Boat winterization

[boatyboy]

Good evening all.last years we left our NB at Norbury wharf whilst we went home for the Christmas break.We were due to only be home for a week max,but ended up being home for a month.(Big mistake!!)The weather was mild for the time of year when we headed home,and as most of you will remember it got rapidly colder over the following weeks.

I never thought i would need to winterise the boat (another big mistake):blush:After our extened break we returned to the boat sitting in nearly 8" of ice.We had an idea what we would find.Sure enough the first thing we saw just inside the cabin was a pyamid of ice stemming from a split central heating radiator,and ice all along the cabin carpet.We both nearly cried and went back home to Chelmsford. But we set to to try and get some heat in the boat.Norbury wharf gave us free electric and we plugged in our fan heater.The boat inside was as cold as it is outside right now.

We had no idea of other damage,as the domestic pump and central heating pump were frozen solid.We were now getting some heat into the boat,and turned on the water pump again,and it worked,albiet rather slow at first.So far no leaks.We held our breath.The pump got up to presurising the acumulator and stopped.We waited for half an hour,and the pump kicked in again and kept on going.We could hear the sound of gushing water everywhere in the boat(i had already isolated the heating rads).

To cut an even longer story short i had 3 burst pipes behing the galley.2 more under the sink unit in the bath room.one more at the back of the thetford loo.The worst by far was the shower fitting which was fitted in between two 18mm bulkheads and stuck in.This turned out to be the biggest job,as i had to virtually dismantle the toilt compartment to get at the pipes.Once a bulkhead was removed i found the leaking joint,it was a copper capilory joint completly blown apart.

It took us a couple of days to fix every thing.New rads fitted,pipes lages,Antifreeze and furnox in the rads.now the long drying out period began.I think it took a month at least.

For those of you slating me for this, yes i agree with you all.And i am really emmbarresed to tell my story. but i felt i should share my woes with those of you leaving their boat to go home for Christmas.Remember to drain down your pipes.

Happy Chrismas.....Dave

[NB Lola]

Thats a real bugger. I have a similar problem now with the engine being replaced, not much chance to get any heating in, cannot even get to the marina cos of the snow.

 

I only hope that the part winterising I managed was enough, thankfully I have limited risk to just feed from calorifier and cold water tank. I pray its gonna be ok and promise never to leave it like this again. One engine change is more than enough!

 

Thanks for sharing, it helps us all to think more carfully.

[real_vibes]

Yes indeed, thank you for sharing. This is my first wi ter afloat. I have invested everything i have in the world in this 13 year old tub and to read that reminds me to take precautions when i leave for the Christmas period.

 

Hope your story finishes there!

[MtB]

<snip>

It took us a couple of days to fix every thing.New rads fitted,pipes lages,Antifreeze and furnox in the rads.now the long drying out period began.I think it took a month at least.

For those of you slating me for this, yes i agree with you all.And i am really emmbarresed to tell my story. but i felt i should share my woes with those of you leaving their boat to go home for Christmas.Remember to drain down your pipes.

Happy Chrismas.....Dave

 

Sorry to hear this tale. I think you were exceptionally unlucky to get so much damage, and nobody's slating you as far as I can see! We should be thanking you for highlighting how much damage can be done by freezing weather.

 

My boat is plumbed using plastic HEP20 tubing. I've suffered frozen HEP20 pipes in years gone by but never a burst. Have I just been lucky or does plastic pipe tend not to bust due to its elasticity?

 

I'd be interested to find out, has anyone on here ever had (or seen) a HEP20 pipe burst from freezing? HEP20 is rumoured to be 'frost proof' in the plumbing trade but I'm not convinced...

 

Mike

[alan_fincher]

I'd be interested to find out, has anyone on here ever had (or seen) a HEP20 pipe burst from freezing? HEP20 is rumoured to be 'frost proof' in the plumbing trade but I'm not convinced...

See old thread by RLWP

 

Whilst the Hep2O pipe itself didn't split in a freeze up, some of his fittings did.

 

Unfortunately I'm currently performing (involuntarily) a test on leaving the water system full in an unheated boat with Hep2O.

 

As and when I finally get there, I'll report on what, (if anything) has failed in this cold spell.

 

EDITED TO ACKNOWLEDGE....

 

RLWP's failures seem to have been Hep2O fittings, but on copper pipe. Not sure if the copper was contributory, in some way ?

Edited December 1, 2010 by alan_fincher

[J R]

Good evening all.last years we left our NB at Norbury wharf whilst we went home for the Christmas break.We were due to only be home for a week max,but ended up being home for a month.(Big mistake!!)The weather was mild for the time of year when we headed home,and as most of you will remember it got rapidly colder over the following weeks.

I never thought i would need to winterise the boat (another big mistake):blush:After our extened break we returned to the boat sitting in nearly 8" of ice.We had an idea what we would find.Sure enough the first thing we saw just inside the cabin was a pyamid of ice stemming from a split central heating radiator,and ice all along the cabin carpet.We both nearly cried and went back home to Chelmsford. But we set to to try and get some heat in the boat.Norbury wharf gave us free electric and we plugged in our fan heater.The boat inside was as cold as it is outside right now.

We had no idea of other damage,as the domestic pump and central heating pump were frozen solid.We were now getting some heat into the boat,and turned on the water pump again,and it worked,albiet rather slow at first.So far no leaks.We held our breath.The pump got up to presurising the acumulator and stopped.We waited for half an hour,and the pump kicked in again and kept on going.We could hear the sound of gushing water everywhere in the boat(i had already isolated the heating rads).

To cut an even longer story short i had 3 burst pipes behing the galley.2 more under the sink unit in the bath room.one more at the back of the thetford loo.The worst by far was the shower fitting which was fitted in between two 18mm bulkheads and stuck in.This turned out to be the biggest job,as i had to virtually dismantle the toilt compartment to get at the pipes.Once a bulkhead was removed i found the leaking joint,it was a copper capilory joint completly blown apart.

It took us a couple of days to fix every thing.New rads fitted,pipes lages,Antifreeze and furnox in the rads.now the long drying out period began.I think it took a month at least.

For those of you slating me for this, yes i agree with you all.And i am really emmbarresed to tell my story. but i felt i should share my woes with those of you leaving their boat to go home for Christmas.Remember to drain down your pipes.

Happy Chrismas.....Dave

 

Ouch. Well done for sharing your sorry tale with us all with alot of lessons that we can all learn. Currently -3 down here, -7 a few days ago.

 

50/50 anti freeze and water for the ch/hot water system works. No one on the boat a few days a week so we turn off the water pump and open all the taps to get as much water out and reduce the presssure thus reducing the risk of burst pipes. Prevention is better than cure.

[ditchcrawler]

Sorry to hear this tale. I think you were exceptionally unlucky to get so much damage, and nobody's slating you as far as I can see! We should be thanking you for highlighting how much damage can be done by freezing weather.

 

My boat is plumbed using plastic HEP20 tubing. I've suffered frozen HEP20 pipes in years gone by but never a burst. Have I just been lucky or does plastic pipe tend not to bust due to its elasticity?

 

I'd be interested to find out, has anyone on here ever had (or seen) a HEP20 pipe burst from freezing? HEP20 is rumoured to be 'frost proof' in the plumbing trade but I'm not convinced...

 

Mike

I had a HEP2O elbow split last year on the end of a 4 foot length of copper to HEP2O pipe.

[Dominic M]

Given the extreme temperatures we have suffered/are suffering if your boat has no warmth in it I would turn off the stopcock from the tank to the pump. Drain the calorifier if you can and then physically remove the intake pipe from the tank to the pump. Use a thick towel or Tesco's finest disposable nappies to soak up any residue. Both pump and internal plumbing are then dry and safe. If you have a gas water heater, such as a Morco or a Paloma, there is a drain plug on those so use it. They blow apart in cold weather.

[tosher]

Good evening all.last years we left our NB at Norbury wharf whilst we went home for the Christmas break.We were due to only be home for a week max,but ended up being home for a month.(Big mistake!!)The weather was mild for the time of year when we headed home,and as most of you will remember it got rapidly colder over the following weeks.

I never thought i would need to winterise the boat (another big mistake):blush:After our extened break we returned to the boat sitting in nearly 8" of ice.We had an idea what we would find.Sure enough the first thing we saw just inside the cabin was a pyamid of ice stemming from a split central heating radiator,and ice all along the cabin carpet.We both nearly cried and went back home to Chelmsford. But we set to to try and get some heat in the boat.Norbury wharf gave us free electric and we plugged in our fan heater.The boat inside was as cold as it is outside right now.

We had no idea of other damage,as the domestic pump and central heating pump were frozen solid.We were now getting some heat into the boat,and turned on the water pump again,and it worked,albiet rather slow at first.So far no leaks.We held our breath.The pump got up to presurising the acumulator and stopped.We waited for half an hour,and the pump kicked in again and kept on going.We could hear the sound of gushing water everywhere in the boat(i had already isolated the heating rads).

To cut an even longer story short i had 3 burst pipes behing the galley.2 more under the sink unit in the bath room.one more at the back of the thetford loo.The worst by far was the shower fitting which was fitted in between two 18mm bulkheads and stuck in.This turned out to be the biggest job,as i had to virtually dismantle the toilt compartment to get at the pipes.Once a bulkhead was removed i found the leaking joint,it was a copper capilory joint completly blown apart.

It took us a couple of days to fix every thing.New rads fitted,pipes lages,Antifreeze and furnox in the rads.now the long drying out period began.I think it took a month at least.

For those of you slating me for this, yes i agree with you all.And i am really emmbarresed to tell my story. but i felt i should share my woes with those of you leaving their boat to go home for Christmas.Remember to drain down your pipes.

Happy Chrismas.....Dave

 

 

 

I suffered very similar frost damage last winter as well, three pipe failures all on 90deg HEP20 bends onto copper pipe. Also blew the bottoms out of the domestic water filter bowls and split the bath tap wide open. I have now lagged all the pipework but still drain all the domestic water system and leave taps open just to be sure.

[Dominic M]

I suffered very similar frost damage last winter as well, three pipe failures all on 90deg HEP20 bends onto copper pipe. Also blew the bottoms out of the domestic water filter bowls and split the bath tap wide open. I have now lagged all the pipework but still drain all the domestic water system and leave taps open just to be sure.

Hi Tosher. Do what I recommend above and you won't need to lag anything. Disconnecting the tank supply from the pump is simple.

[tosher]

Hi Tosher. Do what I recommend above and you won't need to lag anything. Disconnecting the tank supply from the pump is simple.

 

 

Thanks Dominic M, I do everything you suggest except disconnecting the pump supply pipe. Will do that in future. The 15mm pipe lagging was only £1.99 for 5 x 1 metre lenghts from Focus so cheap enough.

[mikevye]

The probable cause for the failure of the 90 degree bends is the copper pipe expanding in the elbow and splitting the plastic. All my bends are onto hep2o pipe and touch wood I haven't had a problem.

[boatyboy]

Sorry to hear this tale. I think you were exceptionally unlucky to get so much damage, and nobody's slating you as far as I can see! We should be thanking you for highlighting how much damage can be done by freezing weather.

 

My boat is plumbed using plastic HEP20 tubing. I've suffered frozen HEP20 pipes in years gone by but never a burst. Have I just been lucky or does plastic pipe tend not to bust due to its elasticity?

 

I'd be interested to find out, has anyone on here ever had (or seen) a HEP20 pipe burst from freezing? HEP20 is rumoured to be 'frost proof' in the plumbing trade but I'm not convinced...

 

Mike

Hi Mike.Sad to say a couple of mine that had burst were the plastic pipe.They did not actually split the pipe,but came apart at the joint.I just replaced them with the same.Fingers crossed they don't leak (yet).

Dave

 

See old thread by RLWP

 

Whilst the Hep2O pipe itself didn't split in a freeze up, some of his fittings did.

 

Unfortunately I'm currently performing (involuntarily) a test on leaving the water system full in an unheated boat with Hep2O.

 

As and when I finally get there, I'll report on what, (if anything) has failed in this cold spell.

 

EDITED TO ACKNOWLEDGE....

 

RLWP's failures seem to have been Hep2O fittings, but on copper pipe. Not sure if the copper was contributory, in some way ?

Well you could well get it tested tonight.We are moored on the towpath opposite Welton Marina on the GU.And local weather at Braunston is supposed to drop to -16 c

You can check temperature in your area by going onto google and typing 'Weather in............' Just look at Braunston.We are brasing ourselves,as yesterday we had to let our oil fired Bubble stove out due to the gusty wind keep on blowing it out.It was efin freezing in here this morning lighting it at 6.30am.

Anyone else getting this problem with an oil Bubble.When its running the flame is perfect.I was told by Harworth heating (bubble stoves) to get a rotating cowl.We did this,and we thought had cured the problem,until yesterday

Dave

Edited December 2, 2010 by boatyboy

[RichardH]

Given the extreme temperatures we have suffered/are suffering if your boat has no warmth in it I would turn off the stopcock from the tank to the pump. Drain the calorifier if you can and then physically remove the intake pipe from the tank to the pump. Use a thick towel or Tesco's finest disposable nappies to soak up any residue. Both pump and internal plumbing are then dry and safe. If you have a gas water heater, such as a Morco or a Paloma, there is a drain plug on those so use it. They blow apart in cold weather.

 

Also, anyone with a Mansfield travellor, open the valve, stick a toilet brush in and ensure the tap is off to stop it freezing and cracking.

 

As for macerators - not quite as easy as always some residue in the pipe so put some antifreeze in.

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

Well you could well get it tested tonight.We are moored on the towpath opposite Welton Marina on the GU.And local weather at Braunston is supposed to drop to -16 c

Dave

I clocked -11 at Napton last Sunday

 

Hi Mike.Sad to say a couple of mine that had burst were the plastic pipe.They did not actually split the pipe,but came apart at the joint.I just replaced them with the same.Fingers crossed they don't leak (yet).

Dave

 

 

Mine split round the fitting, the ice must have expanded lengthways and pushed the bend off.

[Evo]

Freezing water pipes is another thing I'm anal about. Theres a reason for this, in the late eighties a friend of ours had a 70ft ex hireboat called NOTONECTAR (colecraft). He never winterised the dammed thing and every spring the bilge would be full of water. It would be the end of the summer before it all dried out and consequently all of his boating was done in a damp rotting heap. It was horible, he had mould on the walls, the bog floor had rotted through, windows were constantly steamed up or dripping water everywhere, it smelled, it was cold, so bad in fact that my missus refused to go on it anymore and was horified when she heard her dad had bought a burnt out boat and we were going to be rebuilding it.

 

When I worked out the plumbing I wanted a quick way of getting the water out for winter..!!!

 

The front tank supplies the centre tank. All water is drawn from the centre tank. The front tank can be isolated. It fills the centre tank with 2 pipes one each side of the boat. The basics of the system are here.

 

To winterise I turn off the front tank stopcocks, open the calorifier drain tap and then turn all the taps on on the boat. I also turn on the main evacuation pump on the right side if I want to do it quickly or perform a total drain down.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2010 by Evo

[Water Rat.]

Oh my goodness, what a tale. Folks who know where I am know I have what one would call a very snug mooring, I think my new neighbours are live aboards and their stove is on my bathroom and galley side where all the plumbing is. I have done all the draining down that I should and am hoping their warm boat will keep jade a bit warmer as well. Fingers crossed.

 

Also made me think would breasting up where possible help keep boats warmer out on the cut at this time of year?

Edited December 3, 2010 by Water Rat.

[mykaskin]

Anyone else getting this problem with an oil Bubble.When its running the flame is perfect.I was told by Harworth heating (bubble stoves) to get a rotating cowl.We did this,and we thought had cured the problem,until yesterday

Dave

 

Ensure all the air holes into the pot are clear, this causes a reduction in flow which can produce similar effects. Also check your chimney and all other bits are clean.

 

Mike

[boatyboy]

Ensure all the air holes into the pot are clear, this causes a reduction in flow which can produce similar effects. Also check your chimney and all other bits are clean.

 

Mike

 

Hi Mike.Ta for answering.Can i pick your brains a bit more? How does one go about totally cleaning inside the fire.Is the flat plate half way up with the large round hole in it which has the round grills in it easy to remove and clean under it.(i'd love to post a pic but i don't know to).Do you know the plate i mean? It appears to be held in with a few Allen headed screws.If you need further discription,let me know.

Dave

[curzons246]

We are brasing ourselves,as yesterday we had to let our oil fired Bubble stove out due to the gusty wind keep on blowing it out.It was efin freezing in here this morning lighting it at 6.30am.

Anyone else getting this problem with an oil Bubble.When its running the flame is perfect.I was told by Harworth heating (bubble stoves) to get a rotating cowl.We did this,and we thought had cured the problem,until yesterday

Dave

We used to have the same problem with our bubble until we got a rotor vent like this item on ebay Item number: 130335832175. the flame will drop but never goes out and no more cabin full of fumes. Last winter it ran for three months non stop and has been on full stop for this cold snap - wouldnt be without it - cheers Bill and Denise NB Indulgence

[alan_fincher]

Oh my goodness, what a tale. Folks who know where I am know I have what one would call a very snug mooring, I think my new neighbours are live aboards and their stove is on my bathroom and galley side where all the plumbing is. I have done all the draining down that I should and am hoping their warm boat will keep jade a bit warmer as well. Fingers crossed.

 

Also made me think would breasting up where possible help keep boats warmer out on the cut at this time of year?

Ho hum,

 

David and I finally made it up this afternoon.

 

We couldn't easily drain the calorifier - the reason seemed to be that frozen plumbing was preventing any air being able to get into it, to replace water we were trying to pump out.

 

This is the furthest I have ever pushed things, but I think we have pushed it one step too far, and I'd not be surprised to find some splits or other failures once everything thaws out.

 

I didn't bargain with quite how cold last night was going to be, to pile on the misery.

 

People have stopped trying to move where we are now - up to a few days ago, boats were still moving.

[floatingphil]

We couldn't easily drain the calorifier - the reason seemed to be that frozen plumbing was preventing any air being able to get into it, to replace water we were trying to pump out.

 

This is the furthest I have ever pushed things, but I think we have pushed it one step too far, and I'd not be surprised to find some splits or other failures once everything thaws out.

 

 

 

Same problem here, managed to drain a bit out the calorfier before it got too bad and taps were all open. I have hep pipe and fittings throughout so fingers crossed it will be ok. Pump still connected though so bit worried about that.

 

Phil

[DHutch]

My boat is plumbed using plastic HEP20 tubing. I've suffered frozen HEP20 pipes in years gone by but never a burst. Have I just been lucky or does plastic pipe tend not to bust due to its elasticity?

 

I'd be interested to find out, has anyone on here ever had (or seen) a HEP20 pipe burst from freezing? HEP20 is rumoured to be 'frost proof' in the plumbing trade but I'm not convinced...

We froze a hep20 last year, behind the kitchen unit, in the riser from the main plumbing under the floor upto the sink which has a T' for the planned drinking water filter which never materialised. So i can be done.

 

We also split a copper pipe the was running along the base plate in the engine room partially submerged in bilge water!

 

And the waterpump took on a leak, and the inlet strainer froze. Although the shower and water heater where ok.

 

 

Daniel

[boatyboy]

We are brasing ourselves,as yesterday we had to let our oil fired Bubble stove out due to the gusty wind keep on blowing it out.It was efin freezing in here this morning lighting it at 6.30am.

Anyone else getting this problem with an oil Bubble.When its running the flame is perfect.I was told by Harworth heating (bubble stoves) to get a rotating cowl.We did this,and we thought had cured the problem,until yesterday

Dave

 

Sounds intersting,i'll check it out.We do have a rotaing cowl from Bubble stoves.it works ok most of the time.Can you let me know how tall your chimney is please.Mine is only 18" and single skinned.

Dave

[Sven...]

I would like to share an idea for those who plan to go away for one to two weeks over Christmas and would rather not have the boat freeze, with all the potentially devastating consequences.

 

If you have an electric hookup you are all set of course... Just stick a low power electric heater in the boat. But for us CC'ers, or if your electric supply is unreliable, how about this:

 

In addition to other winterization measures, and especially if you are unable to take all the recommended steps, I suggest using gas to heat the boat while away. This could be done in several ways, but if you have a gas hob: You could just ignite one of the burners on the hob, turn it to the lowest setting, and leave it.

 

The flame will be going for a long time and should raise the temperature in the boat by a few degrees. Since the inside temperature is not likely to fall much below zero anyway (due to boat floating in mostly liquid water), hopefully this measure will keep the air temperature inside the boat above zero at all times.

 

I am doing an experiment right now to find out just how long the flame will burn. Based on previous experience, I think it will last for around 14 days on a full standard bottle. A bottle of gas is 24 pounds where I am... That is worth the peace of mind for me. Since I live in the boat, I would hate nothing more than plumbing problems in the middle of Winter.

 

Obviously there are some safety issues, but they can all be dealt with as far as I can see... Make sure there is nothing flammable near the hob. Check that the hob has a working auto-shut-off in case the flame goes out. If testing this while also living in the boat, this is the time to get that CO alarm as well as a gas alarm fitted.

 

When used together with other appropriate measures, the above could be a simple and fairly cheap way of insuring against freezing problems.

 

Sven