Ethnic Minorities

[endeva]

I watched Waterworld earlier on tonight (ITV Central) and it had a feature on a retired Priest on a NB with an Asian guy, (think he was a Muslim) and his lad (single parent), it was so refreshing to see both of them Friends because of a common love of nature and the canals, brilliant and well done to Central TV!, the Asian Guy (Lank?) hoped to get a boat of his own eventually

 

Hoorah

[roger]

I watched Waterworld earlier on tonight (ITV Central) and it had a feature on a retired Priest on a NB with an Asian guy, (think he was a Muslim) and his lad (single parent), it was so refreshing to see both of them Friends because of a common love of nature and the canals, brilliant and well done to Central TV!, the Asian Guy (Lank?) hoped to get a boat of his own eventually

 

Hoorah

 

Thats real nice. I wish had seen the programme, lucky you Central viewers! Its hooray from me too many thanks endeva!

[endeva]

you are very welcome, and the chap was a realy nice fella too!, they both were

 

don't forget that everyone has the right to be an individual

 

Rob

[david and julie]

It may surprise you, but I really much would prefer to go boating too! I just dont want my ethnic boating friends to feel marginalised, and the idea of this topic is I hoped were ways or thoughts in which others could actively participate in canals, boating, walking the towpaths, even campaigning, and joining in restoration schemes etc.

 

But Roger you've produced no evidence (save for a rag like article you linked) that anyone is being marginalised on the canals. Anyone in this country can do any of the things you said, including newcomers, irrespective of their colour.

 

When our boat is finished we have several friends including Iranian, Asian and Black(not exactly sure where the black ones are from, we only see them as people and have never seen the need to ask)We also have several gay friends, both male and female, they are all looking forward to a cruise. What makes you think that these people need or even want the likes of you holding their hands?

 

It is surely no coincidence that prior to EU and lottery funding these "charities" fighting any old cause, never existed. Imaginary issues, like this, are just being created to provide somebody, somewhere, with an easy living off the back of hard working people.

 

I had a business for 20 years and I can assure you there is enough red tape as it is. The only thing year end accounts or reports need to contain is financial information. The last thing they need is more nonsensical PC garbage.

 

While your on can you tell me the difference between a subversive racist (me) and a reverse racist (you).

[anhar]

I watched Waterworld earlier on tonight (ITV Central) and it had a feature on a retired Priest on a NB with an Asian guy, (think he was a Muslim) and his lad (single parent), it was so refreshing to see both of them Friends because of a common love of nature and the canals, brilliant and well done to Central TV!, the Asian Guy (Lank?) hoped to get a boat of his own eventually

 

Hoorah

Hello endeva

 

Do you realise how insulting this is? Why is it necessary to identify this chap as an "Asian" or "Muslim". He's just a bloke on a boat, why do you mention his race or religion? The very fact that you or some crass TV show found it necessary to pick him out just because of his ethnic origin is itself a form of racism, even though I'm sure you didn't intend it as such. There are no "Asian" or "Muslim" boaters, there are just boaters

 

I'm with the other readers here who believe this whole issue to be a falsified one, invented so that certain people can make money from it by producing dumb TV shows or running organisations purporting to assist minorities. If there were some sort of bar to these minorities engaging in canalling then all this would have a point but there is nothing to stop anyone taking part should they wish to do so.

 

regards

Steve

Edited January 20, 2006 by anhar

[fuzzyduck]

Man i'm definately with you there.

 

CRE, are trying to justify the existance of the CRE, nothing else.

[roger]

Hello endeva

 

Do you realise how insulting this is? Why is it necessary to identify this chap as an "Asian" or "Muslim". He's just a bloke on a boat, why do you mention his race or religion? The very fact that you or some crass TV show found it necessary to pick him out just because of his ethnic origin is itself a form of racism, even though I'm sure you didn't intend it as such. There are no "Asian" or "Muslim" boaters, there are just boaters

 

I'm with the other readers here who believe this whole issue to be a falsified one, invented so that certain people can make money from it by producing dumb TV shows or running organisations purporting to assist minorities. If there were some sort of bar to these minorities engaging in canalling then all this would have a point but there is nothing to stop anyone taking part should they wish to do so.

 

regards

Steve

 

If there wasnt racism then there wouldnt be a need to describe people as such. Unfortunately there is still racism, and as such until we can be relaxed about people of difference (that is sex, race, disability, creed etc) I dont think Steve's comments are on. Evdeva (Bob meant the comments to be seen positively they were not meant negatively at all in my view considering the context they were in)

 

The news is still so full of racist related incidents and racial hatred and racial violence. The BBC says "Overtly racist behaviour is generally frowned upon but there are clear signs Britain, as a whole, is not at ease with its racial diversity." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4510062.stm

 

My mate who shares my flat with me is black, and muslim, and we share a lot of our lives together so dont go saying that I'm a reverse racist or whatever because that's really silly to say. I'm interested to hear how canallers deal with racism, and if it still exists, how we can deal with it, and how positive we are about differences on the waterways. Full stop.

Edited January 20, 2006 by roger

[fuzzyduck]

I'm interested to hear how canallers deal with racism, and if it still exists, how we can deal with it, and how positive we are about differences on the waterways. Full stop.

 

To put it simply, I don't deal with racism on the cut. No one on my boat is ever likely to be a racist. and as for the more general "differences" i have to say as long as you're friendly, then you are no different to me, you're a "friendly boater".

 

Diversity is something to be embraced, not to hit people over the head with.

[gaggle]

Not wanting to turn this into a political debate, but you must have realised by now that this government is feeding off the middle class. Stealth taxes keep being added quietly, good old Gordon slipped another increase on the red diesel duty recently. It's the easiest place for them to raise money from.

I Know of 5 families that have upped stakes and moved abroad in the last six months, there is a mini middle class exodus going on. Last one to leave the country switch the light off.

so col who are the middle classes feeding off,do they get money from thin air.

as for them that have left the country good riddance to them and their ill gotten gains.

last one to leave the country,i was hearing that when i was a teenager.

a lot of the ethnic people in this country spend any extra money they have on the education of their children and would probably think it a terrible waste of money to sqaunder it on boating or other such luxuries,maybe.

racial hatred and discrimination is a fact of life in britian,to try and say otherwise is not an option in my opinion,when you have the likes of prince phillip making comments about slanty eyes that says enough.

sport it seems to me is an area that is at least trying to change things.

[fuzzyduck]

 

I can now confirm having FOIA'd them on a different matter, that BW can and do accept that they are covered by the act.

[Maffi]

Legislation cannot change peoples thoughts and this diatribe you are putting certainly wont!

 

The second one has already been done many times. I do not speak for what goes on in crime figures, or how they are gathered/manipulated to show certain trends. I think your suggestion is rather cynical, or as Darcus Howe might put it, subversively racist.

 

So if you get your statistics how will you know that they haven't been 'manipulated'

 

Hello endeva

 

Do you realise how insulting this is? Why is it necessary to identify this chap as an "Asian" or "Muslim". He's just a bloke on a boat, why do you mention his race or religion? The very fact that you or some crass TV show found it necessary to pick him out just because of his ethnic origin is itself a form of racism, even though I'm sure you didn't intend it as such. There are no "Asian" or "Muslim" boaters, there are just boaters

 

I think Endeva was just trying to help Roger understand that canalling is not racially exclusive. It is very difficult to describe anyone without including his prominent features, tall, blonde, large, ruddy, pale, tanned etc etc etc. After all this topic is about the lack of EM's on the canal. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

If there wasn't racism then there wouldn't be a need to describe people as such.

 

Tosh! Next you will be saying there is height ism, blonde ism, northern ism etc etc etc

 

Unfortunately there is still racism, and as such until we can be relaxed about people of difference (that is sex, race, disability, creed etc) I don't think Steve's comments are on.

 

And it will never go away. People are people they have the right to think how they choose. The thought police are not here yet.

 

The news is still so full of racist related incidents and racial hatred and racial violence. The BBC says "Overtly racist behaviour is generally frowned upon but there are clear signs Britain, as a whole, is not at ease with its racial diversity." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/4577010.stm

 

So what, why are you trying make an issue of racism on the canals where none existed before?

 

My mate who shares my flat with me is black, and muslim, and we share a lot of our lives together so don't go saying that I'm a reverse racist or whatever because that's really silly to say. I'm interested to hear how canalers deal with racism, and if it still exists, how we can deal with it, and how positive we are about differences on the waterways. Full stop.

 

I wonder what you would be saying if your flat mate wasn't a black Muslim.

 

How do canalers deal with racism? They don't. It is difficult to deal with things if you don't perceive the problem.

 

Why should your friends feel marginalised? They are in a country where the majority population are white, they chose to come here and have to accept that most people are white. It should not stop them doing all the things they want to do.

 

Here in Saudi Arabia if you are blonde haired and blue eyed the local people come up to you and touch your pale skin. They are just curious.

 

In the three years I have been here I have had two flat mates. I describe them (to their face) as the biggest ugliest blackest Americans it has ever been my good fortune to meet. I wouldn't change them for 100 good white faces. We have had a ball.

 

I think those who want to 'see' the race thing should spend a year in Saudi Arabia. Then and only then would you understand what racism really is. Racism in England is what the cutesy middle classes and do gooders , with time on their hands want it to be. Yes Racism exists in England to some extent, but at least employers don't beat ethnics to death.

 

Yes you are a racist because your argument is angled towards blacks and asians. There are many ethnic groups that are not black or asian.

 

On my compound there are people from all over the world Vietnam, Korea, Philippines, Hawaii, Mexico, Japan, America (black & white), England (very few), Germany, Holland, France, Pakistan, India, South Africa (black & white), Nigeria, Jordan and a few I haven't mentioned. I am in two minority groups. I don't hide the fact that I am a gypsy. And it is obvious that I am English. It's no big deal.

 

What you have done in raising this issue here is not to the benefit of canalling or the race issue. Henceforth people will take notice of a persons colour, where as before they probably didn't really notice. Shame on you!

Edited January 20, 2006 by Maffi

[fuzzyduck]

Henceforth people will take notice of a persons colour, where as before they probably didn't really notice. Shame on you!

 

Couldn't agree more with that statement. Thanks Maffi

[Keeping Up]

Well done Maffi for making such a clear, unbiased and sensible set of statements!

 

Allan

[gaggle]

not exactly tosh,the recent study results showed that people do have preconceived idea,s about people from regions,scots accent may bring distrust,geordie may suggest violence,scouser may suggest dishonesty,yorkshire accent may be percieved as honest ect ect.

 

no thought police as yet.?

well that it seems is the whole point of the anti racism message,to change and police the way people think about certain things.

 

dont let the advertisers know they have no influence on the way we think and act,they wont believe you.

 

our whole existence is policed and manipulated one way or the other,thoughts and actions,everything.

it may take genetic modification to sort us all out.

[Moley]

Well done Maffi for making such a clear, unbiased and sensible set of statements!

Allan

 

Here here!

 

In fact Maffi's numerous posts on this thread have all been excellent.

 

On our recent 2 week hire we met and spoke to people from a wide range of countries and backgrounds. Looking back, I seem to recall speaking to one black man off a boat, and now seem to recall that he was a fairly well-to-do, middle class black man, but at the time I never even considered either colour or class. Henceforward, unfortunately, I probably will.

 

Roger; although fairly new to this forum, I have entered into 'conversation' with many people from all walks of life, and there are quite a few that I would really hope to meet some day - you ain't one of 'em.

 

Jon - I think all that needs to be said has been said - end it.

[Maffi]

a lot of the ethnic people in this country spend any extra money they have on the education of their children and would probably think it a terrible waste of money to sqaunder it on boating ..............................

 

Funny that, I lived in The Sultanate of Oman for a year, and there my Omani friends thought it was wasteful not to throw a net over the side when we went out on a boat.

 

Different strokes.........................

 

 

............... I seem to recall speaking to one black man off a boat, and now seem to recall that he was a fairly well-to-do, middle class black man, but at the time I never even considered either colour or class.

 

So it is just possible that if more ethnic people come to the canals they may 'all' be middle class then someone else could have a go about the social exclusion of very rich and poor people.

 

One for Gaggle methinks!

 

 

Couldn't agree more with that statement. Thanks Maffi

Well done Maffi for making such a clear, unbiased and sensible set of statements!

Here here! In fact Maffi's numerous posts on this thread have all been excellent.

 

Sometimes I surprise myself

Edited January 20, 2006 by Maffi

[DHutch]

Maffi's numerous posts on this thread have all been excellent.

Yeah, ive been reading this thread with interest, and maffi's posts have indeed been excellent.

- Very sensable down-to-earth comments, which in the main, i agree with.

 

 

Daniel

[bottle]

Hi All

 

Be careful or Maffi will need a wide beam instead of the narrow boat allegedly being built for him at the moment.

 

Hi Maffi great to see you have not lost your touch.

 

 

Ps my spell check wants to change Maffi to trafffic.

[roger]

Legislation cannot change peoples thoughts and this diatribe you are putting certainly wont!

So if you get your statistics how will you know that they haven't been 'manipulated'

I think Endeva was just trying to help Roger understand that canalling is not racially exclusive. It is very difficult to describe anyone without including his prominent features, tall, blonde, large, ruddy, pale, tanned etc etc etc. After all this topic is about the lack of EM's on the canal. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

Tosh! Next you will be saying there is height ism, blonde ism, northern ism etc etc etc

And it will never go away. People are people they have the right to think how they choose. The thought police are not here yet.

So what, why are you trying make an issue of racism on the canals where none existed before?

I wonder what you would be saying if your flat mate wasn't a black Muslim.

 

How do canalers deal with racism? They don't. It is difficult to deal with things if you don't perceive the problem.

 

Why should your friends feel marginalised? They are in a country where the majority population are white, they chose to come here and have to accept that most people are white. It should not stop them doing all the things they want to do.

 

Here in Saudi Arabia if you are blonde haired and blue eyed the local people come up to you and touch your pale skin. They are just curious.

 

In the three years I have been here I have had two flat mates. I describe them (to their face) as the biggest ugliest blackest Americans it has ever been my good fortune to meet. I wouldn't change them for 100 good white faces. We have had a ball.

 

I think those who want to 'see' the race thing should spend a year in Saudi Arabia. Then and only then would you understand what racism really is. Racism in England is what the cutesy middle classes and do gooders , with time on their hands want it to be. Yes Racism exists in England to some extent, but at least employers don't beat ethnics to death.

 

Yes you are a racist because your argument is angled towards blacks and asians. There are many ethnic groups that are not black or asian.

 

On my compound there are people from all over the world Vietnam, Korea, Philippines, Hawaii, Mexico, Japan, America (black & white), England (very few), Germany, Holland, France, Pakistan, India, South Africa (black & white), Nigeria, Jordan and a few I haven't mentioned. I am in two minority groups. I don't hide the fact that I am a gypsy. And it is obvious that I am English. It's no big deal.

 

What you have done in raising this issue here is not to the benefit of canalling or the race issue. Henceforth people will take notice of a persons colour, where as before they probably didn't really notice. Shame on you!

 

Shame on you too for such a narrow minded analysis! Blacks, and asians? I have not begun this arugement with a focus on these because there are so many different ethnic groups! Other people brought up these terms, not me. And I dont agree about your statement on people not noticing - they do notice and they do stare, because its so rare on the canals! What a brilliant set of twisted analysis designed to make it look as if I am a racist etc etc. Lovely. Look at Celebrity Big Brother this last couple of days, and the aguements on racism, allowing blacks, asians etc to win CBB. Now as I am also in a minority group myself (one where people say gosh, bloody hell, there are so many different races, and so many different creeds and beliefs all happily together, this would never happen in mainstream society - some radical thought people dropped their jaw at how our group cohesively merges so easily - they said it cant happen - thats the sort the sort of thing we are often told by people outside of our society, so we do know what people think out there because they themselves tell us) I wonder what will be next.... sorry the whale's on TV live its so much more interesting than this forum! (They said they might have to shoot the whale because its not in the right environment - sick creeps - I bet the whale would love to shoot them for polluting it or what ever and causing it to get disorented in the first place, I hope the whale knocks several of those bloody boats over, that would be a satisfactory conclusion and a lesson for arrogant humans)

Edited January 20, 2006 by roger

[Pirate]

Religion

 

Politics

 

Race

 

Best steer clear of any of these subjects unless you like arguements.

I would have thought it, everyone with any sence`s rule No` 1.

 

All I can say is.....Minority?

[roger]

Religion

 

Politics

 

Race

 

Best steer clear of any of these subjects unless you like arguements.

I would have thought it, everyone with any sence`s rule No` 1.

 

All I can say is.....Minority?

 

Yes I agree, I'm staying off it, let someone else take the crap.

[CanalWalker]

there is one minority group that dominates canal boating, fishing etc: MEN! only 49% of the population and yet a I bet there are in the majority of canal users.

[Maffi]

Shame on you too for such a narrow minded analysis! Blacks, and asians? I have not begun this arugement with a focus on these because there are so many different ethnic groups! Other people brought up these terms, not me. And I dont agree about your statement on people not noticing - they do notice and they do stare, because its so rare on the canals! What a brilliant set of twisted analysis designed to make it look as if I am a racist etc etc. Lovely. Look at Celebrity Big Brother this last couple of days, and the aguements on racism, allowing blacks, asians etc to win CBB. Now as I am also in a minority group myself (one where people say gosh, bloody hell, there are so many different races, and so many different creeds and beliefs all happily together, this would never happen in mainstream society - some radical thought people dropped their jaw at how our group cohesively merges so easily - they said it cant happen - thats the sort the sort of thing we are often told by people outside of our society, so we do know what people think out there because they themselves tell us) I wonder what will be next.... sorry the whale's on TV live its so much more interesting than this forum! (They said they might have to shoot the whale because its not in the right environment - sick creeps - I bet the whale would love to shoot them for polluting it or what ever and causing it to get disorented in the first place, I hope the whale knocks several of those bloody boats over, that would be a satisfactory conclusion and a lesson for arrogant humans)

 

 

Roger

 

I talk the talk because I walked the walked, and am still walking it. How dare you have the temerity to say I am narrow minded.

 

Two weeks in Costa Packet every year does not make you a seasoned minorities campaigner.

 

If you really want to understand racism and how it works come out here and see for yourself. It starts the minute you enter the airport. I am guaranteed to get a taxi before a Pakistani but never before a Saudi.

 

If you want to see real racism in the UK go and have a look at how the CRE does its business.

 

Now be a good boy and go watch the TV.

 

Yes I agree, I'm staying off it, let someone else take the crap.

 

 

Wimp!

[John Orentas]

Maffi.

 

Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia, Ha.

 

You need to spend a night in my local pub in Oldham you will hear some real racist talk.

[Maffi]

Maffi.

 

Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia, Ha.

 

You need to spend a night in my local pub in Oldham you will hear some real racist talk.

 

 

But at least they keep their knives and guns in their pockets and not on the bar top.