Jump to content

Ramming the lockgates?


NigelJ

Featured Posts

I don't have enough experience of the bottom of lock gates to know. I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of a cast iron pintle mounted into the cill that works in a cast iron socket in the gate. But as I said, I'm not an expert.

 

Richard

 

Yes, I've got one of that type (the two component parts) that I painted and put in the garden. Also got one which is is a cast half ball with a stud on it, that goes into the bottom of the gate, and a cast socket for it to sit in. I'll get some pics.

Edited by Speedwheel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re Opening the empty lock with the boat bow ... I think the time you think you save is a myth; and it's also not easy taking the boat so gently up to the bottom gates that you can guarantee not to give them a damaging shudder. It doesn't need to be much of a bump: the effect of the vibration is damage that slowly builds up over time.

 

I singlehanded a lot in a 70' boat with 2'6" draught (deep but not as as deep as a working boat). Yes, I occasionally take the boat up to the bottom gates from the outside but generally only if it's twinned locks and the empty one is away from the towpath on the opposite side. Taking care not to bump the gates ... and also not floating backwards out of reach of the steps ... then walking along the gunwhale without falling in ... then doing that walk in reverse when the lock is ready ... takes almost as long as tying up quickly at the bollards and walking up to the lock from there. So little time difference that it's not worth risking adding to the longterm depletion of the lockgates.

 

Besides, I cruise at all times of the year and see hardly anyone using this 'traditional' way of opening the bottom gates. And that includes plenty of experienced and liveaboard boaters. Probably much of the deterioration of the locks by the 20th Century was because the working boaters' priority was to get the goods through, regardless of any collateral damage. What's our excuse?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The method of working isn't opening the gate with the bow, it is touching the gate with the bow fender then operating the lock. I boat over 2000 miles a year mainly delivering on the Cheshire ring & connected waterways (and have passed your boat many times) , I always use this method, I regularly see BW staff & other experienced boaters using this method of operating, I've never had any complaints from BW staff. In my experience it is more timely & efficient. At Red Bull Locks going up hill snglehanded I can pass a boat with a crew of 3 or 4 who are tying the boat up at each lock landing. I'm not racing just working smartly. I don't have or need an excuse, there is no collateral damage, its simply a matter of choice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you mean single handedly operating the lock?

 

I struggle to keep some of them on the T&M shut and find often the only way to do it is to open a paddle at the other end, (the one at Alweras is a right barsteward for it) is there a better way if somebody is on the boat too?

 

Just curious.

 

 

..

No, but if they're on the bank they can hold the gate shut!

 

And look at it this way, if you're nosing up to the gate when waiting for a lock, you're saving wear and tear on the bank!

Edited by Chertsey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, but if they're on the bank they can hold the gate shut!

 

And look at it this way, if you're nosing up to the gate when waiting for a lock, you're saving wear and tear on the bank!

 

I realise that of course - but thinking about this - I'm now wondering how practical is it to hold the bottom gates shut with the boat, while the lock operator goes back to close the top gates and open the paddles, something we've never tried as we always try to keep the boat off the gates.

 

or is not worth the effort and is it best just flush some water through as we do currently to hold the bottom gates shut..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. I bow to your greater experience and , yes, I'm sure we've exchanged 'hello' on the Cheshire Ring and it's good to encounter familiar faces. Maybe it's a mixture of experience and preference. You're in business on the canal and need to operate in the way that's most efficient for you. On my own I do Rode Heath to Red Bull in about 2 + 1/2 hours, which is as quick as I need, tying up at locks. With my partner it takes just shie of 2 hours; she waits in the channel while I do the lock. You know what you're doing. But I've seen others try it and end up banging the gates. I'd suggest, for most, it would be better to tie up, or, with a crew, hover in the channel to wait for the lock. After all, why else are the bollards there?

The method of working isn't opening the gate with the bow, it is touching the gate with the bow fender then operating the lock. I boat over 2000 miles a year mainly delivering on the Cheshire ring & connected waterways (and have passed your boat many times) , I always use this method, I regularly see BW staff & other experienced boaters using this method of operating, I've never had any complaints from BW staff. In my experience it is more timely & efficient. At Red Bull Locks going up hill snglehanded I can pass a boat with a crew of 3 or 4 who are tying the boat up at each lock landing. I'm not racing just working smartly. I don't have or need an excuse, there is no collateral damage, its simply a matter of choice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. I bow to your greater experience and , yes, I'm sure we've exchanged 'hello' on the Cheshire Ring and it's good to encounter familiar faces. Maybe it's a mixture of experience and preference. You're in business on the canal and need to operate in the way that's most efficient for you. On my own I do Rode Heath to Red Bull in about 2 + 1/2 hours, which is as quick as I need, tying up at locks. With my partner it takes just shie of 2 hours; she waits in the channel while I do the lock. You know what you're doing. But I've seen others try it and end up banging the gates. I'd suggest, for most, it would be better to tie up, or, with a crew, hover in the channel to wait for the lock. After all, why else are the bollards there?

 

The bollards are there to facillitate waiting for the lock when someone else is using it.

Edited by blodger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. I bow to your greater experience and , yes, I'm sure we've exchanged 'hello' on the Cheshire Ring and it's good to encounter familiar faces. Maybe it's a mixture of experience and preference. You're in business on the canal and need to operate in the way that's most efficient for you. On my own I do Rode Heath to Red Bull in about 2 + 1/2 hours, which is as quick as I need, tying up at locks. With my partner it takes just shie of 2 hours; she waits in the channel while I do the lock. You know what you're doing. But I've seen others try it and end up banging the gates. I'd suggest, for most, it would be better to tie up, or, with a crew, hover in the channel to wait for the lock. After all, why else are the bollards there?

 

When I am on my own and somewhere like the Wolverhampton flight, for example, I like to keep the boat near me, and taking it up to the lock gates saves me having to shut the boat up whilst I'm preparing the lock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. I bow to your greater experience and , yes, I'm sure we've exchanged 'hello' on the Cheshire Ring and it's good to encounter familiar faces. Maybe it's a mixture of experience and preference. You're in business on the canal and need to operate in the way that's most efficient for you. On my own I do Rode Heath to Red Bull in about 2 + 1/2 hours, which is as quick as I need, tying up at locks. With my partner it takes just shie of 2 hours; she waits in the channel while I do the lock. You know what you're doing. But I've seen others try it and end up banging the gates. I'd suggest, for most, it would be better to tie up, or, with a crew, hover in the channel to wait for the lock. After all, why else are the bollards there?

 

They are there for the benefit of those who can't do it properly.

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Dave. Hey .. I've shot my mouth off and got things wrong on this forum but also learned things I didn't know. Trifick! Thank you all. Non je regrette rien.

 

You know, that's really the best way to approach the forum. Just plain joining in can lead you to all kinds of interesting places, and you are bound to learn something on the way.

 

Richard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I realise that of course - but thinking about this - I'm now wondering how practical is it to hold the bottom gates shut with the boat, while the lock operator goes back to close the top gates and open the paddles, something we've never tried as we always try to keep the boat off the gates.

 

or is not worth the effort and is it best just flush some water through as we do currently to hold the bottom gates shut..

If the bottom gates need holding shut while the top gates are open, you've got a BIG problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the bottom gates need holding shut while the top gates are open, you've got a BIG problem.

 

Ahh good point - I knew that of course I was just seeing if any body would spot it - :blush:

Edited by MJG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you mean single handedly operating the lock?

 

I struggle to keep some of them on the T&M shut and find often the only way to do it is to open a paddle at the other end, (the one at Alweras is a right barsteward for it) is there a better way if somebody is on the boat too?

 

Just curious.

 

 

..

 

I mean single handing both lock and boat, i.e. I have no crew.

 

If you have someone on the boat you can sometimes reverse back to the gates on hold them shut with your stern fender leaving the boat in reverse to hold it there. When the paddles are raised the boat will get pushed back but since it is already on the gates it doesn't matter. Once the water holds the gates shut you can move forwards if you want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean single handing both lock and boat, i.e. I have no crew.

 

If you have someone on the boat you can sometimes reverse back to the gates on hold them shut with your stern fender leaving the boat in reverse to hold it there. When the paddles are raised the boat will get pushed back but since it is already on the gates it doesn't matter. Once the water holds the gates shut you can move forwards if you want.

 

I use a boat hook to hold them shut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I singlehanded a lot in a 70' boat with 2'6" draught (deep but not as as deep as a working boat). Yes, I occasionally take the boat up to the bottom gates from the outside but generally only if it's twinned locks and the empty one is away from the towpath on the opposite side. Taking care not to bump the gates ... and also not floating backwards out of reach of the steps ... then walking along the gunwhale without falling in ... then doing that walk in reverse when the lock is ready ... takes almost as long as tying up quickly at the bollards and walking up to the lock from there. So little time difference that it's not worth risking adding to the longterm depletion of the lockgates.

 

You are making this much harder than it should be, and once you have nestled the bow onto the bottom gate, put the boat in gear. Once the lock is ready the boat will find it's own way into the lock - you can take a line to strap it before it reaches the cill if you want. Then shut gates and fill lock. Simples.

 

When I'm working up hill the only time the boat comes out of forward gear is when I'm stopping the boat to shut the top gate.

 

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are making this much harder than it should be, and once you have nestled the bow onto the bottom gate, put the boat in gear. Once the lock is ready the boat will find it's own way into the lock - you can take a line to strap it before it reaches the cill if you want. Then shut gates and fill lock. Simples.

 

When I'm working up hill the only time the boat comes out of forward gear is when I'm stopping the boat to shut the top gate.

 

Mike

 

Or if you are really confident, let the boat take itself in and lift the top paddle at the right time to bring the boat to a stop just as it reaches the cill. Boat in gear holds itself against the cill and you go and quickly shut the bottom gates.

 

(Not so) Simples

Edited by Speedwheel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or if you are really confident, let the boat take itself in and lift the top paddle at the right time to bring the boat to a stop just as it reaches the cill. Boat in gear holds itself against the cill and you go and quickly shut the bottom gates.

 

(Not so) Simples

That is what I do, but thought it might be a little too advanced for most.

 

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or if you are really confident, let the boat take itself in and lift the top paddle at the right time to bring the boat to a stop just as it reaches the cill. Boat in gear holds itself against the cill and you go and quickly shut the bottom gates.

 

(Not so) Simples

 

cover your ears as bottom gate slams shut, shurely?

 

This all depends on how fast your tickover speed is. In a 70' lock, mine will pick up quite head of steam and I doubt whether an open paddle would stop it. And you could certainly say goodbye to palm flesh if you tried to halt him under power with a rope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or if you are really confident, let the boat take itself in and lift the top paddle at the right time to bring the boat to a stop just as it reaches the cill. Boat in gear holds itself against the cill and you go and quickly shut the bottom gates.

 

(Not so) Simples

 

Although I often leave the boat in the mouth of the lock (having ensured no-one's coming down!) in gear, I've never quite had the confidence to open the paddle to stop the boat- I normally shut the bottom gate on my side behind the boat (with t'other half doing t'other side), hop onto the roof to take the boat out of gear before it hits the cill (there's normally time as it's 48'), and then put it back into gear when it's nearby to hold it on the gate and cill. Back to lockside, OH goes ahead to set next lock, whack up the paddles, boat comes up by itself, opens the top gate, paddles down as boat comes out, strap boat with a stern line or reverse to keep it in the lock throat, close gate, on to next lock.

 

Certainly more efficient than tying up all the time!

 

Once the lock is ready the boat will find it's own way into the lock - you can take a line to strap it before it reaches the cill if you want. Mike

 

Which line would you take? From the back-end rail? I suppose I'd take the centreline on my modern boat, or maybe use a long line from the stern dolly as the boat's only 48'.

Edited by FadeToScarlet
Link to comment
Share on other sites

cover your ears as bottom gate slams shut, shurely?

 

The trick here is to leave the bottom paddles up, so when closing it reduces the head of water and therefore the slamming. It can be done quite gently if you also add some back pressure on the balance beam.

 

This all depends on how fast your tickover speed is. In a 70' lock, mine will pick up quite head of steam and I doubt whether an open paddle would stop it. And you could certainly say goodbye to palm flesh if you tried to halt him under power with a rope.

 

The flush of water is strong enough to stop any boat, but timing is the key. When stopping with a rope you don't use your hands to stop it, but friction between rope and post!

 

This video at 8:45 shows my strapping 40 tonne of boat and cargo at quite a pace, but unfortunately doesn't show the post:

 

Useful working boat tip - keep the strapping rope wet so it doesn't melt during strapping operations.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

Edited by mykaskin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

cover your ears as bottom gate slams shut, shurely?

 

This all depends on how fast your tickover speed is. In a 70' lock, mine will pick up quite head of steam and I doubt whether an open paddle would stop it. And you could certainly say goodbye to palm flesh if you tried to halt him under power with a rope.

 

People only lose palm flesh if they actually imagine that they should be stopping the rope with their palm.

 

Once they realise that they should wrap the rope round something, and that the friction before it gets to the pald is what does it...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People only lose palm flesh if they actually imagine that they should be stopping the rope with their palm.

 

Once they realise that they should wrap the rope round something, and that the friction before it gets to the pald is what does it...

 

And what, pray, does one wrap the rope around? Ah! Those new square bollardy things! It all begins to make sense...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.