Jump to content

Lasting Power of Attorney


Pie Eater
 Share

Featured Posts

I would suggest this was bad advice to aunt on her will, not the Power of Attorney. If you lived with your mother and she left the house to a charity when she died without provision for you they would sell it under you as well. Same think can happen if you give your home away to your kids. It becomes theirs and not yours anymore

Well it had nothing to do with the will, at all, but I guess assumptions can be made, given the limited amount of information I gave..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well it had nothing to do with the will, at all, but I guess assumptions can be made, given the limited amount of information I gave..

Whilst I accept that you do not wish to divilge personal details, having recently been through the Probate proceedure, I find it impossible to believe that any Charity could claim ownership of a property unless they already owned an interest in it, or a previous owner had left it to them in their will with protected tenancy for the Aunt, but not for her son.

 

Given the possible complications of such a scenario I agree that it would probably be better to use a Solicitor to draw up the paperwork, but straightforward LPA for a parent where all the siblings agree, is a straightforward arrangement which you can easily do yourself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whilst I accept that you do not wish to divilge personal details, having recently been through the Probate proceedure, I find it impossible to believe that any Charity could claim ownership of a property unless they already owned an interest in it, or a previous owner had left it to them in their will with protected tenancy for the Aunt, but not for her son.

 

Given the possible complications of such a scenario I agree that it would probably be better to use a Solicitor to draw up the paperwork, but straightforward LPA for a parent where all the siblings agree, is a straightforward arrangement which you can easily do yourself.

As I stated previously I am meeting with my 2 brothers and 3 sisters on Friday. Whether we can all agree a course of action remains to be seen.

 

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it impossible to believe.....

 

What you believe is up to you, David, but it would be nice if you kept those beliefs private, rather than questioning my honesty in public.

 

I have no interest in discussing the matter. I merely posted it as a warning that, what may appear to be a straightforward matter, that does not require legal assistance, could turn into a nightmare, if the smallest detail is missed.

 

For all their faults, solicitors are trained to examine the smallest detail.

 

Having 2 sisters and a brother, btw, if we are ever in a position where we need to discuss LPA, regarding our parents, I would engage a solicitor, if for no other reason than to act as an independent arbitrator, to referee the inevitable punch up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What you believe is up to you, David, but it would be nice if you kept those beliefs private, rather than questioning my honesty in public.

 

I have no interest in discussing the matter. I merely posted it as a warning that, what may appear to be a straightforward matter, that does not require legal assistance, could turn into a nightmare, if the smallest detail is missed.

 

For all their faults, solicitors are trained to examine the smallest detail.

 

Having 2 sisters and a brother, btw, if we are ever in a position where we need to discuss LPA, regarding our parents, I would engage a solicitor, if for no other reason than to act as an independent arbitrator, to referee the inevitable punch up.

You have clearly misunderstood my post. I was not challenging your honesty, and I hope that others reading my post would not draw the that conclusion. However, I apologise for any offence my wording may have caused.

 

My observations were based upon my understanding of LPA and Wills Probate, and I was suggesting that there must be more to the case outlined by you, than you have suggested. I did actually agree with you that if the case is complicated, a Solicitor should be engaged.

Edited by David Schweizer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When My Mum saw the procedure, she suggested that I should be appointed as her attorney for if/when she suffered the same fate. That was two years ago,

 

Tony.

I set one up for my mum 2 years ago as well, but the rules have changed since then and its not so easy to do now.

 

.

 

Having 2 sisters and a brother, btw, if we are ever in a position where we need to discuss LPA, regarding our parents, I would engage a solicitor, if for no other reason than to act as an independent arbitrator, to referee the inevitable punch up.

That is a very good point, who know, you could be 5 years down the road and have to dispose of some thing that one of the others thought they were entitled to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I'm fiddling about with other peoples' affairs and it involves their care and welfare, I would not take the risk by messing it up, with a slight slip in the wording (which is how my friend's cousin lost a £250k house and all the money to care for him, after the death of his mum).

And this is so easy to do. I was an executor of an estate, disposed of through an inadvisedly worded DIY Will, which ended up a complex and disasterous legal nightmare, cost thousands in legal fees to unravel, and in which none of the deceased's original intentions were met...

My solicitor pointed out just a couple of minor changes to the wording that would have completely obviated all this, if they'd been written in at the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to extend the debate further. My mother has always refused to provide consent and so LPA has been unachievable. We are now in the situation where she has more bad days than good days. At the moment we can pay her day to day bills but paying for a care home wouldn't be viable using our current tactics.

 

What is the way forward if she is in denial but cannot look after her affairs?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to extend the debate further. My mother has always refused to provide consent and so LPA has been unachievable. We are now in the situation where she has more bad days than good days. At the moment we can pay her day to day bills but paying for a care home wouldn't be viable using our current tactics.

 

What is the way forward if she is in denial but cannot look after her affairs?

 

Its a question for the expert but there is provision for what you describe

 

Read up on the site

 

http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/decisions/asking.htm

 

Charles

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Steve,

We have just done this for my mum. Total cost including new will and £70.00 filing fee £325.00 and included 3 visits to the care home where mum is now resident. Took five weeks to organise and complete. LPA could become a very onerous resposibility, IMO get proper advice. Money well spent in my opinion.

Good Luck. Hope mum has more good days than bad.

Lewis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Forms from the Office of the Public Guardian

 

http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/

 

Clearly every case is different and some more complicated than others. My own experience was try and keep it simple, make your own judgements based on your own reserch and consult the so called "experts" as little as possible

 

Charles

Forms arrived this morning (thought it was a telephone directory), quick service from Public Guardian and in time for the family meeting.

 

Very interesting reading so far.

 

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Forms arrived this morning (thought it was a telephone directory), quick service from Public Guardian and in time for the family meeting.

 

Very interesting reading so far.

 

Steve

Just to update everyone who contributed to this thread.

 

We decided not to use a solicitor and sent the completed application in on Thursday 9th December 2010. The OPG acknowledged and said they had a backlog of cases which meant there would be a delay.

 

On Monday 14th March 2011 we received the approved documents back.

 

It was time consuming filling in the forms but we managed to get everyone together on the same day for the necessary signatures before posting it.

 

Many thanks for all your suggestions and advice.

 

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It depends on the assets that are at stake. The more valuable the stake, the less trusting of friends & relatives you should be.

 

Please do use a solicitor.

 

A friend of mine has LPA over her autistic cousin but, because her aunt did not instruct competent legal representation, the house she left to her son, to be managed by a national charity, ended up entirely in their hands and they evicted him, soon after her death.

 

Now my friend has been fighting a doomed legal battle, to regain control of the property and her aunt's estate, to be used for his welfare.

 

It is a truly sorry tale that has left a disabled man with little or no care, after a respected charity scammed his elderly mother out his home and the money set aside for his future welfare, all because of the lack of good legal advice.

This happens more often than you would believe. I've never heard of it happening with a charity (and there is something you can do about it if a charity does this) but it does happen with individuals.

 

Me too. So much so that I have represented myself, in court (and won), and handled the conveyancing, when buying houses, myself...BUT...

 

When I'm fiddling about with other peoples' affairs and it involves their care and welfare, I would not take the risk by messing it up, with a slight slip in the wording (which is how my friend's cousin lost a £250k house and all the money to care for him, after the death of his mum).

 

At some point I will have to go through all of this with my son, who is autistic, and I won't be trusting his future to my barrack room lawyering and an internet download.

Exactly. At some point, Circe and I will be doing the same for our disabled son. There is no way that I am going to entrust our son's future to a half-arsed job for the sake of saving a few hundred quid. Not when we are talking about about bequeathing a lifetime's assets. It's amazing how many families suddenly have relatives with grievances crawling out of the woodwork when assets are left to people with disabilities or dementia. It has happened in both our families.

 

At the very least, if you employ a properly insured lawyer and they cock it up you will have the option of taking action against the lawyer to recover something. If you do it yourself and cock it up, then you have nothing.

 

What matters more than anything else is who you entrust assets to. Personally, I can't see the sense in trying to save a few hundred quid when dealing with the ownership of an entire house. Yes, you save a few hundred quid, which is very nice, but as I have seen happen in my family and as carlt has described - you stand to lose the house.

 

But if all you need is PoA over someone without assets, then you can probably rely on careful research and common sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It depends on the assets that are at stake. The more valuable the stake, the less trusting of friends & relatives you should be.

 

 

This happens more often than you would believe. I've never heard of it happening with a charity (and there is something you can do about it if a charity does this) but it does happen with individuals.

 

 

Exactly. At some point, Circe and I will be doing the same for our disabled son. There is no way that I am going to entrust our son's future to a half-arsed job for the sake of saving a few hundred quid. Not when we are talking about about bequeathing a lifetime's assets. It's amazing how many families suddenly have relatives with grievances crawling out of the woodwork when assets are left to people with disabilities or dementia. It has happened in both our families.

 

At the very least, if you employ a properly insured lawyer and they cock it up you will have the option of taking action against the lawyer to recover something. If you do it yourself and cock it up, then you have nothing.

 

What matters more than anything else is who you entrust assets to. Personally, I can't see the sense in trying to save a few hundred quid when dealing with the ownership of an entire house. Yes, you save a few hundred quid, which is very nice, but as I have seen happen in my family and as carlt has described - you stand to lose the house.

 

But if all you need is PoA over someone without assets, then you can probably rely on careful research and common sense.

Probably one of the biggest dangers is if your will gets contested and when its sorted there is not enough left for the trustees to provide for him as you intended.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Be very careful with this ,I had this situation with my mother a few years ago and decided to do it myself. it was very dificult . The forms are terrible and to dealing with the courts is terrible. If you decide to do it yourself keep a copy of all conversations and names of people you deal with. if I had to do it again I would get a quote from a solicitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...

I know this is an old thread but just to provide further information that anyone that might need it.

An LPA is going to work out cheaper if you can get one

 

We were in asituation where LPA was not a valid option because Mum could not be persuaded of the need. July this year she was put in a home by Social Services for her own good! This caused us to need to apply to the Court of Protection for the right to become deputies. We started the ball rolling in July. That right was granted two weeks ago so quite a lengthy journey.

 

We did not engage a solicitor but had the guidance of a family friend who is a solicitor and specialises in this area. Following his scrutiny it was necessary to change a few things on the forms so not totally straight forward.

 

The costs are not insignificant.

Solicitors fees nil

Cost to apply to the court £400

Cost for doctor to confirm loss of mental capacity £40.

Cost per annum for insurance bond against me running off with Mum's money £300

Cost per annum to be audited by the Office of the Public Guardian to make sure we are doing right by Mum £365

 

So £1100 for the first year and £665 per annum thereafter until she's not got a lot left at which point the charges are reduced.

 

I know my application is more expensive than LPA because I have to pay for court time but just as a matter of interest do the last two items apply to an LPA?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My brother and I have just got LPA on our mother's finances.

The first thing we did was to sit down with family friends who have know her for a long time and work out what mum would want us to do, and not do, with her money and house. We then got the forms off the web (others have posted the links already), went through them and had another sit down with the friends and re-wrote the forms where necessary. Then found that there are a few examples on the Public Guardian's web site and incorporated the most appropriate words into the forms.

At this stage my brother talked to one of the doctors treating mum, who agreed to go through the form with mum and make sure she understood what was being done and agreed with it all - she did (our research must have been good), and the doctor signed that what was said was what mum wanted.

Only at this stage did we involve a solicitor, who was most disappointed that we'd done him out of about four hundred quid. for the preparation and confirmation, but did charge us for the submission and retention (he looks after the stamped master copy, and will supply us, for a fee any required copies).

That was back in July, we've just had the letters and court certified documents back, so allow a good six months.

 

Then the fun starts - my brother and I live at opposite ends of the country, so getting the banks to accept that we are having to go into two different branches to sign the bank's papers is proving to be an "interesting adventure" - why the chuff chuff can't banks read the case number and collate the documents and signatures is beyond me, my brother and the staff in the local branches - I've just spent the best part of two days this week in one branch of one of the high street banks while the staff chase the head office to sort it out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My brother and I have just got LPA on our mother's finances.

The first thing we did was to sit down with family friends who have know her for a long time and work out what mum would want us to do, and not do, with her money and house. We then got the forms off the web (others have posted the links already), went through them and had another sit down with the friends and re-wrote the forms where necessary. Then found that there are a few examples on the Public Guardian's web site and incorporated the most appropriate words into the forms.

At this stage my brother talked to one of the doctors treating mum, who agreed to go through the form with mum and make sure she understood what was being done and agreed with it all - she did (our research must have been good), and the doctor signed that what was said was what mum wanted.

Only at this stage did we involve a solicitor, who was most disappointed that we'd done him out of about four hundred quid. for the preparation and confirmation, but did charge us for the submission and retention (he looks after the stamped master copy, and will supply us, for a fee any required copies).

That was back in July, we've just had the letters and court certified documents back, so allow a good six months.

 

Then the fun starts - my brother and I live at opposite ends of the country, so getting the banks to accept that we are having to go into two different branches to sign the bank's papers is proving to be an "interesting adventure" - why the chuff chuff can't banks read the case number and collate the documents and signatures is beyond me, my brother and the staff in the local branches - I've just spent the best part of two days this week in one branch of one of the high street banks while the staff chase the head office to sort it out.

You have identified the difficult bit about LPA. Getting approval from the Office of the Public Guardian was relatively simple, but getting all the Banks and Building Societies to register is a real pain, especially when there are four siblings, and two of them live in the US.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to look at it from the other side - perhaps it is a good thing that it isn't too easy to set one up as there are some unscrupulous relatives out there who might be inclined to fiddle even family members out of their last remaining assets (present company excluded of course).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We did all this for Mum ages ago (i.e. when she had no need of our decision making!)in the days of EPA for finance only. But it proved very good towards the end and Mum was only too happy to have my sister looking after all the finances.

 

My sister and I are now in the process of setting up LPAs for both health and welfare and property and finance for ourselves and our husbands (if you see what I mean). We're all in perfect health etc. and this is just to avoid having to go through all the processes at a stage when maybe we're not [i.e. in 20 years or so]. My sister's just completed theirs and I need to get on with ours (I'll probably go to my solicitor for at least part of it because I need to update my will too).

 

Luckily we're all lovely and there is no problem about wills being contested, arguments and fallings out! :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.