Ethnic Minorities

[nigel carton]

erm.. not them pc's

[Sam]

erm.. not them pc's

 

Ohhh the things with mice and keyboards???

[Moley]

I realise that our ethnic brethren seem to be mainly urban, and canals and stuff are largely rural, but thinking about it, do 'they' actually take what 'we' would class as holidays?

 

After all, as someone has previously pointed out, they don't seem interested in boating or camping, or even in British beaches (can you blame 'em?), so maybe it's a deeper cultural difference.

 

Are there actually any non-white members on this forum who would care to enlighten us?

 

Is it (as Bottle suggested) that they don't know the canal system is there, or do they know it's there but can see no good reason for going there (like America)?

 

-----------------------------------

 

edit: I would just like to state for the record that I have been educated in and worked for most of my adult life in and around Wolverhampton (which is about as multi-racial as any place you might find), had my own design-for-print business for 14 years and worked closely with and for the Hindu, Sikh and Moslem communities, so no-one's laying the race card on me.

 

There are good and bad in all communities but any business will have their share of bad customers, and I have been 'turned over' by more whites than blacks. (Incidentally, I will never forget the very first non-paying job I did, a customer who took artwork away and never came back - it was for a United Reformed Church!)

Edited January 17, 2006 by Moley

[Maffi]

What about if it was someone else who asked? Just because it is I, you think it is sus? I've just watched the Richard Dawkins' programme on Ch 4, and thankfully I'm not one of those who have a bigoted focus of things. I think we need to get more variety of people onto the canals. - considering some of the responses so far. I hoped there would have been a much more interesting, constructive discussion.

 

Roger

 

I don't know you, where you come from.

 

You may think we need to get more variety on the canals but why? People will come to the canals if they want to, much the same as we all did.

 

"Narrow boats are for everyone - not narrow minded like people" this sound to me like an attempt to say something very profound ........... that failed miserably.

 

Of course we are like minded that's why we are boaters.

 

For the same reason you will find like minded people at football matches and like minded people at the race track you will find like minded people at the canal.

 

It will be a sad day in the morning if boaters didn't like canals.

 

I don't know if you expected everyone to don their PC hats and jump on your band waggon, but they didn't. They said what they feel. If you don't call that an interesting and constructive discussion then might I suggest that it is you who are at fault. You seemingly expected a particular response, which you didn't get.

 

The link you posted is a poor piece of reporting, very flimsy on content and with little fact to back up it's argument.

 

You seem to be asking us to accept people who have different cultures and attitudes, yet fail to accept us who have different cultures and attitudes.

 

Educate the minorities in the pleasures of canalling by all means, but every time you make a minority person a boater, by buying or helping them to buy a boat you may piss off people who did it the hard way. People who struggled to get the money together and stuck their neck out to get a boat, and I do mean stuck their neck out.

 

We should all welcome anyone who wants to join the boating community irrespective of class, creed or colour, but once you have given them the taster it should be down to them to get their own boat, they will enjoy it all the more. Anything else is positive discrimination and divisive.

 

Now if you would like to PM me after my boat is launched I will be only too glad to offer day trips to anyone who could not otherwise get afloat, notwithstanding, that I have a queue of Arabs wanting to come over for a trip.

 

Salaam

Edited January 17, 2006 by Maffi

[roger]

Roger

 

I don't know you, where you come from.

 

You may think we need to get more variety on the canals but why? People will come to the canals if they want to, much the same as we all did.

 

"Narrow boats are for everyone - not narrow minded like people" this sound to me like an attempt to say something very profound ........... that failed miserably.

 

Of course we are like minded that's why we are boaters.

 

For the same reason you will find like minded people at football matches and like minded people at the race track you will find like minded people at the canal.

 

It will be a sad day in the morning if boaters didn't like canals.

 

I don't know if you expected everyone to don their PC hats and jump on your band waggon, but they didn't. They said what they feel. If you don't call that an interesting and constructive discussion then might I suggest that it is you who are at fault. You seemingly expected a particular response, which you didn't get.

 

The link you posted is a poor piece of reporting, very flimsy on content and with little fact to back up it's argument.

 

You seem to be asking us to accept people who have different cultures and attitudes, yet fail to accept us who have different cultures and attitudes.

 

Educate the minorities in the pleasures of canalling by all means, but every time you make a minority person a boater, by buying or helping them to buy a boat you may piss off people who did it the hard way. People who struggled to get the money together and stuck their neck out to get a boat, and I do mean stuck their neck out.

 

We should all welcome anyone who wants to join the boating community irrespective of class, creed or colour, but once you have given them the taster it should be down to them to get their own boat, they will enjoy it all the more. Anything else is positive discrimination and divisive.

 

Now if you would like to PM me after my boat is launched I will be only too glad to offer day trips to anyone who could not otherwise get afloat, notwithstanding, that I have a queue of Arabs wanting to come over for a trip.

 

Salaam

 

Thanks for your piece but I think you get the wrong end of the stick. There is nothing wrong with asking questions. As the previous thread asked, do we have any non-whites on the forum who might be able to give their opinions? I would be enligtened to be shown that I am in the wrong orbit - if they can show me that. However, there is no need to shoot me down in the way you have. And as for it being supposedly pc, well thats also rubbish. I must mention that the regulars who join me on the canal are arabic, so I have already made progress in my own small way and I am happy, though of course probably they are not as dedicated as I am to the canals.

[endeva]

Thanks for your piece but I think you get the wrong end of the stick. There is nothing wrong with asking questions. As the previous thread asked, do we have any non-whites on the forum who might be able to give their opinions? I would be enligtened to be shown that I am in the wrong orbit - if they can show me that. However, there is no need to shoot me down in the way you have. And as for it being supposedly pc, well thats also rubbish. I must mention that the regulars who join me on the canal are arabic, so I have already made progress in my own small way and I am happy, though of course probably they are not as dedicated as I am to the canals.

 

salama lakum (may your God be with you)

 

shokaran (thank you)

 

I think? (Arabic)

[roger]

salama lakum (may your God be with you)

 

shokaran (thank you)

 

I think? (Arabic)

 

inshallah

[endeva]

inshallah

 

got me there mate!

 

but at least I tried

[Jon]

This is, in the current climate a very emotive topic. Thank you to all contributors for handling it so well.

 

I think the nail has been hit on the head a number of times. The canals are open for anyone to enjoy. It is likely a cultural difference that means that more white british people choose this way of life than others.

 

Roger, I would imagine BW would provide those statistics in their annual report.

 

Please continue to discuss in the same manner.

 

Many thanks,

 

Jon

[roger]

This is, in the current climate a very emotive topic. Thank you to all contributors for handling it so well.

 

I think the nail has been hit on the head a number of times. The canals are open for anyone to enjoy. It is likely a cultural difference that means that more white british people choose this way of life than others.

 

Roger, I would imagine BW would provide those statistics in their annual report.

 

Please continue to discuss in the same manner.

 

Many thanks,

 

Jon

 

No statistical mention at all in the BW's Annual report 2005. It might have be an oversight as I would imagine that people, like myself, would be interested in the statistical stuff, not as a pc thing, but as a matter of pure interest. One member of the BW non-executive board is (or was, as their term finished in 2004) ethnic.

 

Jon, thanks for your thoughts, yes I appreciate it is an emotive subject.

[Maffi]

salama lakum (may your God be with you)

 

 

As salaam alaykum (the peace of God be upon you). A moslem would never suggest that there is other than one God, well certainly not in this neck of the woods.

[pquinn]

dont know if this is reevant but we will be moving on to our wide beam in the next month or so .and the attitude of people in ireland is that the canal is nothing more than a sewer.they think we are nuts.even though they have never even walked 100 yards of its banks,i am amazed when i go to england of the interest etc. in canals and boats. as far as i know there are less than 100 liveaboards in ireland.most people think that boating means having a sailing yacht on the sea or a large cruiser on the shannon, its a strange form of snobbery..............out side of charley pride can anyone name a black man that plays country and western exclusivly.ray charles doesnt count.

[CanalWalker]

canals and stuff are largely rural

 

I wouldnt call Liverpool, Bootle, Blackburn, Wigan, Leeds, Burnley, Manchester, Birmingham etc rural...

 

I would like to see some figures about who uses canals and what for. I woudl be interested in the proportion of boaters/users whoa re disabled for example.

[bottle]

I wouldnt call Liverpool, Bootle, Blackburn, Wigan, Leeds, Burnley, Manchester, Birmingham etc rural...

 

I would like to see some figures about who uses canals and what for. I woudl be interested in the proportion of boaters/users whoa re disabled for example.

 

Sorry haven't got any numbers but a lot of humans use it to float something they call boats and there are also some animals that use it for a home and food supply.

[david and julie]

No statistical mention at all in the BW's Annual report 2005. It might have be an oversight as I would imagine that people, like myself, would be interested in the statistical stuff, not as a pc thing, but as a matter of pure interest. One member of the BW non-executive board is (or was, as their term finished in 2004) ethnic.

 

Roger you would like to see a breakdown of staff employed, or more specifically their ethnicity. Fair enough.

 

I would like to see a breakdown of crime rates in the inner cities and the ethnicity of the ones responsible. Not because I think ethnics are responsible for more crime, just because I find figures interesting.

 

You find the first acceptable what about the second?

[nigel carton]

Roger you would like to see a breakdown of staff employed, or more specifically their ethnicity. Fair enough.

 

I would like to see a breakdown of crime rates in the inner cities and the ethnicity of the ones responsible. Not because I think ethnics are responsible for more crime, just because I find figures interesting.

 

You find the first acceptable what about the second?

Actually, now you mention it, I would find it very interesting to see a breakdown of religious faiths in the armed forces.. for example, how many Muslims,Christians etc. again I find facts and figures interesting!

[roger]

Roger you would like to see a breakdown of staff employed, or more specifically their ethnicity. Fair enough.

 

I would like to see a breakdown of crime rates in the inner cities and the ethnicity of the ones responsible. Not because I think ethnics are responsible for more crime, just because I find figures interesting.

 

You find the first acceptable what about the second?

 

The second one has already been done many times. I do not speak for what goes on in crime figures, or how they are gathered/manipulated to show certain trends. I think your suggestion is rather cynical, or as Darcus Howe might put it, subversively racist.

[Amicus]

snip

I read there was some concern canals are "middle class, white people." (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3590658.stm)

 

Roger

 

 

Buggeration*........I'm working class.

Ah well, dust off plan B

 

* me old mum used to say that so it must be allright

[david and julie]

The second one has already been done many times. I do not speak for what goes on in crime figures, or how they are gathered/manipulated to show certain trends. I think your suggestion is rather cynical, or as Darcus Howe might put it, subversively racist.

Now why am I not suprised at your reply Roger? You also said this earlier.

What about if it was someone else who asked? Just because it is I, you think it is sus? I've just watched the Richard Dawkins' programme on Ch 4, and thankfully I'm not one of those who have a bigoted focus of things.

I can only quote Victor Meldrew on that one I'm afraid.

 

Roger it may suprise you, but most of us prefer boating to this kind of tosh.

[Jon]

Thanks guys, lets make sure this stays around the boating theme and doesn't venture into crime statistics etc please.

 

Roger, I'm really surprised that BW don't publish that. It may be that they take a similar view to us in that it is not important, but so many companies publish those statistics to prove they are an equal opportunities employer. Have you tried to contact their press office?

 

Jon

[fuzzyduck]

Or.... you could try an FOIA act request for Information.

[Jon]

It was my understanding that the Freedom of Information Act only applied to public bodies. Would this apply to BW?

 

Jon

[fuzzyduck]

didn't Jim Shead FOIA that boat listing out of both BW and EA?

 

Just checked the list

 

BW, EA and the Broads authority are all on the list

Edited January 19, 2006 by fuzzyduck

[roger]

Now why am I not suprised at your reply Roger? You also said this earlier.

 

I can only quote Victor Meldrew on that one I'm afraid.

 

Roger it may suprise you, but most of us prefer boating to this kind of tosh.

It may surprise you, but I really much would prefer to go boating too! I just dont want my ethnic boating friends to feel marginalised, and the idea of this topic is I hoped were ways or thoughts in which others could actively participate in canals, boating, walking the towpaths, even campaigning, and joining in restoration schemes etc.

 

If you wonder why I said that 'earlier' stuff, you only have to look at the messages that preceeded it, I was hurt at the silly and immature comments, surely things could have been more constructive?

 

Roger, I'm really surprised that BW don't publish that. It may be that they take a similar view to us in that it is not important, but so many companies publish those statistics to prove they are an equal opportunities employer. Have you tried to contact their press office?

 

Jon

 

Yes I am surprised at this because I thought it was quite normal practice. Does anyone know the press office email? I can only find enquiries.hq@britishwaterways.co.uk on their website.

[fuzzyduck]

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/images/F..._tcm6-71385.pdf

 

seems to be a current document on social inclusion, and what they are doing with it.

 

Below is a link to their equal ops policy (no stats)

 

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/images/E..._tcm6-71775.pdf

Edited January 20, 2006 by fuzzyduck