Jump to content

Recording Stuido Power


Bob Blues

Featured Posts

Ive skimed from halfway down page to.

 

However in my mind, for that, if you in a marina make sure it how mains power and just plug in.

If you going to be out and about occasionally, run the main engine which a wacking great alternator.

If you going to be away from the grid permanently, dedicated well silenced diesel water cooled genset.

 

 

Daniel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Bob,

 

I've just witnessed a friend of mine build a home studio and spend an huge amount of effort (not necessarily cost) on noise insulation. It might not be a problem for you (guess it depends on what quality of recording you're aiming for), but ANY generator (not just yours!) will be heard by mikes, as will the wind whistling through mushroom vents, passing boats, walkers on the towpath, rain on the roof, local wildlife etc. Alot could depend on your mooring location and how often and for how long you'll be recording for as to whether it's a problem.

 

I know it's not related to your question about electrics; but them battery banks and invertors aren't going to help if your backing tracks are full of quacks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BOB,,

[/Quote]

Well you got my name right that's one thing and there is no need to shout!

 

Ive said it several times before, too others, but didnt you do any research first before getting a boat and then trying to get the limited battery / electrics to produce an amount of power that most boaters just dont need,

 

Yr sense of reality is a tadge distorted - take a long an 11kw generator,,, hope you have a suitable deck space, mind you it might balance the hammond up if its on the opposing side.

 

you will need to invest in more batterys larger invertor etc and the gennie - I have the small honda - its ok to top your starter batteries or the 12v lights etc, but you'd have to run it continually to make any mark and as has been pinted out that really isnt an option,

 

hence why your getting the feedback

 

[/Quote]

 

I will hire a 11Kva from the Stage supply people when I’m tied up and running a Recording session which will need that power when my friends come over from the states and not install it on my boat or even tow it behind on a Raft! I have a Little Honda Gen for day to day use which will provide my power. We may even do some free concerts for the local kids home that normally happens. I Also said I will never run the equipment all at once! And to make you sleep easier, I did do my research and had a number of extra Leisure batteries fitted. Big ones too! I also chose my boat with adequate Inverter (as my first post says) so my question was how long can I expect my batteries to last. Running at 1.4 KW. All I required was someone to say you will get 1 hrs. or 50 mins or even 45 which was quoted.

 

However, this thread has turned out to be a Bob basing session or “let’s all give him negative feedback so he might he might leave” Well think again! I’m a 52 year old Ex-soldier who has seen more life in 1 month that you will ever see in your lifetime.

 

Am I bitter about this Bob Bashing, Nope Just sad that all you want to do is be negative against me. Live is too short to be angry. Do I still like you, of course I do, I will always give a stranger the benefit of my hand before they stab me and lay my heart open to the ravenous birds of the air of devouring beast of the field.

 

and as for a gun, your comments (maybe in jest) but taken as written quoted comment re protection / seld defence / anti burglary show that you are not a suitable person to have a shotgun. give up the macho stuff please

 

Now about this macho comment. What is macho about living off the land I have done it all my life. I asked getting a shotgun license for my boat or should I say renew my license if you bothered to read it was a .410 not a 12 gauge. This is a single shot single barrel used for rabbits not a Pump action sawn off mayhem device.

 

Yes Sir, the Vermin quip was in jest, after 82 I swore I would never use a gun against a person again, I’ve seen too much bloodshed in my life to ever want to deprive anyone of their life even if some Rat who decide my studio is fair game. They may get what they deserve but I don’t need a gun to stop somone my things. As I said Minimum Force!

 

Now, to put you at ease, I am suitable actually to own a Shotgun and I have the papers to prove it. What worries me is you adn others have taken a Vvindictive side against me, you don’t know me but already you have made a decision that I am a bad person.

 

I also take offence at your Macho comment in this day and age who are you to decide. What is Macho? I have a lady friend who owns two shotguns and regular shots game and clay. Is she Macho? If a Lady wants to live off the land what are you going to call her? A Les.... My friend Lynn in America has a Pink 375 Hunting Rifle is that macho? She shoots dear when the season is starts.

 

Just because you do not agree with guns and we are talking shotguns here not Automatic weapons, that doesn’t mean you are right or you have the right to start calling me names!

 

As always Kind Regards

 

Bob B

 

Hi Bob,

 

I've just witnessed a friend of mine build a home studio and spend an huge amount of effort (not necessarily cost) on noise insulation. It might not be a problem for you (guess it depends on what quality of recording you're aiming for), but ANY generator (not just yours!) will be heard by mikes, as will the wind whistling through mushroom vents, passing boats, walkers on the towpath, rain on the roof, local wildlife etc. Alot could depend on your mooring location and how often and for how long you'll be recording for as to whether it's a problem.

 

I know it's not related to your question about electrics; but them battery banks and invertors aren't going to help if your backing tracks are full of quacks!

 

Thank you for your reply,

 

I have thought this through, and most of the recording is done through line sockets so I just need enough battery to put the vocals down. I had installed extra batteries when I bought the boat. I just needed to know how long 5 batteries would last. If I record the Hammond through the Leslie I have 3 mikes close to the case so I don’t get anything else but what I want. There is nothing like A Hammond and Leslie at full chat with all 9 pulled to the stops!

 

Old mikes can pick up everything but the ones I use do not. I also have Noise surrounds on the mikes so only the voice is picked up.

 

Of course this doesn’t stop some prat honking when they see my boat tied up some ware. Hey look it’s Bob I bet he’s recording Lets Honk! ROFL. I was recording in Maine last year for my Radio show and every time I start to record an interview with Shakura S'Aida some idiot blew his horn on his powerboat. Arse!

 

Bob B

 

An 11kW generator, lots of amplification, a man who is hearing impaired - this idea has 'statutory noise nuisance' written all over it.

 

I don't know of any Environmental Health Officer who has actually impounded kit from a boat, but rest assured that they do have the power to do so - and quite probably would, too. The canal isn't the place for a noise-making business. The 'best practicable means' to prevent noise nuisance is to do it in a properly insulated building, not a boat made of 4mm steel with holes.

 

 

8 people sitting around with Earphones on. Hmmm 'statutory noise nuisance'

 

You guess and make assumptions yet you speak with your arse instead of your brain.

Edited by Bob Blues
  • Greenie 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

just some points bob...i dont think what you propose is impossible as long as you do it smart.ie.as few things turned on at anyone time for as short a time as possible.

you can buy amp attenuators these days to bring down the vol. of amps.i dont know how good they are but its an option if you have neighbors.if i was you i would take myself into the country with the gennie of choice that can be safely left on towpath.no neighbours,no politics,less restrictions.plus,you can allways shoot some dinner.another thing to bear in mind when using a mic....rain tapping on roof,sqeeking fenders in wind,happy blackbirds etc,outside windows.sing at night,if possible.

good luck...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

gennie of choice that can be safely left on towpath.

isn't that an oxymoron? safely+towpath. I seem to recall there being several threads on here, where people had their gennies nicked from the towpath. Some of them, while they were onboard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its late here...and I am not in UK and an hour ahead...

Being tired...this is what I think..but I may have misread things...

 

I always 'very roughly' work out that for every 1 amphour you invert to 240 volts..you draw 20 amphours from the 12 volt batteries...this is rough because you have invertor losses etc..and the bateries will not be 12 volts..they will be higher..its rough OK !!

If you run 1.4Kwh @ 240 volts ...thats roughly (diving 1400 by 240 volts..see I said it was rough)...6 amphours....so that makes it 120 amphours from the batteries at 12 volts..

6 (at 240 volts) x 20 (at 12 volts)

If you have 5 x 135 amphouor leisure battgeries..thats an ideal world total of 675 amps for an hour...BUT they must not drop below or get near to 50% state of charge..so thats roughly (again) 337 amphours...

Taking into account that they won't hold up this level after a few months use..and temperatures come into play..I would not push them to more than 2 hours use...

THe real problem is monitoring it..because you play a loud note...and the consumption will go up...so it will not be easy to judge state of charge based on average use over ..say an hour..

 

This may be all twaddle and cr*p....and my theory of Brotasauruses is..'they are thin at one end..they get thick in the middle..and then thin at the other end'

 

Bob..the bass.....Bobbybass

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its late here...and I am not in UK and an hour ahead...

Being tired...this is what I think..but I may have misread things...

 

I always 'very roughly' work out that for every 1 amphour you invert to 240 volts..you draw 20 amphours from the 12 volt batteries...this is rough because you have invertor losses etc..and the bateries will not be 12 volts..they will be higher..its rough OK !!

If you run 1.4Kwh @ 240 volts ...thats roughly (diving 1400 by 240 volts..see I said it was rough)...6 amphours....so that makes it 120 amphours from the batteries at 12 volts..

6 (at 240 volts) x 20 (at 12 volts)

If you have 5 x 135 amphouor leisure battgeries..thats an ideal world total of 675 amps for an hour...BUT they must not drop below or get near to 50% state of charge..so thats roughly (again) 337 amphours...

Taking into account that they won't hold up this level after a few months use..and temperatures come into play..I would not push them to more than 2 hours use...

THe real problem is monitoring it..because you play a loud note...and the consumption will go up...so it will not be easy to judge state of charge based on average use over ..say an hour..

 

This may be all twaddle and cr*p....and my theory of Brotasauruses is..'they are thin at one end..they get thick in the middle..and then thin at the other end'

 

Bob..the bass.....Bobbybass

 

You are more-or-less correct except that there is an additional complication that if you take the energy quickly from your batteries by using a high current, they run down more quickly. Think of it as similar to the way you get fewer miles-per-gallon from your car if you drive quickly. In batteries it is called the Peukert effect. This is the effect I was taking into account in my early post above where I said :

 

From a quick back-of-an-envelope estimate, I'd say that from a fully charged set of brand new batteries you should be able to run your studio for about an hour and a quarter. In practice, starting with batteries that are slightly used (down to say 75% of their brand-new power) and are perhaps only 90% charged when you start, that time would be only about 45 minutes.

 

 

On this I was assuming 110 Ah batteries. With the 135 Ah batteries that you mention here, the figures improve slightly, to a maximum of 1 hour 40 minutes when everything is new and perfect. Your final real-world figure of about an hour is a realistic conclusion, and even that is going to mean you will be replacing your batteries quite often.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well you got my name right that's one thing and there is no need to shout!

 

 

 

I will hire a 11Kva from the Stage supply people when I’m tied up and running a Recording session which will need that power when my friends come over from the states and not install it on my boat or even tow it behind on a Raft! I have a Little Honda Gen for day to day use which will provide my power. We may even do some free concerts for the local kids home that normally happens. I Also said I will never run the equipment all at once! And to make you sleep easier, I did do my research and had a number of extra Leisure batteries fitted. Big ones too! I also chose my boat with adequate Inverter (as my first post says) so my question was how long can I expect my batteries to last. Running at 1.4 KW. All I required was someone to say you will get 1 hrs. or 50 mins or even 45 which was quoted.

 

However, this thread has turned out to be a Bob basing session or “let’s all give him negative feedback so he might he might leave” Well think again! I’m a 52 year old Ex-soldier who has seen more life in 1 month that you will ever see in your lifetime.

 

Am I bitter about this Bob Bashing, Nope Just sad that all you want to do is be negative against me. Live is too short to be angry. Do I still like you, of course I do, I will always give a stranger the benefit of my hand before they stab me and lay my heart open to the ravenous birds of the air of devouring beast of the field.

 

 

 

Now about this macho comment. What is macho about living off the land I have done it all my life. I asked getting a shotgun license for my boat or should I say renew my license if you bothered to read it was a .410 not a 12 gauge. This is a single shot single barrel used for rabbits not a Pump action sawn off mayhem device.

 

Yes Sir, the Vermin quip was in jest, after 82 I swore I would never use a gun against a person again, I’ve seen too much bloodshed in my life to ever want to deprive anyone of their life even if some Rat who decide my studio is fair game. They may get what they deserve but I don’t need a gun to stop somone my things. As I said Minimum Force!

 

Now, to put you at ease, I am suitable actually to own a Shotgun and I have the papers to prove it. What worries me is you adn others have taken a Vvindictive side against me, you don’t know me but already you have made a decision that I am a bad person.

 

I also take offence at your Macho comment in this day and age who are you to decide. What is Macho? I have a lady friend who owns two shotguns and regular shots game and clay. Is she Macho? If a Lady wants to live off the land what are you going to call her? A Les.... My friend Lynn in America has a Pink 375 Hunting Rifle is that macho? She shoots dear when the season is starts.

 

Just because you do not agree with guns and we are talking shotguns here not Automatic weapons, that doesn’t mean you are right or you have the right to start calling me names!

 

As always Kind Regards

 

Bob B

 

 

 

Thank you for your reply,

 

I have thought this through, and most of the recording is done through line sockets so I just need enough battery to put the vocals down. I had installed extra batteries when I bought the boat. I just needed to know how long 5 batteries would last. If I record the Hammond through the Leslie I have 3 mikes close to the case so I don’t get anything else but what I want. There is nothing like A Hammond and Leslie at full chat with all 9 pulled to the stops!

 

Old mikes can pick up everything but the ones I use do not. I also have Noise surrounds on the mikes so only the voice is picked up.

 

Of course this doesn’t stop some prat honking when they see my boat tied up some ware. Hey look it’s Bob I bet he’s recording Lets Honk! ROFL. I was recording in Maine last year for my Radio show and every time I start to record an interview with Shakura S'Aida some idiot blew his horn on his powerboat. Arse!

 

Bob B

 

 

 

 

8 people sitting around with Earphones on. Hmmm 'statutory noise nuisance'

 

You guess and make assumptions yet you speak with your arse instead of your brain.

 

Do you want to take a deep breath, and think again.

 

This is not a Bob bashing session.

 

You asked a question, and clearly you imagined that it had a simple answer.

 

The problem was that the question did not have a simple answer, and the asking of the question suggested that there were other issues that you might want to consider.

 

The answer to your original question is that you will probably manage to run that setup for about 45 minutes - ONCE, and once only.After that you will have two issues, namely that the rapid discharge will have reduced your battery capacity, and that you don't have sufficient capacity to recharge 675Ah of batteries in a reasonable time (which will further reduce their capacity).

 

You mention hiring in an 11KVA generator when you need it, but this has to raise other concerns. People go to the canals to get some peace and quiet, and if somebody starts running mini power plants on the towpath, they are going to complain to BW. To say nothing of the fact that your on board 240V system will be wired in 2.5mm arctic flex, with a 16A commando, and isn't rated for all that extra power.

 

Then you keep playing this whole "ex-soldier" thing, as if this somehow means that you should be treated differently from mere mortals.

 

You are welcome here, but if you ask for advice, you will get advice, including advice that says things you don't want it to say.

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bob, I have been a musician for over 45 years, with over 30 years also as a commercial studio owner and sound engineer. I feel that some of your requirements and expectations may be unrealistic.

 

You mention minimal noise nuisance problems as you and your friends will be wearing headphones, but you also talk of recording a Leslie cabinet with microphones against the cabinet. As a Hammond/leslie player, then you will know as well as I that a Leslie cabinet needs to be driven fairly hard to get the full leslie effect, but more to the point, the leslie effect is obtained from the doppler effect of the sound emanating from the rotating horns at varying speeds. This changes the apparent pitch and tone of the sound and to record the sound effectively, it is neccessary to mic the cabinet at a distance of several feet using a stereo pair. This would be totally impractical within the confines of a boat, not only because of the lack of space but also by the sound being spoiled by the sufaces and low ceiling. There is also the virtually insurmountable problem of external sounds in a boat environment, which frequently carry through the water and hull. A good quality Leslie simulator will give muuch better results in the environment that you are looking at.

 

As for older mics being more sensitive, I would have to disagree here, as modern mic technology allows for greater sensitivity and wider frequency ranges. There are of course many more types of mics available these days which pick up short ranges and within defined frequencies, such as various contact mics for drum kits. Your need for recording live vocals though, would, if you want high quality, require something akin to the Neumann U87 or equivalent, perhaps a Rode condensor at a lower budget. You will also be aware of course that mikes like the Neumann are notorious for picking up the sound of 'a dog licking it's bollocks at 20ft' to use an old studio term. It would certainly pick up the sound of even a heavily silenced generator 50 ft away. Mics like the Shure SM58 for instance, are less sensitive, but won't give a voice quality suitable for studio work, although great for guitar. If you are intending live vocal broadcast as a voice over, then you will need an extremely well sound insulated vocal booth at minimum.

 

Any 'real' instrument sounds, such as acoustic guitar, wind instruments etc, will also require a booth but also with heavily proofed floor and ceiling, as low frequency sound travels extremely easily through the water and the boat structure.

 

I understand your love of your keyboards, but away from live gigging, apart from the Hammond with it's unique sound, you must remember that all of the others are not 'real instrument' sounds, they are modified and filtered LFOs and HFOs or on some keyboards mixed with sampled sounds. All of these are basically sound modules with a keyboard attached, and all of the input from the keyboard is using midi controllers, even if you are not using the midi outs. This means that good modern sound modules or vst instruments can reproduce those sounds exactly, meaning that you don't need to sacrifice all that space and power for gigging instruments.

 

No longer having access to full studio facilities, I recently finished recording an album on my boat, with 5 part vocals, acoustic and elctric guitars and using a wide array of vst instruments. I used Cubase vst, using a wide range of plug in effects, such as noise gates, equalisers, vitalisers, limiter/compressors, amp simulators, reverbs etc etc. Orchestral sounds were from Garritan personal Orchestra via a master keyboard controller. The whole lot was done on a laptop and the end result was, I feel, as good as anything I could have achieved in my last 48 track digital studio. Best of all, there was little power consumption and only minor noise problems from outside.

 

Just think of Live and studio as totally different, and be open to trying alternatives. They are frequently as good and often much better in the recording situation.

 

Roger

  • Greenie 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi again...

Waffling again...

 

As per the post above this one....I didn't think about the sheer amount of power from 11Kva.

Namely..over 40 amps !!...so as the poster said..its unlikely your boat is wired to take that. I know..that if I take out my 240volt sockets...they would be hard pushed to do 13 amps...without some new pyro effects.

 

I use a £200 notebook and run Cubase VST 5 ( a special verison Steinberg gave me that is totally bug free and very memory efficient)

I use VST..Virtual guitarist...LM4 drums..Bassist...B4...The Grand..and a variety of instruments I have collected over the years. If I want great orchestral samples..I Yoke Reason to VST5 and use the samples there..and also multipart vocals..and live guitars etc...

I do most of this over headphones...using an Alesis IO2 for ,low latency..and mikes...but playback over some nice little Alesis monitors for checking final 'mix'

 

Many of the things I do are in the line of radio Idents and jingles..including for BBC locals...holiday companies etc...and I haven't had any complaints..

 

I also work with a writer..who sends stuff by internet..and I master..and email back..

 

I'm not knocking what you do..just giving you an idea of what I do...and how it works for me..

I like Virtual instruments..but can see how you enjoy the sound of a hammond and Leslie..

Its a bit like Harry Hill isn't it !!..

Which is better...?...FIGHT !!

 

Bob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.