "partially submerged" and that one afloat, albeit with a large quantity of water shipped is 'sinking'.

 

If you want to be truly pedantic then I could do worse than quote a wooden boat owning friend - 'all boats take on water, if the water is pumped out slower than it comes in then it is sinking'

 

What is it about the arse end of January that means that common sense and simple compassion for fellow boaters are thrown out the window in favour of smug point scoring?

 

I don't think anyone was trying to be smug and certainly not unfeeling, but language is enjoyable for some and I think it somewhat arrogant of you to try to deny them the right to debate the finer points, you don't have to participate, or even read the posts. Common sense and the true meaning of words are not always synonymous and it is nice to know the correct meaning, even if they are often not used in the correct way sometimes, don't you think so? Meanings also change with time so their development is also interesting for some.

 

I am sure that anyone able to help a fellow boater would do so, I greatly admire Heffalumps efforts as detailed elsewhere, so perhaps the nickers got a bit twisted?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whereas it may be jolly to debate the finer points of language while some poor geezer or geezette is wading about in freezing water trying to save their pride and joy. I am sure that at least one of the idiots debating on here is near enough to go and make a difference.

 

As for definitions of sunk. With a narrowboat on a shallow canal it will be obvious to anyone with half a brain and true experience that a boat with gunwhales under is sunk, one that is resting on the bottom with gunwhales out is "partially submerged" and that one afloat, albeit with a large quantity of water shipped is 'sinking'.

 

If you want to be truly pedantic then I could do worse than quote a wooden boat owning friend - 'all boats take on water, if the water is pumped out slower than it comes in then it is sinking'

 

What is it about the arse end of January that means that common sense and simple compassion for fellow boaters are thrown out the window in favour of smug point scoring?

 

Cabin Fever?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone was trying to be smug and certainly not unfeeling, but language is enjoyable for some and I think it somewhat arrogant of you to try to deny them the right to debate the finer points, you don't have to participate, or even read the posts. Common sense and the true meaning of words are not always synonymous and it is nice to know the correct meaning, even if they are often not used in the correct way sometimes, don't you think so? Meanings also change with time so their development is also interesting for some.

 

I am sure that anyone able to help a fellow boater would do so, I greatly admire Heffalumps efforts as detailed elsewhere, so perhaps the nickers got a bit twisted?

 

I'm a boater, threads about boats sinking will, of course, concern and interest me, not for the language but for the event and whether there is anything I can do to help in what is probably a boater's second worst nighmare.

 

Perhaps you think that OP just wanted a gentle debate about the use of language?

 

Language, I will point out, is simply a method of communication so it doesn't matter whether you call the boats sunk, sinking or drikking, it is the communication of the event that is of concern (or should be).

 

Cabin Fever? Yes, probably, though more like a general need to get out more and get a life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If a boat has negative boyancy it has sunk.

 

If a boat has decreasing positive boyancy it is sinking.

 

If a boat has decreasing positive boyancy, but has come to rest on the bottom, it is partially sunk.

 

If a boat has decreasing positive boyancy, but the gunnels have gone under the water line, it has gone "gunnels under", and is sinking, but hasn't completely sunk.

 

If a boat has static negative boyancy, but has come to rest on the bottom, some one has put too much in it...

 

If a boat has static positive boyancy, but has come to rest on the bottom, the bottom is too close to the top!

 

However, for general use, if a boat has let in water such that it is the same hight outside and is no longer dropping down into the water, I'd say "sunk" is just as valid term.

 

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If a boat has negative boyancy it has sunk.

 

If a boat has decreasing positive boyancy it is sinking.

 

If a boat has decreasing positive boyancy, but has come to rest on the bottom, it is partially sunk.

 

If a boat has decreasing positive boyancy, but the gunnels have gone under the water line, it has gone "gunnels under", and is sinking, but hasn't completely sunk.

 

If a boat has static negative boyancy, but has come to rest on the bottom, some one has put too much in it...

 

If a boat has static positive boyancy, but has come to rest on the bottom, the bottom is too close to the top!

 

However, for general use, if a boat has let in water such that it is the same hight outside and is no longer dropping down into the water, I'd say "sunk" is just as valid term.

 

Mike

 

Our dinghy is constantly sunk then, depsite the fact it is still (somehow) floating :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a boater, threads about boats sinking will, of course, concern and interest me, not for the language but for the event and whether there is anything I can do to help in what is probably a boater's second worst nighmare.

 

Perhaps you think that OP just wanted a gentle debate about the use of language?

 

Language, I will point out, is simply a method of communication so it doesn't matter whether you call the boats sunk, sinking or drikking, it is the communication of the event that is of concern (or should be).

 

Cabin Fever? Yes, probably, though more like a general need to get out more and get a life.

 

:smiley_offtopic: ?

I have not noticed that topics here are all about one thing! They generally have at least two threads going and these often go off at tangents like rockets on Nov 5th! Or am I mixing metaphors?

I agree that a sinking boat is truly a nightmare and I feel really sorry for anyone that has experienced it; what's the worst though?

I am sorry if you are stressed by your boating at present, at present I am luxuriating in 25C temperatures - why not fly out and join me for a couple of weeks and get a new lease of life?

Definitely - language is a means of communication first and foremost, but that doesn't mean that the study of language for it's own sake cannot be enjoyable, after all good communication depends upon knowing what you are saying.

I would also note that email type communication is very limiting - even with smileys the meaning and harshness of comments can be easily misinterpreted.

Anyway - as they say out here - have a good day!

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

what's the worst though?

Mmmm...Let's see...

 

Having to explain to your son why he no longer has any toys?

Only having the clothes you stand up in?

Having all your possessions contaminated with dirty canal water?

Binning everything you had that was electrical...TV, laptop, sound system, tools, inverter, gennie, etc, etc.

Getting poisonous comments because you've had to put all your soaked possessions onto the bank.

Being broke because you have to replace all your clothes, food, electricals, etc.

Standing on the bank, at 4am, looking at what was once your home that, by anyone's definition, is sunk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:smiley_offtopic: ?

I have not noticed that topics here are all about one thing! They generally have at least two threads going and these often go off at tangents like rockets on Nov 5th! Or am I mixing metaphors?

I agree that a sinking boat is truly a nightmare and I feel really sorry for anyone that has experienced it; what's the worst though?

I am sorry if you are stressed by your boating at present, at present I am luxuriating in 25C temperatures - why not fly out and join me for a couple of weeks and get a new lease of life?

Definitely - language is a means of communication first and foremost, but that doesn't mean that the study of language for it's own sake cannot be enjoyable, after all good communication depends upon knowing what you are saying.

I would also note that email type communication is very limiting - even with smileys the meaning and harshness of comments can be easily misinterpreted.

Anyway - as they say out here - have a good day!

 

I do like a nice mixed metaphor, difficult to be stressed with my feet on a toasty radiator. Though I wouldn't say no to a burst of bright bright sun, thank you for your kind offer.

 

Of course, it is a matter of opinion but I would say the true killer, fire, was this boater's worst nightmare.

 

I like debate about language too, my ideal scenario would be a discussion, with the humour of Mike's post above, after a long day making sure there was no ambiguity about describing of the boats in the OP as afloat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do like a nice mixed metaphor, difficult to be stressed with my feet on a toasty radiator. Though I wouldn't say no to a burst of bright bright sun, thank you for your kind offer.

 

Of course, it is a matter of opinion but I would say the true killer, fire, was this boater's worst nightmare.

 

I like debate about language too, my ideal scenario would be a discussion, with the humour of Mike's post above, after a long day making sure there was no ambiguity about describing of the boats in the OP as afloat.

:cheers:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

freema10.jpg

 

It caused a stir in the marina though

 

 

I met this boat, and its owner at Torksey last year. nice chap who was trundling up to Newark to met his girlfriend.

 

by all accounts he'd put heaps of work into her, and she was looking lovely. Sunken boats make Fuzzyduck cry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.