(Diesel) Engine Mechanics

[FORTUNATA]

I wondered how many folks on the forum are like me and lack any real knowledge of engine mechanics. This is tricky as in my present area, I found that the boatyards don't tend to offer any real mechanical service for canal cruisers (longboats maybe). It took me weeks to get my cambelt changed as no automotive mechanics seemed willing to leave the garage and travel out to where my boat is moored.

I've now reached the conclusion that it would be a good thing for me to learn some basic engine mechanics if I'm going to run a boat. I already have books on diesel engines but have a fair bit to learn.

I presently have a diesel Volkswagen Golf engine dated around 1985. It would be logical to start from simpler jobs such as changing oil-filters and then progressing to being able to wire up voltometers or even change cambelts e.t.c.

I'm assuming a fairly large percentage of boat-enthusiasts tend to be fairly practical but I'm curious as to how many of you did a course or maybe studied some mechanical books e.t.c.

As things stand, if my computer breaks down I can usually get it going without rushing to the shops but my boat is another kettle of fish.

[Bones]

I wondered how many folks on the forum are like me and lack any real knowledge of engine mechanics. This is tricky as in my present area, I found that the boatyards don't tend to offer any real mechanical service for canal cruisers (longboats maybe). It took me weeks to get my cambelt changed as no automotive mechanics seemed willing to leave the garage and travel out to where my boat is moored.

I've now reached the conclusion that it would be a good thing for me to learn some basic engine mechanics if I'm going to run a boat. I already have books on diesel engines but have a fair bit to learn.

I presently have a diesel Volkswagen Golf engine dated around 1985. It would be logical to start from simpler jobs such as changing oil-filters and then progressing to being able to wire up voltometers or even change cambelts e.t.c.

I'm assuming a fairly large percentage of boat-enthusiasts tend to be fairly practical but I'm curious as to how many of you did a course or maybe studied some mechanical books e.t.c.

As things stand, if my computer breaks down I can usually get it going without rushing to the shops but my boat is another kettle of fish.

 

get your cousin to show you when he does stuff on the boat. I learnt my mecanics on bikes - I find boats quite different, but usually someone is happy to point out which end is which. Personally the best way of learning is to try and work out how it works and where all the cooling goes etc. Ask questions about the system and gently you will become an expert....!

[DHutch]

I think quite a few people on the board are in a simular situaltion to yourself.

- Im supprised there are not boatyard willing to ofter help in the area.

- I would have thought it relativley profitable and in demand.

 

There are coarses in "narrowboat engine maintaince" etc

- Although ive never done one, i have heard there quite good.

 

 

Daniel

 

 

 

 

Also, to add to that, i agree very much with bones, watch people when you get them to do it for you!

[DaveR]

For a Volkswagon engine, what about a Haynes manual? About a tenner from Halfords.

[Supermalc]

The old adage 'there is no substitute for experience' still holds true.

 

One way to gain experience is to read your books, then buy an old engine, which you can run at home, take to pieces and put back together etc. In other words something to practise on. This is what you will do if you go to college on a course.

 

You will gain experience on undoing and redoing nuts and bolts, and trying to remember (or not) where everything goes etc. And you won't have your nerves putting you under pressure of having to get it right.

 

You can buy an old car diesel for only £40 or so, and you may even find one by the roadside in an abandoned car.

 

If you make a mistake that damages it beyond repair, you've lost little. If you try it on your car or boat engine, it will most likely cost £100s to replace.

 

If you did this, to learn how to change the cam belt for example, buy the relevant manual, read the instructions, remove the cam belt, then replace the same one. If you have done the job properly the engine will run as before.

 

And just as an example of how hazards can crop up, here's what happened to me.

 

I bought an old Renault Extra van in 1994. There were no 'cheap' diesels around so I paid £600 for this 50 quid van. I removed the engine to change the leaking rear oil seal and worn clutch. While out I decided to change the cam belt, the first (and only) one I have done. I asked friends of any snags, and was told it was relatively simple. Being extra careful, I marked the position of the pulleys with paint, as well as lining up the timing marks.

 

Well I removed everything ok only ...... disaster. The bottom crankshaft pulley was on a taper with no keyway. However I know that the marks were in the correct place with No1 piston at TDC (top dead centre), so found the mark on the flywheel, and fitted the new belt, taking care all the marks lined up.

 

But there was a SNAG. The engine would not turn over. Obviously I had got the belt on in the wrong place and the pistons were hitting the valves. I should have removed the rocker cover and checked the position of the valves, however I went to see my friend I know at the garage. He said there is a bolt in the front of the block that you take out, and a special rod lines up with a hole in the crankshaft to lock it in position.

 

When I did this my mistake was immediately apparent. I had mistaken the mark on the flywheel. There was a much larger one for TDC, which I had missed seeing. Because it was my first time I had changed a belt, and have not worked regularly on engines for some years, plus my situation had reduced my self confidence, I made this mistake.

[Tinally]

A Haynes manual is always a good idea. I got one for my Ford diesel on Ebay, where I seem to do most of my shopping these days !

 

When I bought my present boat I embarked on a steep learning curve as well. My previous ones had been outboard powered and it was simple enough to service one of those....you simply cart it off to a dealer and say "Can I have this serviced please?"

 

Luckily I have a friendly boatyard owner where I store "Tinally" in the winter and he is always ready with advice and willing to take on ( at a price ) those jobs that I don't feel capable of yet ! Mind you, when he's doing a job he wants me to get my hands on. "I won't be there when you break down on the river", he says!! He is, of course, right.

[DHutch]

The technique i was teached for changing a cam belt was to cut it in half along its lenght (yes, all the way round) then remove the outer half, exposing half the pulleys.

- Then slide the new belt half way on, before cutting the second half of the belt off, and sliding the new belt home.

 

But its not somthing you want to get wrong, becuase having seen an engine after the cambelt snaped, its not a pritty sight!!

 

[edit]

- Please note, ive only done this once, and it wasnt a Renault. And apprently i wont work for them (thanks malc)

 

 

Daniel

Edited January 24, 2006 by dhutch

[colinjw]

As Daniel says, there are maintenance courses available for diesel engines. I think they are run by the RYA and/or Reading College.

 

I am fortunate in that I have been in the Merchant Navy for 40 years as an engineer and as we all say...a diesel engine is a diesel engine. Apart from one particular ship I was on decades ago which had 3, yes THREE pistons for one unit and opposed piston 2-strokes, all diesels are basically the same.

 

Colin

 

p.s. Now waiting for the flak regarding various diesels being different.....lol

[Supermalc]

The technique i was teached for changing a cam belt was to cut it in half along its lenght (yes, all the way round) then remove the outer half, exposing half the pulleys.

- Then slide the new belt half way on, before cutting the second half of the belt off, and sliding the new belt home.

 

Daniel

 

On the Renault (Peugeot)you can't do that, as you have to take the bottom pulley off to get the cover off.

 

To change the belt on some cars now is almost a full days job, with many special tools.

[DHutch]

On the Renault (Peugeot)you can't do that, as you have to take the bottom pulley off to get the cover off.

- To change the belt on some cars now is almost a full days job, with many special tools.

Ah, well. Leave it to someone else then!

[Bones]

For a Volkswagon engine, what about a Haynes manual? About a tenner from Halfords.

 

Haynes manuals are a joke!!!!!

[DHutch]

Haynes manuals are a joke!!!!!

Have you written a better one?

 

I rebuilt a Honda C90 bike engine on my own with nothing but the haynes manual.

- And it ran find once i'd finished. I got the time 180deg out first time, but it didnt take long to notice, and correct that, Lol!!

- Very nice engines as well, pure delight to drive (we had them fitted into karts)

 

 

Daniel

[FORTUNATA]

I agree, such mistakes knock confidence quite a bit. My main experience to date is with roadbike (cycle) mechanics but engines are a big step up the ladder for me. It took me ages to get the hang of bike derailleurs so diesel engines aren't going to be easy.

The trouble is, I'm not kidding when I said I had these problems getting a boat mechanic (or any mechanic) to service my boat. Boat people would assure me they'd ask a friend of a friend who was a mechanic e.t.c. but nobody phoned.

At any rate, I figure on going into this hobby seriously and learning all I can about diesels. My cousin builds his own aeroplanes so I figure I ought to be able to get to grips with my boat in time and have it running as it should be. I did like the idea you mentioned of getting an old engine and messing about with it - the best way to learn.

Anyway, if it's any comfort to you, changing a cambelt can be a tough job for a trained mechanic. No kidding. I knew about marking and all that stuff but I noticed my boat had a guard over the belt that complicated matters. Had I tried it myself, I reckon I'd have made a cobble of the job so I persuaded my cousin to do it for me.

Experience in the past has shown me that knowledge in mechanics seems to come at the expense of a bit of stress, with failures, cock-ups and fresh attempts all playing a part. I suppose it all gets easier if you keep trying but, so far, count me as a novice at this.

 

The old adage 'there is no substitute for experience' still holds true.

 

One way to gain experience is to read your books, then buy an old engine, which you can run at home, take to pieces and put back together etc. In other words something to practise on. This is what you will do if you go to college on a course.

 

You will gain experience on undoing and redoing nuts and bolts, and trying to remember (or not) where everything goes etc. And you won't have your nerves putting you under pressure of having to get it right.

 

You can buy an old car diesel for only £40 or so, and you may even find one by the roadside in an abandoned car.

 

If you make a mistake that damages it beyond repair, you've lost little. If you try it on your car or boat engine, it will most likely cost £100s to replace.

 

If you did this, to learn how to change the cam belt for example, buy the relevant manual, read the instructions, remove the cam belt, then replace the same one. If you have done the job properly the engine will run as before.

 

And just as an example of how hazards can crop up, here's what happened to me.

 

I bought an old Renault Extra van in 1994. There were no 'cheap' diesels around so I paid £600 for this 50 quid van. I removed the engine to change the leaking rear oil seal and worn clutch. While out I decided to change the cam belt, the first (and only) one I have done. I asked friends of any snags, and was told it was relatively simple. Being extra careful, I marked the position of the pulleys with paint, as well as lining up the timing marks.

 

Well I removed everything ok only ...... disaster. The bottom crankshaft pulley was on a taper with no keyway. However I know that the marks were in the correct place with No1 piston at TDC (top dead centre), so found the mark on the flywheel, and fitted the new belt, taking care all the marks lined up.

 

But there was a SNAG. The engine would not turn over. Obviously I had got the belt on in the wrong place and the pistons were hitting the valves. I should have removed the rocker cover and checked the position of the valves, however I went to see my friend I know at the garage. He said there is a bolt in the front of the block that you take out, and a special rod lines up with a hole in the crankshaft to lock it in position.

 

When I did this my mistake was immediately apparent. I had mistaken the mark on the flywheel. There was a much larger one for TDC, which I had missed seeing. Because it was my first time I had changed a belt, and have not worked regularly on engines for some years, plus my situation had reduced my self confidence, I made this mistake.

[John Orentas]

I am one of those authorised RYA instructors and I have taken courses on board my boat which is particularly suitable with a very accessible engine. Valuable as those those courses can be it is only one day, you will learn all of the principles of diesel engines and many of the techniques of routine maintenance but there are obvious limitations. There are courses available all over the country, Reading College is only one of many, some are listed in Waterways World.

 

Belt driven camshafts are uncommon on boats engines but I must say I was impressed by Daniels idea of splitting and removing half of the original belt prior to fitting the new one.

[Alastair]

Haynes manuals are a joke!!!!!

 

Haines manuals used to be good, but judging by the last one I bought, they are defn a joke. I ordered it from amazon; if I'd seen it first I wouldn't have bought it.

This one was for a landrover 110, and 20 pages were taken up with descriptions of MOT testing. Including a section on how to test steering on front wheel drive cars.

 

Trouble is, the landy 110 is a permanent 4wd! Following the haines instructions would have resulted in damage to the differentials.

 

 

Absolutely appalling.

[FORTUNATA]

I already came across Daniel's idea before on the internet somewhere and I recall it being suggested you can dip your new belt in fairy liquid and water so it will slip on more easily while slipping the other off. What stumped me, however, was the fact I needed to change the tension cog as well and, to make matters worse, there was a guard on the engine.

The thing is, at the time this was a crisis for me. I simply couldn't get any mechanic to do the job so I was considering cutting the existing belt halfway down (although I had the guard as a bit of an obstacle).

At any rate, when my cousin finally agreed to do the job and he removed the old belt, there was quite a tear. So I'm glad I waited it out otherwise my old belt could have snapped and clapped out the engine altogether.

It only took my cousin about 13 minutes to do the job and he marked everything in red paint.

 

 

I am one of those authorised RYA instructors and I have taken courses on board my boat which is particularly suitable with a very accessible engine. Valuable as those those courses can be it is only one day, you will learn all of the principles of diesel engines and many of the techniques of routine maintenance but there are obvious limitations. There are courses available all over the country, Reading College is only one of many, some are listed in Waterways World.

 

Belt driven camshafts are uncommon on boats engines but I must say I was impressed by Daniels idea of splitting and removing half of the original belt prior to fitting the new one.

[rayman]

if you can change a belt without releasing and adjusting the tensioner, there is obviously to much slack, not saying it dos'nt work but get it sorted at the first oppotunity (sp)

[jerrytug]

The trouble with Haynes and other manuals: Haynes claim to strip down and reassemble a typically used and dirty example of the motor in question,and even find ways round using special tools if poss. They give a "spanners out of five" grade,eg four spanners=quite hard. So why the FECK can`t they be arsed to list all the tools they needed to do the job,at the beginning????? Then I would`t have to carry four boxes of metric imperial and odd sizes,all my extensions,scaff tubes etc etc etc to each and every job to find out by trial and error what is already known? And if they put the tool sizes in they would double sales overnight. Double mugs.

[John Orentas]

Haynes and other types of workshop manuals are useful for rebuilding and stripping engines down but for routine maintenance, trouble shooting and gaining a general understanding of your engine there are several good general diesel maintenance books and videos available. Try to take a look in advance of buying, some are very American biased with V8's and turbo-chargers.

Edited January 29, 2006 by John Orentas

[FORTUNATA]

I had a tough time finding the cambelt for my engine. Any number was totally faded from the belt itself and I couldn't find the engine number as such. Couldn't see it anywhere on the engine. Even so, I did find what was apparently a casting number and we discovered this number gave you an idea of the date. My engine was a Volkswagen Golf around the eighties period and there's virtually only one cambelt that was produced around that time. So, I bought a belt and it was fine.

I still haven't heard my engine fire up yet as I'm still wiring the ignition board.

 

 

The trouble with Haynes and other manuals: Haynes claim to strip down and reassemble a typically used and dirty example of the motor in question,and even find ways round using special tools if poss. They give a "spanners out of five" grade,eg four spanners=quite hard. So why the FECK can`t they be arsed to list all the tools they needed to do the job,at the beginning????? Then I would`t have to carry four boxes of metric imperial and odd sizes,all my extensions,scaff tubes etc etc etc to each and every job to find out by trial and error what is already known? And if they put the tool sizes in they would double sales overnight. Double mugs.

[FORTUNATA]

I have it here: The Haynes Manual On Diesel Engines. I'm also reading another book on diesels although that one is intended for cars. The idea is basically to swat up on the general workings of a diesel engine but the tasks I'm aiming to be able to carry out at this stage are basic ones. I figure I need to understand how to keep the fuel free of condensation, change oil and filters e.t.c. Plus, I need to be able to recognise the engine and identify where the injection pump is located, for example. So, nothing too technical.

I also have a good book on boat electrics that explains the use of a multimeter and how to check for short circuits and how the battery works. I've learned in the past that the more you can find out, the less you need to rely on mechanics and electricians who often don't want to be bothered to do call-outs to mooring sites.

Funny, though, my boat only has one battery for engine-start and appliances combined. The books criticize this system but then again my books have mainly been intended for yachts.

 

 

Haynes and other types of workshop manuals are useful for rebuilding and stripping engines down but for routine maintenance, trouble shooting and gaining a general understanding of your engine there are several good general diesel maintenance books and videos available. Try to take a look in advance of buying, some are very American biased with V8's and turbo-chargers.

[bottle]

Hi Fortunata

 

I think it would be wise to invest in a separate start and domestic system.

 

You only have to use a little too much domestic power, the engine will not start and it is difficult to push start a boat.

[Alastair]

. . . . .some are very American biased with V8's and turbo-chargers.

 

So what's wrong with turbo chargers then, we wouldn't get 120hp without one?

[FORTUNATA]

Yes, all the books back you up. Not only that, but some books criticize direct raw water cooling which is what I have on my boat.

The thing is, my boat is fairly small at about 24 feet and so not much detail has been given to technicalities. There was just the one battery. Larger boats usually always have 2 batteries and the best smaller boats have the system too.

At any rate, I found a multimeter for sale today for less than 10 pounds. I didn't buy it yet but didn't know they could be purchased so cheaply.

 

Hi Fortunata

 

I think it would be wise to invest in a separate start and domestic system.

 

You only have to use a little too much domestic power, the engine will not start and it is difficult to push start a boat.

[endeva]

As Daniel says, there are maintenance courses available for diesel engines. I think they are run by the RYA and/or Reading College.

 

I am fortunate in that I have been in the Merchant Navy for 40 years as an engineer and as we all say...a diesel engine is a diesel engine. Apart from one particular ship I was on decades ago which had 3, yes THREE pistons for one unit and opposed piston 2-strokes, all diesels are basically the same.

 

Colin

 

p.s. Now waiting for the flak regarding various diesels being different.....lol

 

 

would that have been the "Tilling Stevens" horizontally opposed three cylinder 2 stroke diesel per chance?