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Djuwenda

Atheist Boaters fellowship

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"It would appear" to whom?

 

You make statements of fact with absolutely no evidence or even sound reasoning.

 

Quoting or linking to someone who has similar fanciful ideas is merely saying that there is someone else in the world who regards a vivid imagination as more important than logic and reason.

 

Your personality and intellect stays with the brain until all electrical activity ceases, then it switches off.

 

This is observable fact, anything beyond that is fanciful wishful thinking.

Still your opinion.

OK, checking it out, first thing I come up with is: there's not a single experience on Earth that could ever be as good as being dead. Nothing

What's to stop everyone killing themselves in that case?

 

Second thing is: this guy has a degree in computer science and 'learned web site development'? When did he forget it then?

 

Third thing: sorry, I'm out.

So am I.

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There is no need for a god and absolutely no evidence to suggest that there is one.

 

 

Written and personal testimony is acceptable as evidence in law, as an example. The presence of the universe is evidence of a creator.

 

The proffered evidence may be insufficient to prove a hypothesis or be capable of alternative, more probable explanation or be contradicted by other witnesses or evidence, but that is not to say there is no evidence.

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When I was small I lived in a valley. Obviously that was the whole world and outside was just the fantasy of people with time on their hands.

I grew a little a managed to reach the top of the surrounding hills. Obviously the world was a bit bigger than I had thought but I soon forgot about the small world and was happy that I knew what was what.

I grew more and reached across countries and seas. Obviously the world was large, round and flat, anyone could see that. And beyond was the fantasies of etc. I soon forgot that I had thought differently.

Still greater I grew and now the world was round and the fantasies were now above my head but still I understood my place at the centre of all things.

Until one day I could look out and see hundreds of thousands of galaxies with stars being born and destroyed. Obviously they had a beginning because everything I know has a beginning, a point where it is created, and any concept of things always being in existence but only in limited visibility because I am based in time is just the fantasies of the dreamers.

And then I realised that out there is truly infinite, not just big but infinite, something quite different altogether. Out there is every possible universe at every possible interval of time and many for which time itself is meaningless. And of these an infinite number are completely unreachable and unknowable by us, we can only know that any attempt to restrict the number would just be put a human attribute, that of a limitation, on something that is infinite. Out there is every possible thing.

I don't believe the universe had a beginning in a human sense. I believe the big bang is always happening but we can't see it. For all practical purposes we can pretend that it happened in the past as we see time. The important difference is that we no longer need a creator. Existing is the norm, being limited and requiring a start and a stop is just a characteristic of our limited viewpoint.

One of Einstein's great contributions was to demonstrate that time does not work as simply as we used to think.

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Interesting that you dismissed my account (of when I had several near death "experiences" due to complications with a ruptured appendix) because it did not fit in with what you believe.

 

Personally I believe my experience differed because I was young enough not to have been influenced by other folks' accounts.

 

I don't think it is at all surprising, mystical or supernatural that, when brains are shutting down in similar ways, similar hallucinations occur as it is starved by oxygen especially when those images are already "implanted" with contact with popular culture.

There has been quite a bit of medical research on the subject and it appears that massive release of a substance called DMT. (Dimethyltryptamine) from the pineal gland when the body is shutting down is the primary suspect for this phenomenon. The symptoms can be induced by injecting DMT into normal subjects.

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Love is just an efficient mechanism for making us reproduce. If it wasn't then Evolution would have bred it out of us centuries ago. It is nice to think we are special & not just another animal but if you can explain everything without needing to have something "special" then why do so? Before we believe these fancies, we should examine ourselves more carefully and ask "why are we attracted to fanciful ideas?".

 

I think that's sex...not love...

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I think that's sex...not love...

Ok, I'll elaborate. Love is a mechanism for making sure that the results of sex are successfully brought to maturity.

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It seems that any guess can be given substance by tacking "Quantum" on to it. I believe that the universe existed in an infinitely small, dense state and went bang. If I de tune my radio I can still hear it. The likes of Copernicus and Darwin have not made a guess and plonked it down with a claim that it is a guess as relevant as any other. To simply declare "That is what I believe" does not add import to a belief. We have doubtless sincere folk quoting what appear to be outlandish theories that really may as well have a dung beetle pushing the sun across the sky, we have people struggling to understand how one comes upon such beliefs but so far there seems little answer other than it just feels right. I have read the "airmen who would not die" and found it to be one of those basically throwaway books concerning the human fascination with mystery and I am astonished to see that it is evidence!

It would be silly to deny the existence of the world outside because it's dark out there, and we have had the analogy of living in a valley and not knowing what is outside it. This does not mean we can all be free to postulate anything we like outside the valley and secure in the knowledge no one will look expect any fanciful guess to be respected and added to the store of human wisdom. Science looks for us. Science invents the torch to see in the dark, climbs to the rim of the valley and sets up a telescope. Whatever is real can be observed and the continually moving "God of the gaps" where deity moves around to occupy whatever space science has not yet illuminated is getting rather tiresome.


Whilst I'm here let's not forget the true meaning of Christmas. The longest night is past and the light has begun to return. Happy solstice.

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Written and personal testimony is acceptable as evidence in law, as an example. The presence of the universe is evidence of a creator.

 

The proffered evidence may be insufficient to prove a hypothesis or be capable of alternative, more probable explanation or be contradicted by other witnesses or evidence, but that is not to say there is no evidence.

 

Evidence in law, as you put it, is subject to examination and cross-examination to determine its reliability.

Scientific discoveries are subject to examination in order to try to disprove theories. When this fails they are considered to be facts.

 

The assertion that 'the presence of the universe is evidence of a creator' is arrant nonsense. Where, then, did the creator come from? Was there a hyper-creator to make it? What then created the hyper-creator? (Turtles all the way down comes to mind).

 

I'm sorry, but postulating a creator does nothing but push the question back just one stage; it doesn't answer anything at all.

 

And there is no evidence for it.

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The assertion that 'the presence of the universe is evidence of a creator' is arrant nonsense. Where, then, did the creator come from? Was there a hyper-creator to make it? What then created the hyper-creator?

Where, then, did the Big Bang come from? Was there a Big Bang before that? What then caused the hyper-Big Bang?

 

I've often wondered if the universe has always been here (no beginning and no end). Every few trillion years there's a Big Bang caused by everything being pulled together into a finite point. The energy of the bang spreads everything outwards then eventually gets pulled back in for another Big Bang...and so on. Even if that theory was true, how did the 'system' get there in the first place?

 

I'm not sure that science is the right way to prove whether God exists. That answer comes through our heart from our own individual experiences in life's journey.

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Where, then, did the Big Bang come from? Was there a Big Bang before that? What then caused the hyper-Big Bang?

 

...

 

I'm not sure that science is the right way to prove whether God exists. That answer comes through our heart from our own individual experiences in life's journey.

 

I don't think you understand the concept, because this is a meaningless question.

 

Science cannot be used to prove the existence of something that does not exist.

 

Answers can only come from the brain, not from any other organ (we're going round in circles now). Pondering it in your heart (there's a seasonal misquote for you!) is just a figurative way of putting it when you mean 'thinking'.

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I don't think you understand the concept, because this is a meaningless question.

 

Science cannot be used to prove the existence of something that does not exist.

 

'.

But surely there are things that exist that science can not today prove and vice versa this has been the case through history so presumably it continues to be for the future. Not a believer in a physical God but think faith is a powerful human emotion positive or negative that can be a strong bond.

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But surely there are things that exist that science can not today prove and vice versa this has been the case through history so presumably it continues to be for the future. Not a believer in a physical God but think faith is a powerful human emotion positive or negative that can be a strong bond.

 

None of which contradicts what I said. We know gravity exists but not yet how gravitational forces actually work. Quantum mechanics may come into it.

Yes, faith is a powerful emotion but that says nothing whatsoever about whether that faith is misplaced. The fact that something is desirable doesn't make it true.

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I don't think you understand the concept, because this is a meaningless question.

 

Science cannot be used to prove the existence of something that does not exist.

 

Answers can only come from the brain, not from any other organ...

I doubt our brain was responsible for creating the universe (or it just being there) so not every answer comes from the human brain.

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I doubt our brain was responsible for creating the universe (or it just being there) so not every answer comes from the human brain.

Eh? Where did I say it was?

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Eh? Where did I say it was?

You didn't...I was just pointing out that our brain is not responsible for creating the universe so the answer might come from something other than the human brain...

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None of which contradicts what I said. We know gravity exists but not yet how gravitational forces actually work. Quantum mechanics may come into it.

Yes, faith is a powerful emotion but that says nothing whatsoever about whether that faith is misplaced. The fact that something is desirable doesn't make it true.

So we don't know a "white hole" exists but it might do , but as we don't know it exists and science is unable to explain does that it mean it doesn't.

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Written and personal testimony is acceptable as evidence in law, as an example. The presence of the universe is evidence of a creator.

The presence of the universe is not evidence of a creator at all, you would just like it to be, and I'm afraid "god spoke to me" is no more admissible than "I saw pixies dancing round mushrooms."

Still your opinion.

No, not my opinion but common sense and rational, logical thought dismissing fairy tales and naive attempts to attribute supernatural influence because you don't understand the science.

What do you think is the true meaning of Christmas (as opposed to the Winter Solstice)?

A time when families get together and exchange gifts without the intervention of an imaginary friend.

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What do you think is the true meaning of Christmas (as opposed to the Winter Solstice)?

Where is it laid down that Christmas has to have a special meaning? It is a mid winter festival concerned with the return of the sun. it has had a fairy story superimposed upon it for political reasons and evolved toward a secular festival of goodwill. There is no more "meaning" to dec 25th than to new year or august bank holiday.

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You didn't...I was just pointing out that our brain is not responsible for creating the universe so the answer might come from something other than the human brain...

As this universe came into being several billion years before the brain it is fairly obvious that it was not created by humans.

 

You demonstrate a lack of understanding of the Big Bang if you feel that a conscious being was necessary for it to happen though.

 

The universe predated Man and Man predated all the various gods he has created to explain away things he doesn't yet understand.

 

As to the meaning of xmas why should it have any special significance other than a random day on which man has decided to hold a regular celebration.

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So we don't know a "white hole" exists but it might do , but as we don't know it exists and science is unable to explain does that it mean it doesn't.

 

So might a teapot orbiting near Mars, but better minds than mine have long since dealt with that infinitely remote possibility.

 

We are talking about probabilities here. You could postulate any number of very unlikely things, the existence of which science could not conclusively disprove, but that doesn't make them any more likely. For all practical purposes it is perfectly valid to conclude that they don't exist, though.

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