Urgent Help Needed Banbury Area

[cotswoldsman]

As some people might know I am a complete numpty when it comes to anything to do with engines and electrics.

Last night when I went to stop my engine after charging the batteries it would not switch off, this is done by pressing the stop button. The light was also on on the thingy that looks like a battery. Eventually I was able to stop the engine via the battery isolator. So now when I turn the ignition on nothing happens no electricity going to starter motor.

Does anyone know an engineer/electrician in the Banbury area who can come out and sort this proble!!!

[Sunset Rising]

You have Tooleys next to the castle keys lock and shopping centre. Dont know if they would be able to help

[DaveC]

John

 

Don't know if this will help or not but once I was unable to stop the engine using the key stop - it was due to a multiplug in the engine bay having had my size twelves on it and parting the contacts. In my case it was just a case of pushing the plug and socket together again.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[cotswoldsman]

You have Tooleys next to the castle keys lock and shopping centre. Dont know if they would be able to help

 

Thanks have left a message on there answer machine

 

John

 

Don't know if this will help or not but once I was unable to stop the engine using the key stop - it was due to a multiplug in the engine bay having had my size twelves on it and parting the contacts. In my case it was just a case of pushing the plug and socket together again.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

Thanks Dave would not be my size 12's as I have never been down there. Just spoke to an engineer who can't come but thinks it might be a burnt out wire but again it does not help me as i just don't know anything.

[ChrisPy]

... i just don't know anything.

no, I don't agree with that

 

good luck with you lektrics in this deep freeze

[cotswoldsman]

Thanks everyone Tooley's are sending down an engineer hopefully he will be able to sort the problem!!!!!!

[Guest]

Thanks everyone Tooley's are sending down an engineer hopefully he will be able to sort the problem!!!!!!

 

It would be interesting to hear what he finds - hope you get sorted soon.

[alan_fincher]

I'd be curious of the explanation, but don't have the knowledge to suggest one.

 

(Our boat has the simple cable "pull" for the engine stop - an arrangement it is very easy to fault find, if pulling the "tug" no longer stops the engine - some times "simple" is a;lso "good").

 

I don't have experience of ones where the cut off is "electric", but as you say turning off the isolators stops the engine, I can only assume you have an arrangement that means power needs to be present to keep the fuel flowing, (something I'm not keen on, as if you loose 12 volt power on a river, your engine might then stop at an "inopportune" moment).

 

If the above assumption is correct, it would appear that pressing the stop button must be something a bit more complex than just breaking the electrics to the bit that keeps the fuel flowing, (some kind of electrically actuated valve).

 

So, I for one, would be curious how such a set up works, (and what stops it doing so).

 

Good luck - hope Tooley's can sort it cheaply!

[Nightwatch]

Hi John.

 

I had a similar problem with my boat. Turned out it was a relay unit, like you find on a car on the headlight circuit. In Banbury near Tescos there is a smallish retail site where you will find the ever helpful Maplins. The little box thingy is a cube about an inch. You would need to get one with the same numbers on it. It is just a push fit.

 

All of the above depends if it is the same problem of course.

 

Anyway, just seen you have a chap on his way.

 

 

Best of luck

 

Martyn

 

edit....to use past tense.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Nightwatch1

[jelunga]

IIRC there as two ways of electrically operating stop solenoids. One where you apply power to it to pull a lever to shut off the fuel to stop the engine. If the power fails the engine will keep running. To stop it you manually move and hold the lever in the stop position til the engine stops.

 

The other method is where power is applied all the time the engine is running. To stop the engine, you remove the power, and the fuel shut off lever being spring loaded, moves to the stop position. If you loose power, the engine stops and will not start agsain until power is restored to the solenoid.

 

It is very damaging to run an engine with the ignition turned off. By engine I mean the alternators, and by ignition, I mean the load and excitation circuits.

 

Your problem seems to indicate a "power to run" system. But by turning off the master isolator other damage may have been caused that now prevents power getting to the engine start citcuits.

 

Good luck and let us all know what the problem was so we can all learn from your sad misfortune.

 

PS. Here in East Sussex, it rained last night and most of the snow has melted. It will mean an ice rink though if the temperature falls again.

 

And, just for the record, a heating control valve has failed on my car, so it looses coolant almost as fast as I can pour it into the header tank.

 

Keith

[Albion]

As some people might know I am a complete numpty when it comes to anything to do with engines and electrics.

Last night when I went to stop my engine after charging the batteries it would not switch off, this is done by pressing the stop button. The light was also on on the thingy that looks like a battery. Eventually I was able to stop the engine via the battery isolator. So now when I turn the ignition on nothing happens no electricity going to starter motor.

Does anyone know an engineer/electrician in the Banbury area who can come out and sort this proble!!!

 

This sounds slightly similar to what a mate of mine had on his wide beam powered by a 75hp Beta marinisation of a Kubota. He had a belt driving the engine start alternator and water pump break. He then found he couldn't operate the stop button, with the engine idling and getting hotter and hotter (no water pump remember). I got down into the engine bay and manually operated the stop solenoid, replaced the alternator belt, and everything was back to normal. It seems, therefore, that the engine start alternator supplies the power to operate the stop solenoid. Quite why, I don't know, but it can be the only explanation.

Roger

[Keeping Up]

IIRC there as two ways of electrically operating stop solenoids. One where you apply power to it to pull a lever to shut off the fuel to stop the engine. If the power fails the engine will keep running. To stop it you manually move and hold the lever in the stop position til the engine stops.

 

The other method is where power is applied all the time the engine is running. To stop the engine, you remove the power, and the fuel shut off lever being spring loaded, moves to the stop position. If you loose power, the engine stops and will not start agsain until power is restored to the solenoid.

 

It is very damaging to run an engine with the ignition turned off. Actually no it isn't. Turning off the ignition switch will do no harm at all. It will cause the "ignition" light to glow, and if the stop solenoid runs from the ignition circuit (as it does on your engine and mine, the MC42) then it will mean that the stop solenoid will not work so it will not stop the engine. By engine I mean the alternators, and by ignition, I mean the load and excitation circuits.

 

Your problem seems to indicate a "power to run" system. The symptoms do seem to match the OP's problem precisely, although I cannot see how the engine could be stopped by using the isolator. But by turning off the master isolator other damage may have been caused that now prevents power getting to the engine start citcuits. Absolutely.

 

Good luck and let us all know what the problem was so we can all learn from your sad misfortune. Seconded

 

PS. Here in East Sussex, it rained last night and most of the snow has melted. It will mean an ice rink though if the temperature falls again.

 

And, just for the record, a heating control valve has failed on my car, so it looses coolant almost as fast as I can pour it into the header tank.

 

Keith

[nb Innisfree]

When I fitted our engine I replaced stop solenoid with a manual cable, much simpler and reliable and more suitable for a canal boat.

[Smelly]

John, if it's an Isuzu as I suspect you have, the engine stop solenoid should fail open; you press the button and that closes it, but it's not closing...

 

If you look to the starboard side of the engine, close to the bulkhead there should be a lever protruding from a boxy arrangement near the throttle linkage; there's nothing attached to the lever. That's the manual engine stop. You can use that temporarily until you get the solenoid sorted. It's probably a fuse.

 

Did the engine stop eventually after you pulled the power? Chances are you stopped the fuel pump so if you need to start you'll need to turn the key to position one to bleed the injection pump for a couple of minutes before preheat.

 

edit... its a power to stop setup.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Smelly

[Heffalump]

Sorry I missed this or me and Emma would have popped over, we both have qualified in motorsport engineering, so not a million miles away.

[Water Rat.]

As some people might know I am a complete numpty when it comes to anything to do with engines and electrics.

Last night when I went to stop my engine after charging the batteries it would not switch off, this is done by pressing the stop button. The light was also on on the thingy that looks like a battery. Eventually I was able to stop the engine via the battery isolator. So now when I turn the ignition on nothing happens no electricity going to starter motor.

Does anyone know an engineer/electrician in the Banbury area who can come out and sort this proble!!!

 

I had this exact same problem in the summer and it was the altonator. RCR fitted a new one and bingo all is wonderful now. I was told that as the batteries had no charge at all there was not even the power to stop the engin, I now know where the manual cut off button is on the engin.

 

Miserable time for this to happen - good luck.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Water Rat.

[Semitrad]

John, if it's an Isuzu as I suspect you have, the engine stop solenoid should fail open; you press the button and that closes it, but it's not closing...

 

If you look to the starboard side of the engine, close to the bulkhead there should be a lever protruding from a boxy arrangement near the throttle linkage; there's nothing attached to the lever. That's the manual engine stop. You can use that temporarily until you get the solenoid sorted. It's probably a fuse.

 

Did the engine stop eventually after you pulled the power? Chances are you stopped the fuel pump so if you need to start you'll need to turn the key to position one to bleed the injection pump for a couple of minutes before preheat.

 

edit... its a power to stop setup.

 

Agree with this, if it's a Nanni then switching the key to off operates the fuel solenoid, it is held "off" by a relay and timer unit, after several seconds it is switched back to "ready" for the next run. Otherwise the solenoid would have to be permanently energised to "off" when the key was removed. It is easy to operate the solenoid lever manually, even easier to tie a piece of string and operate from the deck. You were in the boy scouts were you not?

[JGMarine]

What engine is it. This may give a clue.

 

This situation is normally caused by an interuption in the electrical supply.

[cotswoldsman]

Hi John.

 

I had a similar problem with my boat. Turned out it was a relay unit, like you find on a car on the headlight circuit. In Banbury near Tescos there is a smallish retail site where you will find the ever helpful Maplins. The little box thingy is a cube about an inch. You would need to get one with the same numbers on it. It is just a push fit.

 

All of the above depends if it is the same problem of course.

 

Anyway, just seen you have a chap on his way.

 

 

Best of luck

 

Martyn

 

edit....to use past tense.

 

Thanks everyone. have not been on line as I wanted to save my power. Firstly I would like to say what a great service I got from Tooley's in Banbury, even though there engineer was not supposed to work today Mat was happy to come down and help me with quite a walk down the towpath in not very pleasant weather.

Now as I have said I am no mechanic, though I did take the cover off this morning and look at the engine for about 30 mins but that did not seem to repair it.

Now as I understand it and those with better knowledge will correct me but battery acid had run down some wires and into the junction box causing it to mall function!!!

I turned the engine off last night by isolating the engine and that stopped the fuel I think.

Once again thanks everyone for your messages. Always said this was a good forum!!!!

[jelunga]

Allan,

 

your comment re ok to run alternator with ignition turned off. I think I meant the main isolator turned off. On our buses, if drivers run the engines with the master switch turned off (equivalent to a boat isolator switch) we normally have buggered alternators to fix. I wonder what the difference is?

 

And I have had problems with the stop solenoid on the MC42. The case was not earthing correctly due to corrosion. Cleaned up the area, wrapped some aluminium foli around the solenoid and clamped down. Works fine now.

 

K

[Barry]

Thanks everyone. have not been on line as I wanted to save my power. Firstly I would like to say what a great service I got from Tooley's in Banbury, even though there engineer was not supposed to work today Mat was happy to come down and help me with quite a walk down the towpath in not very pleasant weather.

Now as I have said I am no mechanic, though I did take the cover off this morning and look at the engine for about 30 mins but that did not seem to repair it.

Now as I understand it and those with better knowledge will correct me but battery acid had run down some wires and into the junction box causing it to mall function!!!

I turned the engine off last night by isolating the engine and that stopped the fuel I think.

Once again thanks everyone for your messages. Always said this was a good forum!!!!

 

So is it fixed now? Or are you at the stage where the problem is identified and it will get fixed on Monday?

 

 

 

 

Edited for staging

Edited December 4, 2010 by Bazza2

[cotswoldsman]

So is it fixed now? Or are you at the stage where the problem is identified and it will get fixed on Monday?

 

 

 

 

Edited for staging

 

Thanks to Tooley's all fixed but once I get free of the ice they will put a new junction box in and change the location so it does not happen again. So I guess you could say it has a temporary fix. Engine now running never heard such a great sound, I did not sleep easy last night thinking it was a major disaster and would take at least until Monday to get repaired and I would have to move into a hotel locally until repaired, still at least I was able to listen to the Ashes.......

[NB Lola]

Thanks to Tooley's all fixed but once I get free of the ice they will put a new junction box in and change the location so it does not happen again. So I guess you could say it has a temporary fix. Engine now running never heard such a great sound, I did not sleep easy last night thinking it was a major disaster and would take at least until Monday to get repaired and I would have to move into a hotel locally until repaired, still at least I was able to listen to the Ashes.......

 

 

win win then!

[cotswoldsman]

win win then!

 

Certainly for me as i just do not understand engines and electrics, just hope it won't be to long before I can move to Banbury I will also have them do a service as it is nearly 250 hours since the last one.

[Keeping Up]

Allan,

 

your comment re ok to run alternator with ignition turned off. I think I meant the main isolator turned off. On our buses, if drivers run the engines with the master switch turned off (equivalent to a boat isolator switch) we normally have buggered alternators to fix. I wonder what the difference is?

 

And I have had problems with the stop solenoid on the MC42. The case was not earthing correctly due to corrosion. Cleaned up the area, wrapped some aluminium foli around the solenoid and clamped down. Works fine now.

 

K

 

Turning off the ignition is not a problem, the alternator still has a load but has little or no excitation. Turning off the isolator is a different thing altogether, the alternator has no load so it can do itself some serious damage.

 

The stop solenoid arrangement on the MC42 was not one of Duffields most spectacular successes.