Oil Lamps in Back Cabins

[Paul H]

I hadn't realised until we were some way into this thread, that the Aladdin lamps under discussion might be the pressure lamps with mantles.

If this is the case, personally, I wouldn't have one on my boat even for emergency lighting. OK if for purely decorative only purposes, but:

 

The oil burner needs pre-heating with meths; the mantles and glass can be expensive to replace (and they are disposable items); you can light a cigarette instantly at the top of the glass. I reckon they are extrememly dangerous on boats ............. BUT, I can see the attraction if they are converted to battery operation!

 

Apologies if I have got the wrong end of the stick with the type of lamp under discussion, but I have experience of those lamps when it was the only lighting in my Uncle's holiday home and we had a few potentially dangerous incidents.

Aladdin lamps are not pressure lamps but they do have a mantle. I'd say their light input was somewhere betwwen the Tilley pressure type and a basic wick type hurricane lamp. They get very hot and I'd think you could also do the cigarette trick with Aladdins. Of couse the other problem wuth mantles - apart from producing a fiercer light - is that once lit they are very brittle and can shatter with the vibration of an engine let alone been knocked.

 

Paul

Edited September 14, 2010 by Paul H

[David Schweizer]

We need to avoid some confusion here. Aladdin lamps are not pressure lamps, but Bialaddin lamps are.

 

Aladdin lamps work in the same way as conventional lamps and can be lit with a match or taper. The mantle merely increses the light output. Bialaddin lamps are also mantle lamps, similar to Tilley, Vapalux, and Veritas lamps but with a pump up pressurized tank, and require pre-heating with methylated spirit in the same way that a Primus stove does.

 

I have never had any problems with my Tilley lamp, but would never leave it unattended (or any other oil lamp come to that. I would certainly think twice before using one on a boat.

[Derek R.]

I concur with David and Paul. Though Tilleys and Bialaddins (and the later Vapalux) are dual fuel PRESSURE lamps needing meths for pre-heating, I have never experienced any problems with either on board. However, such lamps in a back cabin is overkill with regard to light. The brilliance, and noise of perpetual hissing, apart from the physical size make them unsuitable for back cabins. Fine as tunnel lights though with a shield to mask light back to the steerer.

 

Also worth remembering that a wick lamp was the regular headlight/tunnel light for years.

 

I would also warn against lighting a cigarette against the glass of any 'hot' lamp - such introduces a relative 'cold spot' and may cause the glass to fracture, it's probably unlikely, but worth noting.

 

Wick and mantle lamps are non-pressurised, but as stated, whilst the mantles are available, wicks are much more widely available and much, much cheaper. Such mantle lamps are quite a specialist item, and would almost NOT have been used in a back cabin due to expense and complexity.

Good website for Aladdin mantle lamps for views and showing of parts here http://www.aladdinlamps.info/

Also a good forum at Be Back Later here http://www.be-back-later.com/forums/ This is a keyhole to a vast array of lamps and lanterns. The insanity is global.

 

Stick with going for a simple wick lamp, they are more robust and you will never have any broken mantles from any vibration, check out the other links in post number 14 on the previous page. Missing chimneys are available from several sources in many sizes. Kosmos burners are good, they take a flat wick and curl it into a circle - they must have the correct shaped chimney. Other types have single flat wicks, or two (Duplex). Check out the spares available from Base Camp.

 

Speaking of vibration, mantle lamps were used in American Railroad trains here: http://www.be-back-later.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3924

 

Derek

[Laurence Hogg]

The popular bracket used by boaters was a "Mr Green's" a simple "s" scroll then with a single wick oil lamp affixed to the candle holder. These were made by Mr Green in Leicester. The fixing was usually a piece of tube silver soldered to a lamp base.

Alladin mantle lamps will prove too hot to use and all the lamps had some sort of heat sheild above them. I created the "Boatmans cabin" range of lamps based on originals I owned, which now are sadly out of production and BCC/High Line has no stock left. The Mr Green sconce is the far left one in the picture below.

 

Edited September 15, 2010 by Laurence Hogg

[carlt]

Not "correct" but I do like this one:

Ebay clicky

[David Schweizer]

Not "correct" but I do like this one:

Ebay clicky

Yes I saw that one, but I have never been very keen on Marbled Glass founts. It is a very simple bracket and I would be very surprised if it sold at the "buy it now" price. Personally I would not pay more than £25/30 for it, certainly not more than £100.

Edited September 15, 2010 by David Schweizer

[LindisfarneOneDay]

This one's on eBay at the moment.

It's far too frilly for my tastes, but seems to have all the relevant bits.

My link

[carlt]

Yes I saw that one, but I have never been very keen on Marbled Glass founts. It is a very simple bracket and I would be very surprised if it sold at the "buy it now" price. Personally I would not pay more than £25/30 for it, certainly not more than £100.

Yes the fount would go straight back on ebay but I have several nicer ones replace it.

 

The bracket is the elusive bit.

 

No longer having a back cabin to put it in rather reduces the urgency, though, and finding age related salt water tat is far easier.

[Derek R.]

The popular bracket used by boaters was a @Mr Green's@ a simple "s" scroll then with a single wick oil lamp affixed to the candle holder. The fixing was usually a piece of tube silver soldered to a lamp base. Alladin mantle lamps will prove too hot to use and all the lamps had some sort of heat sheild above them. I created the "Boatmans cabin" range of lamps based on originals I owned, which now are sadly out of production and BCC/High Line has no stock left.

 

 

A shame for some, as the 'Leicester' would be the biz. Who was "Mr. Green"?

[David Schweizer]

This one's on eBay at the moment.

It's far too frilly for my tastes, but seems to have all the relevant bits.

My link

Yes Very fancy, but I am not convinced that it a vintage Bracket Lamp as claimed. It looks like a modern reproduction based on an old Piano Sconce design modified to make it look superficailly like a Gas bracket. I seem to remember some lamps like that in the 1990 Christopher Wray catalogue.

 

The Globe is completely wrong, and burner looks like an Eltex greenhouse burner with a modern (incorrect) shade ring. The incorrect globe and burner etc. can easily be replaced, however the starting price of £50 is a bit high. £50 is probably less than what it cost ten years ago, and its current value is probably somewhwere in the region of £25/30.

Edited September 15, 2010 by David Schweizer

[Laurence Hogg]

A shame for some, as the 'Leicester' would be the biz. Who was "Mr. Green"?

Mr Green apparently had a shop near the canal in Leicester and dealt with pianos. He converted the sconces for the boaters. This was relayed to me when we started to make the range of lamps by Joe Gilbert, I had a "Greens" sconce in the back cabin of "Neptune" which came with the boat, so that was used as a pettern (I still have it) to produce the "Leicester lamp". Its so sad all this has gone, we had a great range of products then (1979) which catered for the needs of proper boatmans cabins. Worse is that even if I could get the castings made, all the Birmingham lamp manufacturers are gone!!

[Derek R.]

Thanks Laurence - time for some 'Cottage Industry' start up.

[Speedwheel]

Tucked away on a shelf somewhere at home I have an old Runcorn oil lamp (I think that is the correct name anyway).

 

I am told it is an original from an old boat family and that they were once very common, though I have never seen another one.

 

It has a little knob/thingy attached to the bottom that sits in a candle sconce.

 

It belongs to Malcolm Braine but seems to be on long term loan to me. Not working at the moment but it is in good condition and wouldn't take much to get it going.

 

Will dig it out and take some pics later. It should put it on the boat but it is a bit delicate and I am worried it would get knocked off or the Bolinder would bounce it out of the holder.

[David Schweizer]

Tucked away on a shelf somewhere at home I have an old Runcorn oil lamp (I think that is the correct name anyway).

 

I am told it is an original from an old boat family and that they were once very common, though I have never seen another one.

 

It has a little knob/thingy attached to the bottom that sits in a candle sconce.

 

It belongs to Malcolm Braine but seems to be on long term loan to me. Not working at the moment but it is in good condition and wouldn't take much to get it going.

 

Will dig it out and take some pics later. It should put it on the boat but it is a bit delicate and I am worried it would get knocked off or the Bolinder would bounce it out of the holder.

What you have described is a peg fount. I have never heard the term Runcorn lamp, but it may be a colloquial name based upon a locality where boatmen purchased them, rather like "Bucky" cans or "Measham " teapots.

 

Peg founts are usually quite small and have a brass fitting on the peg with four to six semi-flexible fins protruding outwards which hold the fount firmly in the Sconce cup. I have a very pretty cut glass one in my workshop, but have never got round to aquiring a single sconce for it. Perhaps I should make the effort to complete it and offer it at an extortionate price on Canal World. :lol:

[Speedwheel]

Here we go.

 

The glass/chimney is modern.

 

 

Edit:

 

One more showing it sitting on a nasty modern candle sconce.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Speedwheel

[Derek R.]

What's written on the end of the wick knob Mark? Might give a makers name, or at least of the burner.

Wicks will be available, but the sprockets will need to be centralised and located so they don't wander.

One other tip with oil lamps, never wind the wick up or down when dry, it rips the material up. They need the fuel for lubrication.

 

Old and a little crude, but will do the job!

[Speedwheel]

"Falk's British Make. 3/4 IN"

 

Would that be Falk Stadelmann & Company Ltd?

Edited September 16, 2010 by Speedwheel

[Derek R.]

That will be them.

Ebay item, you will recognise the burner.

 

Base Camp show a Queen Anne burner, and again you will recognise it straight away. Note also the chimney shape and description. Looks like you may have the best chimney for that lamp - a Tram Comet.

 

Base Camp wick index.

 

Falks Stadelmann & Co. The Veritas Lamp Works. That didn't come up - go into 'Publications' then scroll down to the red booklet.

There is a company trading as Falks who sell lamps and fittings, mostly for gas. May not be any connection to the Farringdon Road gang!

 

Another link Pressure Lamps, but a little Falks history, and an excellent site overall.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Derek R.

[David Schweizer]

Speedwheel, your lamp has been cobbled together from a variety of components, most of which never stared lfe as part of an oil lamp, but the end result is still quite impressive. The burner is knackered though, and it would be positively unsafe to use the lamp until it has been replaced. It could be one of several but comes within the general remit of Comet tram lamp burners. The Chimney is a tram Comet and therefore the correct type for the burner, But I agree it is modern and a bit crudely madnufactured. Did you buy it as an oil lamp chimney? It looks suspiciusly like one designed for an electric reproduction.

 

If the burner collar on the fount has a screw thread, I may have a burner that will fit, but if it is a plug fit, the chances of finding a Hinks plug burner are pretty remoete. However all is not lost, you would need to unsolder the burner collar and solder a screwthread replacement on. I am certain I have some of those somewhere. I also have plenty of wick so that should not be a problem.

 

let me know if you need anything.

 

That will be them.

Ebay item, you will recognise the burner.

 

Base Camp show a Queen Anne burner, and again you will recognise it straight away. Note also the chimney shape and description. Looks like you may have the best chimney for that lamp - a Tram Comet.

 

Base Camp wick index.

 

Falks Stadelmann & Co. The Veritas Lamp Works. That didn't come up - go into 'Publications' then scroll down to the red booklet.

There is a company trading as Falks who sell lamps and fittings, mostly for gas. May not be any connection to the Farringdon Road gang!

 

Another link Pressure Lamps, but a little Falks history, and an excellent site overall.

 

 

Falk Stadelmann & Co., Veritas House, Lionel Street, Birmingham, were suppliers of oil lamps and components. Originally a German firm, they later incorporated Veritas, Wright and Butler (c1912), Palmer & Co. of London, W Williams & Son of Birmingham and, by 1933, James Hinks & Son but continued use of the old trade names for some time. Their main warehouse depot was at Veritas House, 83-93 Farringdon Road, London by the late 1930s. They became the largest lamp makers in ther UK and in 1930s the firm employed around 3,000 people. Falk Stadelmann's ceased had trading by the late 1960s and was taken over by Jessel Investments, who sold off all property and ceased manufacturing activities. I could give a lot more info, but I am already performing a good impression of an anorak!

Edited September 16, 2010 by David Schweizer

[Chertsey]

 

Given the comprarative difficulty in obtaining lamp oil or paraffin these days and the various dangers involved there's a lot to be said for electric light in a back cabin with the oil lamp purely for decoration and emergency back up.

 

So far I've not had any trouble getting hold of paraffin for the primus (term being used generically) - success in every old fashioned hardware shop I've tried.

 

Somehow oil lighting, whether pressurised or not, is a lot scarier than using it for cooking. I think I've been scarred by watching Little House on the Prairie at an impressionable age - seemed they were always knocking oil lamps over with their skirts and burning the homestead down. Fortunately I can have electric light - as soon as the dynamo's sorted, anyway.

 

To go off topic slightly, I think the primus (actually a 'Monitor' wickless stove from the fifties), now I've been using it for a season, can generally be counted a success. There have been a couple of frustrating mornings when it's refused to light (always when the need for tea was most desperate) but this always turned out to be due to it having been overfilled. We've now made a nice little dipstick to avoid this happening in future. It is a bit of a fag to light, requiring a completely draught-free environment, patience and timing, but is very efficient once going. With the alternative being either a portable gas appliance which I would feel a lot less safe with, it's done sterling service. I think it's retired for the winter now though, stove going and more hot water than I can use, wonderful porridge and casseroles...

[Derek R.]

Porridge and casseroles - I'm hooked . . .

 

Pre-pack para in 4litre containers is ridiculous price. I've seen it being sold for £9.99, elswhere for £7.50 "as an introductory price" (from a shop who previously sold 'loose' at 95ppl)

There's a garage by Vicarage Rd football ground (Watford) sells by the gallon from a glass dispensor £4.31. Their biggest turnover is during winter when the 'old boys' come in for the greenhouse Eltex heaters. I'll be calling there again.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Derek R.

[Chertsey]

Porridge and casseroles - I'm hooked . . .

 

Pre-pack para in 4litre containers is ridiculous price. I've seen it being sold for £9.99, elswhere for £7.50 "as an introductory price" (from a shop who previously sold 'loose' at 95ppl)

There's a garage by Vicarage Rd football ground (Watford) sells by the gallon from a glass dispensor £4.31. Their biggest turnover is during winter when the 'old boys' come in for the greenhouse Eltex heaters. I'll be calling there again.

Blimey. I've not paid more than 5.99 for 4 litres (from the hardware shops in Atherstone and Rugeley), and reckon it compares favourably to buying gas in small quantities. Always on the lookout for a 'proper' source though and have kept the empty containers accordingly. I rather hope that Turners at Wheaton Aston might do it - does anyone know if they do?

[carlt]

 

It is a bit of a fag to light, requiring a completely draught-free environment, patience and timing, but is very efficient once going. With the alternative being either a portable gas appliance which I would feel a lot less safe with, it's done sterling service.

To stay, briefly, off topic, I use a "Handiware Picnic Stove" which is, basically a biscuit tin with a spirit burner inside. Like a mini Origo.

 

I like meths burners because they provide instant heat with no chance of a flare up and they are simple to light, even in a gale.

 

Edited to add photo...not sure why the pricker is in the shot, though...

Edited September 17, 2010 by carlt

[Speedwheel]

Thanks David and Derek. Very interesting.

 

The burner does have a screw thread on the bottom - not sure of the thread and I have packed it back up and put in the shed but I will drag it out again over the weekend and have another look.

 

I have looked on ebay and their appear to be a lot of Queen Anne burners from the USA.

[Alan Saunders]

Blimey. I've not paid more than 5.99 for 4 litres (from the hardware shops in Atherstone and Rugeley), and reckon it compares favourably to buying gas in small quantities. Always on the lookout for a 'proper' source though and have kept the empty containers accordingly. I rather hope that Turners at Wheaton Aston might do it - does anyone know if they do?

If you happen to be on the K&A the Murco Garage in Ludgershall (~10m south of Burbage) has bulk red diesel, kerosene and paraffin. Kerosene is ~the same price as red diesel, paraffin +10p/litre (maybe 70p?). There are probably other unknown suppliers around the country, a list on CW would be useful. I only have a 'modern' single wick oil lamp but I find paraffin (@ 70p/litre) just as good as 'Parasene' at £4.50+/4 litres or 'Lamp Oil'(£!!/l) from the local Garden Centre(Wyevale). Gone are the days when my local hardware store or garage filled my (gallon, 4.54l) container with Esso Blue or Alladin Pink; 1980 is my most recent recollection.

 

Alan

No connection with the above business. They provided milk, bread and red diesel when all three were unavailable locally during the 2009 freeze.